Well...... we really didn't go dry, in fact, found a source of hash from whom you could get a gram or 5 kilos! I LOVE hash! So I'd by a gram of this and an ounce of that. Good times!
Sativa, Indica, Ruderalis - Is it all BS?
- Thread starter Son of Hobbes
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Absolutely fascinating! Thanks for posting. I am sort of glad that a mistake was made at the beginning because I have a heck of a time trying to distinguish the two sometimes. I guess the good thing coming out of the mistakes in the past is now science is catching up to things with the spread of legalization. We will see more of stuff like this I am sure. For example, I would welcome certified genealogy in a way (ie. "Certified Lab Tested Chem Dog Genes" stamped on a package). At the moment we have no idea what seed sellers are actually peddling based on strain names. But, it will also bring a whole wack of legal issues and battles. Strains will be owned by companies. Thanks again for posting, I love thinking about all of this stuff 
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Just like with dogs, hard to trace exact start and best theory might be it started as one and evolved to adapt to various climates .....
From personal experience I have this comment ....
Weed has for sure evolved since I’ve been smoking, Nixon Era ..... We started with Mexican and most we called - dirt weed - some good stuff occasionally but mostly dirt weed ..... then Carter thru Regan Years there was the Columbian Red Bud ......
Moving forward to the Clinton Years and we had sinsemilla - big catch phrase, without seeds, and it was suppose to be the bomb but most wasn’t .......
Then came Bush 2nd and weed with names started coming out, most were okay but it seemEd potency was not really improving .....
Now current Trump Era and I believe I’m smoking the best I’ve experienced - growers are getting much better - and it started a few years before I stated growing and now that I am growing my own it’s the best for sure.
From personal experience I have this comment ....
Weed has for sure evolved since I’ve been smoking, Nixon Era ..... We started with Mexican and most we called - dirt weed - some good stuff occasionally but mostly dirt weed ..... then Carter thru Regan Years there was the Columbian Red Bud ......
Moving forward to the Clinton Years and we had sinsemilla - big catch phrase, without seeds, and it was suppose to be the bomb but most wasn’t .......
Then came Bush 2nd and weed with names started coming out, most were okay but it seemEd potency was not really improving .....
Now current Trump Era and I believe I’m smoking the best I’ve experienced - growers are getting much better - and it started a few years before I stated growing and now that I am growing my own it’s the best for sure.
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Edit: First I'll say that entourage, terpenes, cannabinoids and their ratios is what I look for from a user point of view, when the info is available. Add lineage to give me hints when I seed shop.
Wow. This caught my attention.
I think that genetic and other scientific research is important, but so is slang, an integral part of the culture. In the early seventies, at least where I lived the reg's came up the Pacific coast from Mexico, Colombia, Acapulco to name a few. Then we started seeing powerful treats from Vietnam, Cambodia, and Thailand, pretty much all "Sativa" variants. All pretty stimulating, except for that sleepy black hash that came around from back east about once per year. Homegrown was bagseed and not usually all that good but got us through the dry spells.
By the mid to late seventies more of the Afghani and Hindu varieties started appearing, and people started talking more of "Indica" with silly arguments about which one was "better". Really, it was about whether they liked to be stimulated or sedated, and the terms synonymous with those qualities simply because originally weed from one general region was extra chill while most of the others were some kind of up.
Then it came BC Bud. Best thing that ever happened, in my
On one hand, is science. No doubt it's good stuff. They need to do what they need to do and I know that we all benefit from it. We have used lineage and traits successfully for as long as we can remember, but maybe it is time for botanists and geneticists to abandon the old technical terms for more accurate descriptors.
But the culture, the language we speak when we talk about our favourite herb is organic and has been growing as long and strong since hippies, beatniks and old time jazz 'n' blues masters. It has picked up terms like decarb, terps, and a whole lexicon of buzzwords to describe the effects.
(yeah, I said it
) More technical words will trickle in to popular use now that our love affair is accepted among the wider population and science is free to explore.I think there was a lot of creative "Sativa"
in the pile of rolling tray scraps that I vaped, ranted on. I actually came here today looking for baking tips! Good thread
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Indica vs Sativa, pedigree vs mutt, thoroughbreds vs wild horses. Thinking outside the box frightens most people. Kush was grown medicinally and large plants weren’t needed. Greedy people mixed it with modern hemp to increase yields and profit margins. Besides most people cannot tolerate smoking kushes in its purest form, creating another reason for breeding it with the hemp based plants. A gimmick was needed in order to sale the lower potency hybrid. Here comes the influx of the thousands of new strains because people are trying to cash in on the $$$$ money train that cannabis create. Most of it is bs. We all smoke it. Thank you @mephisto and the other breeders that recognize a need for high thc cannabis and changing the way America smokes. My Nympho stops all of my aches and pains, as well as, calm my nerves. She gives me a wild ride, then gently supply me with a nights worth of sleep. Smoke what you like, It’s all weed. Latest lady Nympho on deck. Besides some young purple lemonade from fastbuds.
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CBD hemp, that which is less than 0.3% THC (by government ideas) is still Cannabis Sativa L. with different variances. Grown singly, several feet apart, it looks, smells and grows like regular Marijuana, a misnomer of a name. Nothing should be called "Marijuana" as it was an invented word in the late 1920s to 1930s as a means of simple identifying those who were considered "low life" by those in the government, and as such was propaganda spread far and wide by newspapers and radio advertising.
