Sativa, Indica, Ruderalis - Is it all BS?

[jdm61]

Smart girl with an unlimited supply of weed? How the hell did you ever let that one get away.

I thought it occurred in Traverse City Michigan at the Glacier Dome ice arena, November 19th, 1975. I wasn't driving, got a call at home from a girl, I was 17 at the time and she asked me to go right then, my parents said go which was odd. Bought tickets at the door with no line. Stage set in the center of the arena on the ice. It was freezing inside. Rush was on tour at the time playing small venues and a bunch of ice arenas. But they were also doing two shows on consecutive days in some towns in big arenas. Caress of Steel tour. https://www.rush.com/tour/caress-of-steel/

The girl is a professor at an Indiana University now, well published, I believe a child psychology Phd. Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana. She was my dealer in high school.

 

[jdm61]

Mercury was about ready to drop Rush after Caress of Steel. In hindsight, it’s a very good thing that they just did 2112 as perhaps their last hurrah instead of try to produce singles like the record company wanted them to do. There is a very interesting story. Quite different from most of their contemporaries

 

[Doug58]

Smart girl with an unlimited supply of weed? How the hell did you ever let that one get away.

She was a super brain. She has even written columns published in the New York Times. She also wanted to jump my bones for some unknown reason. She was supposed to supply me with a Thai stick the night she sold me the Colombian instead. Most of my suppliers in the 70's were females. My life at that time was right out of The 70's Show and Dazed and Confused. The parties, everyone in school smoked weed, drinking age was 18. I was the smart kid stoner who partied with everyone. Town had an old hippie woman on the outskirts who ran a head shop. One of my friends was the only Hispanic in town whose brother was a Cheech Marin/Tommy Chong clone. He introduced me to weed.

 

[Highstreet]

Strong edibles always made me very goofed didnt matter what strain i used ... same effect heavy goofed. So ure last staments is correct by my experiance.

Comming from SA and not having access to many strains untill it was legalized, I would always grow what was in our bag weed. TK, Swazi, Durban poisen and a few others, these to me were all sativas native plants that thrive in a hot climate. Distinguished mostly by tall thin leaved plant that does not get very compact heads, but smells extremely strong full of sugar and makes sweeet smoke and very high high lol. Like cloud nine high.
Now that we have more strains it is very easy to notice a more indica" traits like big fan leaves shorter stouter plants, denser heads and not as sweet smoke but a complete diff terpene profile like cheese for example. This I aways thought was cause those strains came from milder colder climates so the fatter leaves would catch more sun instead of sativa longer thinner leaves that get almost too much sun here in africa.
Ruderals has always ment its been bred with a plants that autoflowers. Wish they would give more details tho that just ruderals.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

The taxonomy of cannabis has been improperly classified for a long time apparently.


"Since the 1970s, cannabis has been divided into three sub-species (often confused as different species), C. indica, C. sativa, C. ruderalis, with ruderalis largely being considered ‘wild cannabis,’ not fit for medicinal or recreational uses. A common lay-persons distinction is between marijuana, which is bred for high cannabinoid content, and hemp, which is bred for industrial uses like fiber.

Any of the three subspecies can be bred as a hemp or marijuana plant. John McPartland, a researcher affiliated with GW Pharmaceuticals, presented a study at the 2014 meeting of the International Cannabis Research Society, proposing a new nomenclature for cannabis. The original report on O’Shaughnessy’s contains more information than I can reproduce here, and has a wonderful chart; it is definitely worth your time to read.

It seems Richard Evans Schultes, the man who created the original taxonomy for cannabis in the 1970s, misidentified a C. afghanica plant as a C. indica plant. That one mistake began 40 years of confusion which has only been dispelled by McPartland’s research this year.

McPartland was the first researcher to look at the genetic markers on the three subspecies of cannabis using the plant’s genome to conclusively identify where it originated. He also proved conclusively that they are all the same species, just different subspecies. As it turns out, C. sativa should have been identified as C. indica, because it originated in India (hence indica). C. indica should have been identified as C. afghanica, because it actually originated in Afghanistan. Finally, it seems that C. ruderalis is actually what people mean when they refer to C. sativa."


In Colorado, medical dispensaries are starting to focus on terpenes and cannabinoids versus "just THC." Cresco Labs (and there was a study done by a university in Spain as well, I have the link somewhere in my bookmarks) state the difference between sativa and indica is literally the presence/lack-of and concentration of the terpene Myrcene.

