Outdoor Shadowbuck's go at an outdoor grow

[Shadowbuck]

Ok so let's talk about nutes...

NUTRIENTS:

General Organics GO Box
From: worldwideweb
Price: Like 25usd (not including shipping)

So basically, for the price, this was one hell of a deal. I had been researching bottled "natural/organic" nutes for a while and these seemed to get mostly positive reviews (but they have their weaknesses). Then when I stumbled upon them online for around 40bucks with shipping I went ahead and snagged 'em up. That was about the price for just one liter of Part A of some companies' nutes. Money talks and colorful full page ads in grow magazines (bullshit) walks as far as I'm concerned.

Couple things worth mentioning before we go forward... Yes I'm aware that these are kind of weak feeding when plants are in full on flower/swell mode(according to some reviews in cyberspace). That's ok with me tho as I will be amending my soil/substrate a lil bit with more stuff that will provide nutrients (more on that later). Even so I'm also aware that these will almost certainly not be enough for the entire grow for all plants (11 if all survive germination/seedling stage). This is also ok for now as I see this "GO box" as more of a trial/sampler pack of the GO line. I will use it up and either order more of what individual products my plants seem to like or just order another GO box to finish the grow with before I run out.

Contained in the GO box are the following:

16oz BioThrive Grow- self explanatory
16oz BioThrive Bloom- also self explanatory
8oz CaMg+ - Calmag supplement
8oz Bio Root- Root stimulator
8oz Bio Weed- cold processed seaweed
8oz Bio Bud- bloom booster
8oz Bio Marine- enzymatically digested squid protein
8oz Diamon Black- leonardite/humic acid supplement

That's pretty much their entire line all in a 5"X10" box for under 50usd. I'm probably going to use all of them (as in not omit anything), or at least try all of them when it's appropriate to do so. I can't speak to results (which is what matters) but I will go ahead and say that if I only had a few beans and was doing something small or an indoor organic project it would be awfully hard to beat this offering from GO for that kinda money. I won't go into great detail beyond that as far as ingredients and ratios (you can look that up), but I will say that they seem legit. I will mention some of the swanky ingredients listed such as glacial rock powder, alfalfa meal, seaweed, sugar cane and many other natural (but processed) additives. Also GO claims everything is veganic (besides the marine/squid obviously), so if that kind of thing floats your boat then so be it.

Oh and yes, OF COURSE, I opened, inspected, and smelled every bottle upon arrival. A lot of people say they STINK! But me personally, I don't find them that offensive...because that earthy, fungus-y, shit smell tells me they are full of good stuff for my plants. In fact, If you're having a bad day, and wish you could just go someplace warm and lay on the beach somewhere and let your cares float away with the tide... Just open a bottle of GO BioWeed. The stuff smells EXACTLY like high tide churning up a big frothy brew of seaweed and briny seafoam. mmm occeeaaan (in my best homer simpson voice). But no really it seems to be some good stuff.

Just a quick curiousity for further reference...
I wonder if some of the people who said this stuff was kinda weak in strength were just used to chem nutes. It was my understanding that chem nutes were already super refined in a lab and chemically chelated (the 'good' ones anyways) and this produced a quicker availability to the plant straight from the bottle. Whereas organic/natural nutes, while having natural nutrient sources, are actually less biologically available to the plant straight from the bottle... and as such their performance is directly related to the amount of beneficial microbes living in the substrate that break down and/or chelate the nutes into the basic nutrient compounds that are then bio-available to the plant. THUS being less instantaneous compared to chem nutes and thus seeming to be "weak" in comparison.

Maybe a slightly different feeding approach (from typical chem feeding schedules) would be beneficial. Such as maybe feeding certain things a little sooner than would be typically fed using chem nutes, so by the time the plant does start needing certain nutrients, the bennies would have already had time to break down said nutes and they would already be bio-available in the soil for the plant. Or maybe I'm full of shit and don't know what I'm talking about lol. Either way let me know your opinions and thoughts or if anyone has any suggestions or experiences with this line lemme know as I'd be interested to hear what you have to say!:thumbs:

That's all for now guys. Next time I will either talk about pots or soil...not sure which but I havent decided what kind of pots I'm gonna use yet...and I've pretty much already settled on what soil I'm going to use.

