Grow Mediums Seymour's 'Think Different' subthread off-topic discussions

[DubV]

That would be awesome Red Eye! The other thing I have noticed with cal/mg issues with led is that certain strains are more prone to it than others. For example I have 5 different strains going right now that only 3 show any signs of cal/mg issues. My pineapple express from G13 is the worst but it is under control. So why is it that certain strains are more prone than others?

 

[Trifid]

if you grow a plant in soil and you hit the flowering stage plants will naturually yellow as they go further into the end of the life cycle, basically what is taking place is the plants need for higher phophorus and potassium increases and the need for magnesium drops slightly, the difference in hydroponically grown plants is you can actually counter balance the magnesium uptake by offering them more of it in the flowering cycle...

Seymour, I'm not sure if i follow you here - the processes involved in plant senescence and leaf abscission go far beyond the scope of simple macro-nutrients. You cannot simply force micro-nutrients into the plant on demand regardless of your culture method. The plants will selectively uptake nutrient materials at all stages of development as and when they are required. This is communicated by the complex signalling/feed back mechanism involving the unison between the soil/aquatic chemistry and the plant's developmental hormones.

 

[seymour-buds]

i dont think its different strains react differently i think its a case of how dialed in on there feed you actually are that makes a difference to how much sign of cal/mag def they will show

if youur feeding a plant and she is within her maximum uptake of nutrient the onset will be slower than if you are underfeeding an aggresive feeding plant if that makes sense lol

 

[seymour-buds]

if you grow a plant in soil and you hit the flowering stage plants will naturually yellow as they go further into the end of the life cycle, basically what is taking place is the plants need for higher phophorus and potassium increases and the need for magnesium drops slightly, the difference in hydroponically grown plants is you can actually counter balance the magnesium uptake by offering them more of it in the flowering cycle...

Seymour, I'm not sure if i follow you here - the processes involved in plant senescence and leaf abscission go far beyond the scope of simple macro-nutrients. You cannot simply force micro-nutrients into the plant on demand regardless of your culture method. The plants will selectively uptake nutrient materials as and when they are required by complex signalling/feed back mechanisms that are mediated by the soil/aquatic chemistry and the plant's senescence hormones.

ok mate stick a plant in soil and see how long it last before it goes yellow due to the fact that it doesnt have enough nutrients in there to sustain its growth, by adding the nutrients the plant requires and the in the right ratios the plant will go on growing, if there isnt enough of 1 nutrioent elemenet available the plant will start drawing it from itself and start to show signs of deficeincy also the flip side is if you have to much of any specific nutrient it can also show signs of a deficieny but as an experiencd grower you should be able to tell from the signs that the plant is exhibiting

obviously im cut from a different cloth and grow in hydro just cause of the overall control i have, plants will use different n-p-k depending what stage of the grow you are in, in vegative stage plants will use more nitrogen and less of this in flower so the feeding ratios have to switch, if for instance you are underfeeding a plant you will start to see signs appearing the same goes for deficiencies, you counter act this by either increasing the the amount of magnesium if its a mag def etc etc to fix the problem, obviously this goes deeper still and could be due to a ph imbalance and you are growing out of the incorrect range but im speaking from a fully dialed in system where everything is perfect except for the plants feeding requirements

also you have boosters which you can use in flowering which is like giving the plant steroids, it keeps the plants wanting more for longer periods of time, i use carbo-load which excites the plants and kinda makes them hyper like giving a kid sweets the sugar content makes them over-active but in order for you to sustain high levels of activity you need to increase the amount of other nutrients that they are calling for at the same time

 

[MrN]

two great minds going at it pouring out loads of info...i'm loving!!both of you have great pointers in your post!thanks you guys!:thumbs:

 

[Trifid]

goes yellow due to the fact that it doesnt have enough nutrients in there to sustain its growth, by adding the nutrients the plant requires and the in the right ratios the plant will go on growing, if there isnt enough of 1 nutrioent elemenet available the plant will start drawing it from itself and start to show signs of deficeincy also the flip side is if you have to much of any specific nutrient it can also show signs of a deficieny but as an experiencd grower you should be able to tell from the signs that the plant is exhibiting..