"Myrcene, the most common terpene in cannabis, is known to help patients sleep, battling conditions like anxiety and insomnia. If present in a specific strain in a volume greater than 0.5 percent, the strain is considered an indica. If the amount of myrcene is under one half of one percent, then the strain is deemed a sativa."

High myrcene? Couch lock.
Low myrcene? Less couch lock, more room for all the other crazy shit cannabinoids and other terpenes play part in.

Further, I've seen multiple lab techs in Colorado state that CONSUMING negates the notion of sativa/indica completely (basically consumption creates a universal-high feeling) because of the way it metabolizes in your liver. If that's true, there is no difference between a sativa edible versus an indica edible (other than marketing to sell the product.)

What do you think, AFN?

Is there a question in this?

Ok on soap box:
Relevant to a botanist on so many levels. The information may be useful to a breeder. A cannabis farmer such as myself should be aware of it. I have long subscribed to the theory of terpene content over the botanical names of plants or strains to foretell a type of medical use or high. Information provided by a breeder is just that. It may have nothing to do with the dominant genetics that get expressed or not in that seed in front of you. The only thing with true meaning and effect are the life that comes forth from that seed. All of the other gobbledygook is simply academic to me and somebody else will tend to it.
Off the box.

 

[Blu_tri]

The cannabis mutation began millions of years ago. Since it’s beginning, the plant has proliferated across the globe. Animals, man, water, wind, even the layout of the land all played a role in its development. The cannabis in Afghanistan may look different from the cannabis that grows in India, but it is all the same. Isolation of a particular gene pool is its only differences. Take 2 brother from Kansas. If One brother moves to Tokyo , his location doesn’t make him different. The Kansas brother marries a lady from Kansas and the brother in Tokyo marries one from there. The children may look differently because of the different race of parent, however they are all still human. This same scenario goes for cannabis. Let’s say a bird eats a seed in Kansas and drop it later in St. Louis. It’s still the same cannabis. Cannabis ability to hermie(mutate) ensures that it can reproduce even if no other cannabis is around. One seed dropped can turn into thousands of cannabis plants in 2 grow cycles. These new plants are now uninfluenced by outside cannabis genes, therefore forms its own genealogy. Yes different, but still the same. If it wasn’t the same, there would be no way newly found “species” of cannabis would be able to breed with species either found or species that have already been manipulated by man. Yes all the different strains (call it whatever) is still the same weed... and no it doesn’t look, smell, smoke, or grow the same. The breeder chooses the attributes that makes his strain different. Since I don’t have a PhD... I should have just said. Give the same clone to a group of ten, I guarantee all ten will come back with a different smoke. The cannabis mutation is beautiful, it give people that can’t paint portrait or write poetry, the ability to still create art. Here is my masterpiece, she is called Nympho. After 5 gens, she can stack with the best of them. I can’t say enough about her. But know talk is cheap. Just know the Nympho is out there. Gentlemen, lets create some art. In my Joker voice

 

[Jean-O]

I have always thought that harvest and how you dry and cure the flower has more to do with overall effects. Harvest early and you get the racy jiffy effects harvest late and you get the couchlock sleepiness. Or at least that's my opinion. Sativas generally take longer to fully mature and that's why in my opinion again that most people get the energetic effects off from it because its almost always harvested early. And my opinion on eating cannibus is that it all gives you the same effects when eaten. Its like a strong sedative pain killer. Lower doses always make me energetic and creative and in larger doses they always make me sleepy and groggy doesn't matter sativa indica IMO its all the same when taken orally. I think it could have more to do with ones body and how it reacts to the compounds in the flower.

 

[Son of Hobbes]

I have always thought that harvest and how you dry and cure the flower has more to do with overall effects. Harvest early and you get the racy jiffy effects harvest late and you get the couchlock sleepiness. Or at least that's my opinion. Sativas generally take longer to fully mature and that's why in my opinion again that most people get the energetic effects off from it because its almost always harvested early. And my opinion on eating cannibus is that it all gives you the same effects when eaten. Its like a strong sedative pain killer. Lower doses always make me energetic and creative and in larger doses they always make me sleepy and groggy doesn't matter sativa indica IMO its all the same when taken orally. I think it could have more to do with ones body and how it reacts to the compounds in the flower.