Until next time,
Peace
-Shadowbuck

 

[maffro]

Thanks maffro! I appreciate ur input. That's what I've been hearing that the TD's are a bit of a long grow and a long show outdoors for autos. This grow will occur just slightly south of lat 50...and germination will be taking place WAY before june. Hoping to be out there by the second week of may...possibly sooner if it appears that nature will allow it. So germination will take place 2-3 weeks'ish' before I'm gambling on making a break for the wilderness. If you don't mind me asking; What were some of ur specs? pots, holes, or bags? I'm having some difficulty deciding on what grow container/type pot/hole to go with. I like the simplicity of poly bags but they worry me for drainage/aeration...especially if I'm gonna be partially or completely burying the bags in holes. I have some 3 gal black hard pots on hand as well (free is always an incentive). We can write off smart pots and air pots as options for this grow (I do love airpots tho) as it would blow my current budget.

EDIT: How big did ur ladies get at ur lat? yield?

My Tds where in pots, not big ones maybe 2 gallon then tiered into 3 gallon buckets/ mop buckets, they yielded maybe 20grams on average but i had one that was in a smaller pot and i lsded her and kept her in a window till way into flowering then put her out and she yielded more but she didnt have the battering the others did by insects and rain etc. lost lots of branches to ants and the like and had some mould too - the weather was the worst on record around here and still 20gs per plant ! Probably didnt feed them that much either and used cheap soil. Dont think they got above a meter but its very possible they will with better sun and feeds.
For my photoperiod plants i use 70 litre grow bags and use a small hole then stand em up with logs n rocks supporting, i then transplant into them. I also put the grow bag into an old inside out grow bag to add camo and stregnth, i then stab holes for drainage. a 60-70 litre grow bag could easily be cut in half to accomodate autos.

 

[Shadowbuck]

Hmm...that's interesting maffro. I have these 3 gal (or 3ish) plastic pots on hand. Do you think they would be big enough? I have heard 3 gals can be a real pain sometimes as they dry out quick during hot spells and can lead to bound up/circled roots in longer season plants (like a 100+day TD). And since I'm gonna be at least partially burying, if not completely buying them in the ground, (which is mostly clay below 5 inches) I worry about drainage issues. The alternative I guess would be I order some 5 gal polybags (drainage issue would be the same if buried) as they are in my price range. I want to get some decent yields but not have massive trees (tryna be stealthy wit it). I also did some more recon of my spot yesterday and i found a good patch of younger briars about 1-1.5m tall to plant in (would be perfect for the blumatics as they would be completely concealed but still get plenty of sun). Anybody else have some suggestions for what kind of container to use? Honestly I'm beginning to wonder about just putting big enough holes in the ground and lining them with like 10gal black trash bags and pokin a bunch of holes in the bottom...thoughts? I worry about planting directly in the ground with or without a liner as I don't want weeds chokin out my weed and the briars I know for a fact have invasive roots and would find there way into my plants substrate once I start dumping nutes in the ground.

 

[Shadowbuck]

Quick update about the bluematics. Herbies emailed me today with new shipping info...and they are gonna send me 4 free(instead of two) bluematics for the inconvienence. So if all goes well I will have a total of 5 bluematics! That's pretty cool of them huh:thumbs:. Gonna go do some soil shopping today. I'm debating between just buying some premixed organic promix (the ult. org. in the green bag) or making my own simple mix. The only prob with making my own is the damn perlite is so expensive around here (compared to everything else in the mix). I guess it just all depends what kind of mood I'm in while I'm shopping around and what kinda deals I can find. I will let u guys know what happens lol.

 

[Shadowbuck]

SOIL:

Ok so yesterday I went and did a little bit of soil shopping. I picked up a bag of the promix ultimate organic potting soil (green bag). I figured for as cheap as it was there was no harm in grabbin a bag just to try and if it seemed ok then I'd start my seeds in it later on. Yes it has the MYCORISE (TM) or whatever stuff in it.....more on that later....

To truly get my hands dirty with this stuff and kinda get a feel for it, I picked up some watermelon seeds and styrofoam cups to try with this stuff. I figured I'd germ them and see what happens and see how a 1 dollar pack of watermelon seeds react to the stuff. Honestly so far i'm pretty satisfied/borderline impressed with it. The texture is pretty good...yea it does have the occasional small twig in it here or there, but its probably about 95% nice, consistent, peat based potting mix. It's pretty fluffy so it does compress a little bit with initial watering (states on the bag to moisten before use). Runoff is a rich chocolate brown color. Overall I can't see me having any issues starting my seeds in this stuff. Not mulchy, or rocky, or woody in any way other than the occasional odd ball piece of twig. Doesn't seem too rich for seedlings, and when I stuck my hand deep down in the middle of the bag it was a pleasant, cool, earthy feeling...not muddy, mulchy, or warm (hot soil i.e. very rich in organic matter and amendments will sometimes feel warm to the touch from the biological decomposition goin on...cause it's not done 'cooking'...which is an old school/wives tale way of making sure the soil is not too hot for seedlings...doesn't always work tho lol).

