Mephisto Genetics Simoigets SIP grow ..all time favorites of the mephisto variety

[Organic Sinse]

I know it‘s not pretty but it shows perfectly what‘s happening down in the rez:
View attachment 1315736

The only thing missing is a little ball floating so you can see it from a ways away . Outstanding idea, and super handy. I also think its very valuable to be able to monitor whats happening in the res.
cheers
os

 

[simoiget]

Sunday update..day 38..no issues so far I have been top watering regularly with about a half gallon of h2o.the 2 runts remain..well..runty! But healthy and are starting to set in their flowers a bit

Sam is trying to take over the tent and just growing rapidly and stretching hard.I just love the structure of this plant, just naturally grows into thos awesome Bush with absolutely no lst, just some minor leaf tucking

I'm not sure if she is starting to look a bit hungry? The one pic below shows the lighter colour...but the pic makes it more pronounced than it is. I tried a little avacado bomb just as an experiment.she is growing so fast I worry about being able to keep up with nutrient needs. That is also why I have been top watering to try and get the last top dress active and available for the plant.

Next few weeks should be interesting and I am excited to finish this plant as it has good potential I think.

Tent shot

Sam

Double G

Forgotten cookies

 

[simoiget]

Day 43 update

Tent shot

The Samsquanch is continuing its domination of the tent space. It is really doing well up to now.

In my earlier posts I have explained how since I started growing in Sips I have had explosive growth for the first half of the plants cycle and then have run into a calcium deficiency in early flower that I'm sure has cost me significant yield although the yields and quality have still been very satisfactory I cant help but feel like they could be a bit better!

So I have been watching the Sam og carefully as day 40-50 is when it usually shows.Well it is showing again. I will put a few pics up below.So far tho it looks to be very mild and much less than what I have previously had.the pics below are the extent of it and overall the plant is looking really good! So I am cautiously optimistic that it wont progress too much and will be an improvement. But it is still too early to know for sure.

If it ends up not getting too much worse than I will call that a definite improvement. BUT!.. why did it improve? Was it the fact that I didnt add dolomite and there are still minor signs because of the residual dolomite still in the soil from my previous grows??.. was it the top watering and/or letting the res draw down instead of keeping full??... who knows! And too early too speculate just yet..it still could blow up and be just as bad...but so far the plant is really showing good potential..fingers crossed!!

Couple pics of the runts..its actually a bit of a blessing that they are not monsters as the tent would be very crowded if they were!

Little worker diving back down when I lifted the mulch cover to top water

 

[simoiget]

Update: so there has been some progression of the deficiency since my last post. Overall the plant looks good and is drinking the whole res daily. I feel like it's still doing quite a bit better than my previous grows. In my previous grows when this deficiency started to show it would progress pretty quickly..like close to overnight it would spread through the upper growth.

Regardless, I am a little frustrated to see it return and I would really like to understand why it's happening. I would welcome any one following this thread to chime in with any advice or thoughts.

I will include pics below to try and show what is happening. I believe this is a calcium deficiency. As evidenced by the symptoms and the fact that it always shows in the upper growth of the plant and calcium is an immobile nutrient.

Here is a shot of the whole plant

Below are examples of the symptoms that have worsened over the last days

From my research I think I have sort of narrowed the possible causes down somewhat. It seems that the most common cause of cal deficiency is low ph acidic soil.I dont PH my water, as it comes out of my well/tap at roughly 6.8. My soil is peat based so acidity is possible, but my previous use of dolomite and current use of oyster shell flour should address this.I should be testing my soil ph to really know but I am reluctant to shell out the $ for an accurate soil meter.and I dont believe that run off/ slurry tests are accurate enough to draw a conclusion from.

The 2nd possible cause could be an excess of another nutrient locking cal out. I could see it being a possible excess of mag from my use of dolomite. Any other nutrient exvess does seem unlikely to me as I always try to use my amendments at a reduced rate from recommended. A less is more approach. And I feel like I would see more signs of excess before this shows up, which I dont really see. The plants just do super well up to this same point around day 40-50 and then these symptoms show up fairly suddenly.also this is a big fast growing plant that seems like it should be a pretty heavy feeder.

That brings me to my third theory.. possibly this explosive growth is just so vigorous that I actually am not supplying enough nutrients? My homemade SIPs are only about 7 gallons of soil so its also possible that I just am not supplying the plant with enough cal to meet its needs?? I wouldn't suspect that as,I have a lot of sources of cal in my soil. My previous use of dolomite, current use of oyster shell, gypsum and worm castings. Also the gaia green amendments I use have several sources of cal as well.again tho I dont see any signs of the plants being hungry before this shows up?

Please chime in and let me know any thoughts you might have. It's a real head scratcher for me and I just want to understand why it's happening! I am confident that the plant will still give me a great harvest and as I said earlier it is an improvement over my previous grows.also would you try and address it? In the past I have tried several things to correct it mainly adding more calcium sources through top dress or even using a liquid cal/mag supplement with no improvement and maybe only a little slowing of the progression.

