Real Science vs Bro Science: Ohhh some of you are NOT going to like this!

[derek420colorado]

Here is my current project I’d em you wanna check it out. I run 24/0 half sunlight and half HPS

 

[Autofire]

I understand the process and I have some silver wire on its way to make my own cs. But this is my first shot at it and I don't really know how to the timing of it works. like after I start spraying a branch how long will it take approx until I have pollen to harvest and them after I pollenate the female how long will it take to develop mature seeds.

I'm planing to take cutting and move them into a seperate tent and then reverse those.

Probably should stick this in the right thread hey

 

[derek420colorado]

I understand the process and I have some silver wire on its way to make my own cs. But this is my first shot at it and I don't really know how to the timing of it works. like after I start spraying a branch how long will it take approx until I have pollen to harvest and them after I pollenate the female how long will it take to develop mature seeds.

I'm planing to take cutting and move them into a seperate tent and then reverse those.

Probably should stick this in the right thread hey

Yeah posting in the breeder section and tagging the folks I did above. I have always used sts not cs so I am not familiar with application methods or timing. But as far as when to pollinate usually when themants have 5-6 weeks left.

 

[Autofire]

Nice grow space mate you've done an awesome job of making the most of what you already have. Outdoor/ indoor 24 hours light is a brilliant concept.

You have some very healthy looking girls. Your yields must be decent too in that setup

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

There is a dearth of information in scientific literature on the subject. In my personal experiments (Bro Science) I have grown autos with 24/0, 20/4 and 18/6. The 24/0 had a bigger yield but also the poorest quality. The 20/4 had improved yield over the 18/6 but quality was only slightly better than 24/0. The winner for quality was hands down the 18/6 and yield was only about 10% behind the 24/0. The 24/0 finished about 7 days quicker than the other two that were almost the same time to finish. Cost of the inputs (power mostly) was as suspected the best with the 18/6. I am a better cannabis farmer now than when I ran this test 5 or six years ago. I have much better lights now so who knows what might happen if I were willing to do that work again - I am not. Unlike @derek420colorado I have all sorts of energy and heat concerns here in the summer. In fact I grow Photoperiod plants in the summer so I can run 12/12 reversed from the sun cycle to control heat. So there is that. The reference to plants growing in the never setting sun only relates to the Ruderalis plant and not the hybrid plants that are mostly sativa and indica. They come from regions with night times.

I do know that Harley Smith talks of the importance of a night time but I am pretty sure he is only talking about photos?

I found this statement from Royal Queen Seeds: (unfortunately I think this is Bro Science).

DO AUTOFLOWERING CANNABIS PLANTS NEED A DARK CYCLE?
The short answer is yes with an “if”, and no with a “but”. If you want the highest potency and maximum yield, we suggest adopting either an 18-6 or 20-4 light-dark cycle. But should you run lights 24-0 indoors, your plants and all of your equipment like fans will be pushed to the limit as well. So far, 24-0 auto crops have failed to outperform those cultivated with dark cycles of 4–6 hours. There really is power on the dark side of the force.

The Importance of the Dark Cycle for Growing Cannabis - RQS Blog

Darkness is just as important as light for the health of your cannabis plants. Click here to learn all about why cannabis plants need darkness to grow.

www.royalqueenseeds.com

 

[Autofire]

Here's a pic of my cosmic bomb single plant scrog about a week before first harvest. No defol no lollipop just spread wide and let grow with a little leaf tucking.

She had no trouble getting plump and juicy. I wish I had more of these seeds. Bomb genetics are the tits

 

[pop22]

Ahh but now we have DLI to consider as it seems plants have a saturation point for light, after which plants can simply process no more. I need to read more on this but the gist I get so far is the more intense your light source, the sooner they will peak. This suggests that plant may well need a period to process some of what it has manufactured. Then you can throw CO2 levels in on top of that and we see this is not a simple subject. I myself, have dropped using 24/0 but am still undecided between 20/4 and 18/6. I have a cab I run 17/7, just because it's convenient for me as the cab is in my bedroom. My unscientific opinion is that unless your lights are not powerful enough, 24/0 is a waste of electricity.I'd say roughly, a PPFD under 600 calls for a longer light period.

There is a dearth of information in scientific literature on the subject. In my personal experiments (Bro Science) I have grown autos with 24/0, 20/4 and 18/6. The 24/0 had a bigger yield but also the poorest quality. The 20/4 had improved yield over the 18/6 but quality was only slightly better than 24/0. The winner for quality was hands down the 18/6 and yield was only about 10% behind the 24/0. The 24/0 finished about 7 days quicker than the other two that were almost the same time to finish. Cost of the inputs (power mostly) was as suspected the best with the 18/6. I am a better cannabis farmer now than when I ran this test 5 or six years ago. I have much better lights now so who knows what might happen if I were willing to do that work again - I am not. Unlike @derek420colorado I have all sorts of energy and heat concerns here in the summer. In fact I grow Photoperiod plants in the summer so I can run 12/12 reversed from the sun cycle to control heat. So there is that. The reference to plants growing in the never setting sun only relates to the Ruderalis plant and not the hybrid plants that are mostly sativa and indica. They come from regions with night times.

I do know that Harley Smith talks of the importance of a night time but I am pretty sure he is only talking about photos?

I found this statement from Royal Queen Seeds: (unfortunately I think this is Bro Science).

DO AUTOFLOWERING CANNABIS PLANTS NEED A DARK CYCLE?
The short answer is yes with an “if”, and no with a “but”. If you want the highest potency and maximum yield, we suggest adopting either an 18-6 or 20-4 light-dark cycle. But should you run lights 24-0 indoors, your plants and all of your equipment like fans will be pushed to the limit as well. So far, 24-0 auto crops have failed to outperform those cultivated with dark cycles of 4–6 hours. There really is power on the dark side of the force.