As for the MYCORISE stuff... A lot of people make mention to it being in some of the promix products but don't know much more about it other than it must be some kind of beneficial microbe or something. Well I am going to explain to everyone here EXACTLY what this stuff is and what it does (as I just recently had an aha! moment the other day and found out for myself)....

The MYCORISE (TM) is just a proprietary trade name promix uses for an injection of the beneficial fungi Mycorrhizae. More specifically the type of mycorrhizae that promix uses (at least in the ult org mix) is an endomycorrhizae and the exact species used is Glomus Intraradices. It just so happens I read something the other day that is pertinent to this topic...:scope:

-Respectfully taken from pg 26-27 of Issue 19 2013 edition of CANNAtalk magazine (kinda long but good info):

Mycorrhizae are fungi that establish a symbiotic relationship with the roots of the plants in order to develop. Some edible fungi, including the extremely rare and valuable truffle, are mycorrhizae fungi that establish symbiotic relationships with the roots of different species, primarily hazel and oak. Depending on the way in which they colonize the root system, they can be classified as endomycorrhizae and ectomycorrhizae. In ectomycorrhizae, the mycelium only grows externally, surrounding the surface of the root or at most penetrating between the cells in the surface layers.

As secondary roots grow from these colonized roots, they are also enveloped in the mycelium of the fungus. The plant can use the mycelium, which extends beyond its root system, to gather nutrients lying beyond its reach.

In the case of the endomycorrhizae, the process of colonization involves penetrating the cells. There are various types of endomycorrhizae, but the most important ones from an agricultural point of view are the vesicular-arbuscular mycorrhizae or VAM. They include Glomus, Gigaspora, Acaulospora, and Sclerocystis.

In the symbiotic relationship, the plant provides the fungus with sugar from photoassimilates and the mycorrhizae provides nutrients which the plant either cannot assimilate itself or can only produce in very small quantities.

Phytoremediation refers to the use of plants to eliminate toxic substances from the soil. Mycorrhizae fungi have been used to promote these plants' capacity to absorb certain toxic elements or aid in its distribution through the plant. It has been shown, for example, that the symbiosis of the Glomus mycorrhizae with the roots of the hemp plant helps in the translocation of toxic metals from the roots to the shoots.

Ok I'm done regurgitating info all over the place lol. But long story short its rather interesting, eh? Now I know that hemp and cannabis are completely different (but similar) species but; Not sure what to think about possible toxic metals going from the soil to my 'shoots' (buds) lol. But the important thing to take from this is that the Mycorise (TM) pre-injected in the promix is an endomycorrhizae that provides the plant with nutrients (that the plant could otherwise not use) in exchange for sugar from the plant. Cool stuff :thumbs:

So anyways I'm overall happy with the stuff. Doesn't have near enough nutes to be used alone for an entire grow (even states on the bag that using a complete fertilizer regimen is recommended), but I think it would make a great base for a DIY mix or supersoil. And that's exactly my plans for a few days from now...

I'm gonna do a lil more research on soil recipes, but in general I think I'm gonna make something along the lines of:

1- 2cuft compressed bail (3.8 cuft loose) of premier hort peat
1- 1cuft bag of the ult org promix
1- 1cuft bag of some cow manure/compost humus
1- 1cuft bag of mushroom compost (if i can find it)
1- 1cuft bag of perlite
Some Lime (unknown how much I will need yet til I actually sit down and do the math)

Now I don't know if that will be enough perlite (the ult org has a fair amount of perlite in it too) but that's a rough guestimate ratio/recipe there of what I'm thinking bout using. I'm not planning on adding a bunch of guanos or castings directly in the mix as I don't really need a full season, no nutes needed super soil, but rather a good, solid and fertile mix to fill holes with. I'm sure it should have a good amount of nutrition in it as is. And I have the GO box to try out as well so I should be ok nute wise at least to get me started for the first month or two.

If anybody would like to chime in on that above soil recipe or tell me where I might be goin wrong or suggest I do or try anything or adjust a ratio somewhere then please post it here and let me know. Or if anybody has a good idea of how much lime to use lemme know (save me the time plz lol). This is my first true attempt at an outdoor grow and I'm trying to use all the resources (you guys!) I have available to me. :cough:

 

[maffro]

Theres a cool vid on utube where an award winning welsh veg grower recomends mycrozie(?) To snoop diggy dawg ! Old boy even had a smoke with him !
I using root grow this year, will let u know how it goes

 

[gradolabs]