Also, interestingly there is no sign of it in the smaller plants

Thanks everybody for any input you might have

 

[Organic Sinse]

Update: so there has been some progression of the deficiency since my last post. Overall the plant looks good and is drinking the whole res daily. I feel like it's still doing quite a bit better than my previous grows. In my previous grows when this deficiency started to show it would progress pretty quickly..like close to overnight it would spread through the upper growth.

Regardless, I am a little frustrated to see it return and I would really like to understand why it's happening. I would welcome any one following this thread to chime in with any advice or thoughts.

I will include pics below to try and show what is happening. I believe this is a calcium deficiency. As evidenced by the symptoms and the fact that it always shows in the upper growth of the plant and calcium is an immobile nutrient.

Here is a shot of the whole plant

View attachment 1319332

Below are examples of the symptoms that have worsened over the last days

View attachment 1319333

View attachment 1319334

View attachment 1319335

View attachment 1319336


From my research I think I have sort of narrowed the possible causes down somewhat. It seems that the most common cause of cal deficiency is low ph acidic soil.I dont PH my water, as it comes out of my well/tap at roughly 6.8. My soil is peat based so acidity is possible, but my previous use of dolomite and current use of oyster shell flour should address this.I should be testing my soil ph to really know but I am reluctant to shell out the $ for an accurate soil meter.and I dont believe that run off/ slurry tests are accurate enough to draw a conclusion from.

The 2nd possible cause could be an excess of another nutrient locking cal out. I could see it being a possible excess of mag from my use of dolomite. Any other nutrient exvess does seem unlikely to me as I always try to use my amendments at a reduced rate from recommended. A less is more approach. And I feel like I would see more signs of excess before this shows up, which I dont really see. The plants just do super well up to this same point around day 40-50 and then these symptoms show up fairly suddenly.also this is a big fast growing plant that seems like it should be a pretty heavy feeder.

That brings me to my third theory.. possibly this explosive growth is just so vigorous that I actually am not supplying enough nutrients? My homemade SIPs are only about 7 gallons of soil so its also possible that I just am not supplying the plant with enough cal to meet its needs?? I wouldn't suspect that as,I have a lot of sources of cal in my soil. My previous use of dolomite, current use of oyster shell, gypsum and worm castings. Also the gaia green amendments I use have several sources of cal as well.again tho I dont see any signs of the plants being hungry before this shows up?

Please chime in and let me know any thoughts you might have. It's a real head scratcher for me and I just want to understand why it's happening! I am confident that the plant will still give me a great harvest and as I said earlier it is an improvement over my previous grows.also would you try and address it? In the past I have tried several things to correct it mainly adding more calcium sources through top dress or even using a liquid cal/mag supplement with no improvement and maybe only a little slowing of the progression.

Also, interestingly there is no sign of it in the smaller plants

Thanks everybody for any input you might have

I think your real close on your thinking.
#1 low pH soil. That’s usually due to being peat based and not having enough lime.
#2 that’s a possibility if dolomite is your only major calcium source
#3 not enough in the soil is what I suspect. In addition to using lime to buffer the soil pH of peat, the plants do consume lots of calcium. First, my buffering part, I use half dolomite and half oyster shell flour. Calcitic lime would be the equivalent of osf. That puts my buffering part in the proper ratio. More importantly, I use many other amendments quite rich in calcium. Those are fishbone meal, fish meal, crab shell meal, and gypsum. With calcium, the trick is to have many sources that become available at different rates spread out over time. Worm castings/ vermicompost also contains lots of calcium carbonate.
The thing that adds to the confusion, relative to what you read is water quality. Yours is good. Most stuff you read about is based on RO water or acceptable levels of carbonates that tend toward the high side. Luckily you and I have similar really good water, so I not only get it, but have been dealing with it forever.
Bonemeal is the easiest amendment to find everywhere. Mix a couple tablespoons in with a quart or two of castings and top dress it and water it in. The calcium available in the castings is available fast, with the calcium in the bonemeal becoming available a little slower.
Next round, I would be happy to help ya build a soil that will work with your water and sip containers.
cheers
os

 

[simoiget]

I think your real close on your thinking.
#1 low pH soil. That’s usually due to being peat based and not having enough lime.
#2 that’s a possibility if dolomite is your only major calcium source
#3 not enough in the soil is what I suspect. In addition to using lime to buffer the soil pH of peat, the plants do consume lots of calcium. First, my buffering part, I use half dolomite and half oyster shell flour. Calcitic lime would be the equivalent of osf. That puts my buffering part in the proper ratio. More importantly, I use many other amendments quite rich in calcium. Those are fishbone meal, fish meal, crab shell meal, and gypsum. With calcium, the trick is to have many sources that become available at different rates spread out over time. Worm castings/ vermicompost also contains lots of calcium carbonate.
The thing that adds to the confusion, relative to what you read is water quality. Yours is good. Most stuff you read about is based on RO water or acceptable levels of carbonates that tend toward the high side. Luckily you and I have similar really good water, so I not only get it, but have been dealing with it forever.
Bonemeal is the easiest amendment to find everywhere. Mix a couple tablespoons in with a quart or two of castings and top dress it and water it in. The calcium available in the castings is available fast, with the calcium in the bonemeal becoming available a little slower.
Next round, I would be happy to help ya build a soil that will work with your water and sip containers.
cheers
os

@Organic Sinse thank you..your input is appreciated! And I would love to have your help with building a new soil. Although I am somewhat hesitant to start over with my soil as I have been building on this one for awhile now. But at the same time it was my first time building and reusing a LOS and I have learned a lot and part of me likes the idea of starting fresh with a refined approach.