The Importance of the Dark Cycle for Growing Cannabis - RQS Blog

Darkness is just as important as light for the health of your cannabis plants. Click here to learn all about why cannabis plants need darkness to grow.

www.royalqueenseeds.com

 

[derek420colorado]

Ahh but now we have DLI to consider as it seems plants have a saturation point for light, after which plants can simply process no more. I need to read more on this but the gist I get so far is the more intense your light source, the sooner they will peak. This suggests that plant may well need a period to process some of what it has manufactured. Then you can throw CO2 levels in on top of that and we see this is not a simple subject. I myself, have dropped using 24/0 but am still undecided between 20/4 and 18/6. I have a cab I run 17/7, just because it's convenient for me as the cab is in my bedroom. My unscientific opinion is that unless your lights are not powerful enough, 24/0 is a waste of electricity.I'd say roughly, a PPFD under 600 calls for a longer light period.

Also I do have a a DLI Over 50 and run cO2 and while I have heard lots of folks say that exact thing “18/6 gives best quality” but not one person can explain why. So if nobody can explain why then I say phooey and your better quality buds were a result of something else entirely possibly, again cause we grow autos, like it just had better genes. This all harkens back to my earlier post and not really being able to do real science due to an uncontrollable variable. And I see it all too often folks are quick to say oh I ran some 18/6 and some 24/0. The 18/6 was better so that must be it. And while all of the other factors are identical, it was really that phenotype was better.

so for me, in order for this to be more than anecdotal speculation it would have to be done at least ten times in a side by side comparison to weight against the uncontrolled variable. OR for the best and truest results it’ll be done with tissue sample clones so we can Put a lot of this to rest, one way or the other

There is a dearth of information in scientific literature on the subject. In my personal experiments (Bro Science) I have grown autos with 24/0, 20/4 and 18/6. The 24/0 had a bigger yield but also the poorest quality. The 20/4 had improved yield over the 18/6 but quality was only slightly better than 24/0. The winner for quality was hands down the 18/6 and yield was only about 10% behind the 24/0. The 24/0 finished about 7 days quicker than the other two that were almost the same time to finish. Cost of the inputs (power mostly) was as suspected the best with the 18/6. I am a better cannabis farmer now than when I ran this test 5 or six years ago. I have much better lights now so who knows what might happen if I were willing to do that work again - I am not. Unlike @derek420colorado I have all sorts of energy and heat concerns here in the summer. In fact I grow Photoperiod plants in the summer so I can run 12/12 reversed from the sun cycle to control heat. So there is that. The reference to plants growing in the never setting sun only relates to the Ruderalis plant and not the hybrid plants that are mostly sativa and indica. They come from regions with night times.

I do know that Harley Smith talks of the importance of a night time but I am pretty sure he is only talking about photos?

I found this statement from Royal Queen Seeds: (unfortunately I think this is Bro Science).

DO AUTOFLOWERING CANNABIS PLANTS NEED A DARK CYCLE?
The short answer is yes with an “if”, and no with a “but”. If you want the highest potency and maximum yield, we suggest adopting either an 18-6 or 20-4 light-dark cycle. But should you run lights 24-0 indoors, your plants and all of your equipment like fans will be pushed to the limit as well. So far, 24-0 auto crops have failed to outperform those cultivated with dark cycles of 4–6 hours. There really is power on the dark side of the force.

The Importance of the Dark Cycle for Growing Cannabis - RQS Blog

Darkness is just as important as light for the health of your cannabis plants. Click here to learn all about why cannabis plants need darkness to grow.

www.royalqueenseeds.com

 

[pop22]

Exactly! Anecdotes should lead to experimentation, not speculative conclusions.

Also I do have a a DLI Over 50 and run cO2 and while I have heard lots of folks say that exact thing “18/6 gives best quality” but not one person can explain why. So if nobody can explain why then I say phooey and your better quality buds were a result of something else entirely possibly, again cause we grow autos, like it just had better genes. This all harkens back to my earlier post and not really being able to do real science due to an uncontrollable variable. And I see it all too often folks are quick to say oh I ran some 18/6 and some 24/0. The 18/6 was better so that must be it. And while all of the other factors are identical, it was really that phenotype was better.

so for me, in order for this to be more than anecdotal speculation it would have to be done at least ten times in a side by side comparison to weight against the uncontrolled variable. OR for the best and truest results it’ll be done with tissue sample clones so we can Put a lot of this to rest, one way or the other

 

[WildBill]

Also I do have a a DLI Over 50 and run cO2 and while I have heard lots of folks say that exact thing “18/6 gives best quality” but not one person can explain why. So if nobody can explain why then I say phooey and your better quality buds were a result of something else entirely possibly, again cause we grow autos, like it just had better genes. This all harkens back to my earlier post and not really being able to do real science due to an uncontrollable variable. And I see it all too often folks are quick to say oh I ran some 18/6 and some 24/0. The 18/6 was better so that must be it. And while all of the other factors are identical, it was really that phenotype was better.

so for me, in order for this to be more than anecdotal speculation it would have to be done at least ten times in a side by side comparison to weight against the uncontrolled variable. OR for the best and truest results it’ll be done with tissue sample clones so we can Put a lot of this to rest, one way or the other

Dr Bruce Bugbee and his researchers need to run a study with proven scientific methods on this subject with clones and environments close to the same as possible. Keeping the environment the same with feeding and watering would be the most difficult to duplicate. Feeding and watering would be the most difficult to keep as a constant. The 24/0 group will naturally consume more water and nutrients. I'm sure there's tests to see how well fed each study group is fed.