Between the promix and go box, you should be straight - long as you don't run out. There's two websites you should check out. One is plants that produce dot com or whatever - I'll post both url's but first an explanation. They sell all sorts of dirt cheap nutes like Sea Grow's 4-26-26, a turnkey solution for autos. People have grown from start to finish with this one ammendment. The next one is discount advanced nutrients dot com. I think they sell all AN products at rediculously reduced prices - a few members here picked up a couple liters of grow bloom and micro on the cheap. If you're in the market for inexpensive nutes, these two places would be my first stop.

http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/retail/Fert_Nutrients_Cannabis.html
http://www.discountadvancednutrients.com/

 

[gradolabs]

And don't neglect to research any of the TLO/super soil recipes here on AFN - some of the hardcore growers and breeders swear by a good TLO since they need hundred of cubic feet of it, and they don't want to pay a ton for it. Feed the myco and the roots they say, not what's above ground. Also there's a really good soil pH probe called the accurate 8 soil pH and moisture meter - I think it's $50 USD but once again, hardcore growers who know trust that and nothing else to guage their soil pH.

 

[Shadowbuck]

Thanks gradolabs! One of the things i really need an expert opinion on is my rough draft soil mix in the above post on soil. I've read tons of TLO and super soil recipes. Which is how I kinda came up with the above ratio. But i need somebody with some soil exp to examine that ratio and let me know if should work (and gimme a lil instruction on the lime). I'm gonna use the promix straight from the bag for the seedlings. But in an attempt to save money I'm gonna try to make a suitable mix to fill my 12 or 13 3-4 gal sized holes i have dug in the ground to save cost. I think that whole mix should be around 8 or 9 cuft total which would be almost about perfect for my needs. And the cost would only be about 25-30 bucks as opposed to about 60+ for that much promix ultimate organic. See what I'm sayin? Here's the current ratio again for quick reference.

1- 3.8 cu ft bail of premier horticulture peat
1- 1 cu ft bag of promix ultimate organic
1- 1 cu ft bag of cow manure/compost humus mix
1- 1 cu ft bag of mushroom compost
1- 1 cu ft bag of perlite
Lime (dolomite i believe is what i have onhand) - but im unfamiliar with how much lime to add to ^ amount of mix
I MAY add a lil bit (gal or two) of some rich leaf compost I could dig from a nearby tree row....(buried a dead animal in it last year and stuff was pretty black and rich and im sure full of microbes).

I just want somebody thats made up some homemade before to lemme know if those ratios are acceptable or if any foreseeable problems may arise such as not enough perlite or compacting issues or whatever. Kinda just proofread my homework for me LOL. It's not really the whole nutrient content that I'm worried about down the road (I'll just buy some more nutes if I have to), its more the consistency, drainage, compaction of my planned basic mix ratio I need advice with.

Those are good links for some cheap nutes tho thanks!:smokebuds:

 

[Shadowbuck]

Hey guys, sorry its been a lil while as I've been busy gathering soil supplies among other things. And helping out a lot of peeps online here with stuff if its something I can help with. So quick update. I'm stil waiting on the rest of the bluematics. But they are on the way and tracking hasn't indicated anything out of the ordinary. If I had to guess they would probably be here monday.

I also mixed up my soil that I'm gonna use to fill my holes I've started digging at the grow site (ive got four dug so far...only 9 more to go...assuming all my seeds germ).
Here's the soil mix I went with:

SOIL:

2 cuft compacted bail of Premier horticulture (the promix people) peat
1 cuft Promix Ultimate organic (green bag) potting mix
1 cuft (roughly...it was about 40lb bag) cow manure...NOT manure/humus mix
1 cuft mushroom compost
1 cuft (roughly...it was 18liter bag) perlite

Mixed and mixed and mixed some more using the flat side of a garden rake on a big tarp. Then watered it all in with just under 2 gal of water. To the water I added:

1tsp unsulfured molasses
2tsp G.O. grow
2tsp " " bloom
1/2tsp " " bioweed
1tsp " " biomarine
1tsp " " calmag
1Tbl " " diamond black
1tsp " " bioroot

(so basically a really light feed of everything in my GO box but the biobud. + molasses)
The result was a beautifully earthy, moist, fluffy mound of potting mix as good as anything from a bag that I've seen (at least texture/consistency wise)

Why did I add the nutes at all? I figured it wouldn't hurt anything by having that light a dose in there and I'm sure the microbes will enjoy the variety of grub to break down, feast upon, and get freaky in (reproduce/colonize) LOL...(see u guys already got me into the whole 'feed the soil not the plant' philosophy )

So I mixed all that up yesterday and today I'm gonna go check the ph and add the lime.

Stuff is starting to come together now and all eyes are on the weather report and mother nature. A rough guesstimate will have me germing seeds in around a week. Stay tuned.

Peace
-Shadowbuck