Cannabis Sativa L. var ruderalis is just an adapted Cannabis variant, and it's genitic trait of short growth and flower sans day length, can be eventually bred into many of the stains around, and has been done so. There are many of the auto flower groups that are high in CBD, have a balance of CBD and THC and those that are fairly high in THC, probably a bit higher than those regular Mexican weeds of early 1970s and on. Autoflower, short growth cycle, is a recessive gene trait. Meaning you simply cannot take male pollen from an Autoflower and fertilizer a photperiod and the resulting seed will be autoflower. Some might have that trait, but it takes a few selective breeding and back breeding to get that particular trait to be present. Once it is present, it is often used as further crossings of Autoflowers to get similar characteristics to the photoperiod counterpart. For instance, I have grown Zkittlez Auto and it bears a very close resemblance to regular flowering Zkittlez, and you can even cross that Auto with say something like Wipeout Express Auto and end with another Autoflower, but with some traits of both of the parents. or predominately on one of the parents.
Consider apples. Malus. You can grow crab apples and minature crab apples and use that pollen to fertilize apples like Red Delicious.. The fruit will be Red Delicious, but the seed will carry traits of both parents and you don't know exactly what you might end up with from growing the seed. Delicious apple was found as a chance seedling in a Quaker's apple orchard, and got whacked down at least twice before the grower let it grow and transferred it to be in the row. It started as a chance seedling of Winter Banana and Bellflower, but the fruit was distinct and very special. From it and cloing came millions of Delicious apple trees and some of them would have bud sports or "mutations" that have more overall red striping than the original "Hawkeye" or Delicious apple. The original looked more like a Gala apple than what you see in the grocry stores and fruit stands today... and it's taste was much better. however, people wanted "RED" fruit thinking it was riper better, so they kept selecting those "sports" that put in more red skin, and ended up with a tough skinned apple that was inferior in flavor to the original
Cannabis is cannabis. Different growing strains and patterns and slight changes in genetics bring us to today and now there are PLENTY of hybrids of all 3.
Cannabis Sativa L. var ruderalis is just an adapted Cannabis variant, and it's genitic trait of short growth and flower sans day length, can be eventually bred into many of the stains around, and has been done so. There are many of the auto flower groups that are high in CBD, have a balance of CBD and THC and those that are fairly high in THC, probably a bit higher than those regular Mexican weeds of early 1970s and on. Autoflower, short growth cycle, is a recessive gene trait. Meaning you simply cannot take male pollen from an Autoflower and fertilizer a photperiod and the resulting seed will be autoflower. Some might have that trait, but it takes a few selective breeding and back breeding to get that particular trait to be present. Once it is present, it is often used as further crossings of Autoflowers to get similar characteristics to the photoperiod counterpart. For instance, I have grown Zkittlez Auto and it bears a very close resemblance to regular flowering Zkittlez, and you can even cross that Auto with say something like Wipeout Express Auto and end with another Autoflower, but with some traits of both of the parents. or predominately on one of the parents.
Consider apples. Malus. You can grow crab apples and minature crab apples and use that pollen to fertilize apples like Red Delicious.. The fruit will be Red Delicious, but the seed will carry traits of both parents and you don't know exactly what you might end up with from growing the seed. Delicious apple was found as a chance seedling in a Quaker's apple orchard, and got whacked down at least twice before the grower let it grow and transferred it to be in the row. It started as a chance seedling of Winter Banana and Bellflower, but the fruit was distinct and very special. From it and cloing came millions of Delicious apple trees and some of them would have bud sports or "mutations" that have more overall red striping than the original "Hawkeye" or Delicious apple. The original looked more like a Gala apple than what you see in the grocry stores and fruit stands today... and it's taste was much better. however, people wanted "RED" fruit thinking it was riper better, so they kept selecting those "sports" that put in more red skin, and ended up with a tough skinned apple that was inferior in flavor to the original
Cannabis is cannabis. Different growing strains and patterns and slight changes in genetics bring us to today and now there are PLENTY of hybrids of all 3.
That post above was the first mention of cbd/thc ratios in this convo. If you read the new McPartland/Small taxonomy paper, you can see they put forward the theory that the variatals from Central Asia, classed as Indica in past, under this new taxonomy classified as ssp. indica var. afghanica/asperrima that states they have a lower THC:CBD ratio, whereas the varietals from South Asia ssp. Indica var. himalayenisis/Indica have a higher ratio.
Personally, I prefer using mixed ratio (3:1, 1:1) flower in evenings for my own use for the sedative effect (couch lock).
If we take the theory that all modern 'hybrid Sativas' that originated from the Sth Asian Indica drug type and were, in recent times classified as 'racy, energetic' then we also assume it is mostly through lack of CBD not just terpene profile.
McPartland/Small also go on to mention terpene profiles stayed relatively consistent between the 4 variatals, which I find interesting.
Its an ongoing debate/exploration and as mentioned in earlier posts and also the paper itself, very muddled from natural and human selection over a millenia.
Personally, I prefer using mixed ratio (3:1, 1:1) flower in evenings for my own use for the sedative effect (couch lock).
If we take the theory that all modern 'hybrid Sativas' that originated from the Sth Asian Indica drug type and were, in recent times classified as 'racy, energetic' then we also assume it is mostly through lack of CBD not just terpene profile.
McPartland/Small also go on to mention terpene profiles stayed relatively consistent between the 4 variatals, which I find interesting.
Its an ongoing debate/exploration and as mentioned in earlier posts and also the paper itself, very muddled from natural and human selection over a millenia.
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