That certainly does factor in as well (and I think most people here have probably felt the effects of a "too early" harvest, or "why am I so sleepy?" from a late one. If you have sleeping problems, it can be really helpful to let the plants go near full amber for example (THC converts to CBN past peak maturity, which will knock you on your butt cheeks.)

So THCa concentration effects the high (and potential anxiety level IMO.)
Cannabinoids effect the high.
Terpenes effect and shape the high.
Flavonoids work in synergy with terpenes (and also effect the pigmentation of cannabis.)
Harvest window of plants (maturity of trichomes)
Human endocannabinoid system decides how ANY of this will work for you regardless.

Feels like Charlie Day trying to explain math:

 

[13Peace]

INSIDER: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say - Insider.

There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say

When scientists were finally able to look at marijuana on the molecular level, they found no differences between indica and sativa strains.

www.insider.com

I once heard someone say that the weed from the 70s was so potent because when it came in brick form it had begun a fermentation process. In Malawi they bury their weed for 6 months wrapped in corn cob husk to get it to ferment.

Yes, kilo bricks were common in the 70s (many in blue paper wrap). Very hard & usually dry due to full sun drying then hydraulic pressing. The smaller brick was easier to smuggle
(Compressed Bales 50-100 lbs were common as well) all were full of seeds.
The Columbian was always much stronger & longer buzz than the Mexican. (based on recent articles I can only guess this was due to high Columbian altitude vs Mexican valley growing—UV light difference ??? UV Stress producing THC (which has been proven). The Columbian always had tiny seeds vs big fat Mexican seeds.
Could this be the altitude UV diff ? as well, meaning is the UV producing many seeds due to stress vs the lower Mex altitude & less UV not stressing the plants(in other words no pressure to produce more seeds more energy to get larger???).
Article notes:
“The concentration of Δ9‐tetrahydrocannabinol (Δ9‐THC), but not of other cannabinoids, in both leaf and floral tissues increased with UV‐B dose in drug‐type plants.”
“The responses to UV‐B radiation varied among species, but, in general, sensitivity to UV‐B radiation was reduced as the elevation of seed collection increased.”
Source—Abstract:
UV‐B RADIATION EECTS ON PHOTOSYNTHESIS, GROWTH and CANNABINOID PRODUCTION OF TWO Cannabis sativa CHEMOTYPES
John Lydon Alan H. Teramura C. Benjamin Coffman
I’m know using 25w UV bulbs mixed with red led light 6 hrs/day last 3 wks flowering, remaining 18 hrs is full led no UV. (I’ve posted 2 pictures of Mephisto Fastasmo 1 @ harvest No UV & 1 two wks from harvest had UV & red led 6hrs/day—note diff in trichome production).
As Trychomes hold cannabinoids & terpenes more trics more terps???

Sorry got off on a tangent...but leading back to Sativa vs Indica, well maybe UV can balance out the two ?

On this post someone mentioned fermenting...well here I go again!
Around 1975 (I’m 59) my older neighbor brought back some veryyy “sappy gooey” dark brown Jamaican bud (had seeds) from Florida while on vacation. He was told the plants were wrapped in large leaves to be cured. (No idea what leaves or how long the cure was)
But, the moisture content & taste of sweet strong sugary molasses colored weed was like nothing I ever got again. (my next Pineapple Express grow “just for fun” I’m going to wrap the tops in banana leaves & dry cure in the sun (making sure to open 2x/day prevent mold) @ night to my basement dark room dry rack 67f) until 28-30% moisture content...then jar cured.

Sativa vs Indica well I guess everyone has different experiences, but for me the kitchen gets emptied no matter what I toke...

 

[pop22]

No, that brick weed was nasty garbage! They spit liqour on it to help bind the bale when compressed. It would often be moldy, and was full of stems ( I think the just stuffed full branches into the bailer.......... We stopped buying brick weed and went dry till we finally started getting some Jamaican weed. This was just before Colombian weed started showing up in my area.

INSIDER: There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say - Insider.

There is no difference between the effects of indica and sativa marijuana strains, scientists say

When scientists were finally able to look at marijuana on the molecular level, they found no differences between indica and sativa strains.

www.insider.com

I once heard someone say that the weed from the 70s was so potent because when it came in brick form it had begun a fermentation process. In Malawi they bury their weed for 6 months wrapped in corn cob husk to get it to ferment.