This is not strictly true. Numerous studies in modern and classical literature have revealed that in fact, most soils are highly abundant in mineral and macro-nutrient content. If this was not the case, natural soils would be quickly depleted in the biosphere - geological evidence demonstrates that this in fact only really occurs on average every 90 thousand years. From my understanding, the abundance of the nutritional requirements are often not the limiting factor involved with plant growth deficiencies, but rather their reduced availability due to undesirable changes in the soil/root-zone chemistry. Developmental transitions in the plant are controlled directly by the plant's internal bio-chemistry and it's interpretation of the environmental parameters and can be influenced to a minor effect by external (usually physical or hormonal) means but these most often manifest as an adaptability rather than an enhancement. Your LED auto-mazar is very impressive btw Incredible quality there, don't know how i missed this one! +rep

I'm planning on switching over to the LED soon, gotta love the NASA engineering hehe..

 

[seymour-buds]

goes yellow due to the fact that it doesnt have enough nutrients in there to sustain its growth, by adding the nutrients the plant requires and the in the right ratios the plant will go on growing, if there isnt enough of 1 nutrioent elemenet available the plant will start drawing it from itself and start to show signs of deficeincy also the flip side is if you have to much of any specific nutrient it can also show signs of a deficieny but as an experiencd grower you should be able to tell from the signs that the plant is exhibiting..

Numerous studies in modern literature have revealed that in fact, most soils are highly abundant in mineral and macro-nutrient content. From my understanding, the abundance of the nutritional requirements are often not the limiting factor involved with plant growth deficiencies, but rather their reduced availability due to undesirable changes in the soil/root-zone chemistry. Developmental transitions in the plant are controlled directly by the plant's internal bio-chemistry and it's interpretation of the environmental parameters and can be influenced to a minor effect by external (usually physical or hormonal) means but these most often manifest as an adaptability rather than an enhancement. Your LED auto-mazar is very impressive btw Incredible quality there, don't know how i missed this one! +rep

I'm planning on switching over to the LED soon, gotta love the NASA engineering hehe..

lol this is exactly what i have just said, it doesnt matter what medium you grow in the plants uptake of nutrients is always gonna have an effect on the composition of the medium, in hydro when a plant takes on feed this will have an impact on the ph and once the ph goes out of range what happens ??

the plants can no longer get acsess to the nutrient they need to sustain growth and also if the ph remains stable in teh soil the plants will use up all the available nutrients that are avaibale once the nutrients have gone the plant has no food to continue growth and starts to pull on its own reserves to keep going, but thats not the point im trying to make here

my point is that plants grown under l.e.d lights show signs of needing extra cal/mag it doesnt matter what base nutrient you start with wether it be soil or hydro growers who use l.e.d lights always end up supplimenting them at some point of the grow

wasnt it nasa who bought hps onto the scene aswell ?

 

[Trifid]

plants will use different n-p-k depending what stage of the grow you are in, in vegative stage plants will use more nitrogen and less of this in flower so the feeding ratios have to switch

I value your opinion here and your view is well established in cannabis horticultural circles and the existing classical literature, but my recent examinations of auto-flowering plant-tissues using GC and solid-phase micro extraction do not follow this trend. The results indicate that the nitrogen requirements during the flowering phase are in fact more-or-less equivalent to the requirements during the vegitative phase. We are developing an interesting discussion here, thanks for sharing your experience

:thread:

wasnt it nasa who bought hps onto the scene aswell ?

I'm not sure actually, but it wouldn't surprise me though haha..
Oh yea, we have the mylar to thank them for too huh?

 

[seymour-buds]

plants will use different n-p-k depending what stage of the grow you are in, in vegative stage plants will use more nitrogen and less of this in flower so the feeding ratios have to switch

I value your opinion here and your view is well established in cannabis horticultural circles and the existing classical literature, but my recent examinations of auto-flowering plant-tissues using GC and soil-phase surface extraction do not follow this trend. My results are clearly indicating that the nitrogen requirements during the flowering phase are in fact more-or-less equivalent to the requirements during the vegitative phase. We are developing an interesting discussion here, thanks for sharing your experience

:thread:

can i ask what lights you are performing these tests under ??

obviously growing is evolving and im into par spectrum and full spectrum lights so it would be great if you are experimenting under these growing conditions

 

[Trifid]

can i ask what lights you are performing these tests under ??

These were derived under dual spectrum, compact florescent light - you're right i'd like to run a side-by-side next for a far-blue/far-red comparison.. I'm still in the process of evaluating and presenting the findings. The objective here is to conduct plant-tissue analysis and cannabinoid profiling of various auto-strains of interest to reveal their specific nutritional requirements at various stages of growth and under various methods of culture. It is likely that the various gene-types will have unique nutritional profiles - i'm hoping that they will fall into a series of classifications that can be used to identify a particular nutritional regimen.