I think my instincts are #3 as well...going with the theory that I simply may not be supplying enough calcium would explain why the smaller plants are not showing the deficiency as they simply don't have the demand for it like the big explosive plants do. It also explains why my previous plants grown in fabric pots with the same soil and same amendments did not show a deficiency. They were not nearly as big as my SIP plants and therefore likely had less of a demand for cal.

I guess I would still be a little surprised tho as all those sources of cal you mentioned are represented in my soil, both amended in the base mix and added through my top dresses. But maybe I just wasn't quite keeping up to the plants needs. Also it's possible that it is a little of #2 and a little of #3. Some excess mag from the dolomite locking out cal...and not enough available in the soil for the needs of the plants?

At any rate I have taken your advice and top dressed some bone meal and EWC today top watered it in well and we will see if that brings an improvement.

 

[Organic Sinse]

@Organic Sinse thank you..your input is appreciated! And I would love to have your help with building a new soil. Although I am somewhat hesitant to start over with my soil as I have been building on this one for awhile now. But at the same time it was my first time building and reusing a LOS and I have learned a lot and part of me likes the idea of starting fresh with a refined approach.

I think my instincts are #3 as well...going with the theory that I simply may not be supplying enough calcium would explain why the smaller plants are not showing the deficiency as they simply don't have the demand for it like the big explosive plants do. It also explains why my previous plants grown in fabric pots with the same soil and same amendments did not show a deficiency. They were not nearly as big as my SIP plants and therefore likely had less of a demand for cal.

I guess I would still be a little surprised tho as all those sources of cal you mentioned are represented in my soil, both amended in the base mix and added through my top dresses. But maybe I just wasn't quite keeping up to the plants needs. Also it's possible that it is a little of #2 and a little of #3. Some excess mag from the dolomite locking out cal...and not enough available in the soil for the needs of the plants?

At any rate I have taken your advice and top dressed some bone meal and EWC today top watered it in well and we will see if that brings an improvement.

I just don’t think you are getting screwed by extra mag. I really only see that happen with synthetics and salts, unless the water source has extremely high mag and low calcium. That combo is pretty rare. I also use Langebenite aka sulpomag, and I have just never had an issue. For years I just used dolomite, it’s only been 3 or so years since I switched to 50/50 dolomite/ oyster shell flower.
Once my plants are in full flower, they get top dressed every week with vermicompost that has had fishbone meal, oyster shell flower, and crab shell meal being worked for 6 months, in addition to refreshing those amendments right when I apply it. Each top dress doesn’t have a lot of those amendments. It probably works out to a tablespoon or half a tablespoon each amendment per quart top dress.
Absolutely top dress bone meal sayings ASAP. You should get some castings mixed with bonemeal ahead of time too so that the calcium is available even faster, and then use that for a weekly top dress Next week etc.
Compared to a typical mix, I run high amounts of calcium. Way more than a store bought brand would dare include in a mix (because they are based on typical acceptable high levels of carbonates). There is a giant Posse out there that run my soil and vermicompost mix and they have issues. We do tweak it for folks with high carbonates in their water, but that’s not where you are at.
cheers
os

 

[Organic Sinse]

Another thing that will help with the availability of calcium is having a sufficient number of composting worms like red wigglers in your container. While microbes and plant exudates contribute to helping make calcium available. Nothing works quite as well as having lime, oyster shell flower, crab meal, or bone meal pass through the gut of a worm. When these are passed through the gut of a worm after being consumed as grit for the gizzard, they liberate the calcium into a form that is available to the plants almost immediately. It does require an acidic reaction to deconstruct the amendments into available calcium, and this may be the only way to ‘unlock’ the potential that’s in your soil in a fast enough time frame. A soil pH around 6-6.5 takes a long time for this process to happen on its own. As few as a dozen composting worms would make a difference in your sized container.
Just another thought I wanted to throw out there.
cheers
os

 

[Fermented_Fruitz]

As the good ol homey MrOldBoy always said,
“Worms are nature’s best gardeners!!!” I toss em in my pots always and next run instead of earthbox I’m gonna be using homemade knf inputs and I ordered some grassroots 10gal living soil pots and will be tossing handful of worms into each! They def help on many levels so always have a place in my garden!

 

[Sour D]

As the good ol homey MrOldBoy always said,
“Worms are nature’s best gardeners!!!” I toss em in my pots always and next run instead of earthbox I’m gonna be using homemade knf inputs and I ordered some grassroots 10gal living soil pots and will be tossing handful of worms into each! They def help on many levels so always have a place in my garden!

You gonna do the Horizon soil method? Thought about trying it in the sip. Ya know- the 15 gal grassroots was the only plant that didn't come down with yellow fever. Been thinking about a 2x4 bed for my bedroom.