Please help...my baby girl is sick.

[Groff]

How much molasses? How often?

Oh that comment was not directed to you. Sorry about that.

I was being ironic due to a recent thread where molasses was discussed, much in the same way as the unified "calmag deficiency" was mentioned here. Dont ever use molasses in DWC. You can get away with it in coco though. Perfect companion for organic grows if used right.

Molasses will do nothing to neither Calcium or Magnesium deficiency. Sometimes, the phenotype is just a pain to work with. For example, in my current grow of 16 plants, same strain that is usually super stable... yet I have one that is simply a major bitch. Sometimes the spots show up, but not on new growth - it can be a temporary thing. But in your case it does look like a deficiency creeping up.

Strong LED and coco is usually a recipe for calmag deficiency. I will highly recommend brewing a bacterial/compost tea. Not only you will have an army of plant feeders, they will prepare your inputs for better micro nutrient uptake. pH will be higher, around 7 to 7.5, but in this case it is a good thing. Drench your pots and monitor new growth. This will act as a soft-flush, and you can reset and resume the feed again. Don't be scared of removing ugly fan leaves.

Water logging can also show these signs. Are you allowing for a healthy wet-dry cycle, or constantly watering your coco?

 

[MasterTarzan]

Oh that comment was not directed to you. Sorry about that.

I was being ironic due to a recent thread where molasses was discussed, much in the same way as the unified "calmag deficiency" was mentioned here. Dont ever use molasses in DWC. You can get away with it in coco though. Perfect companion for organic grows if used right.

Molasses will do nothing to neither Calcium or Magnesium deficiency. Sometimes, the phenotype is just a pain to work with. For example, in my current grow of 16 plants, same strain that is usually super stable... yet I have one that is simply a major bitch. Sometimes the spots show up, but not on new growth - it can be a temporary thing. But in your case it does look like a deficiency creeping up.

Strong LED and coco is usually a recipe for calmag deficiency. I will highly recommend brewing a bacterial/compost tea. Not only you will have an army of plant feeders, they will prepare your inputs for better micro nutrient uptake. pH will be higher, around 7 to 7.5, but in this case it is a good thing. Drench your pots and monitor new growth. This will act as a soft-flush, and you can reset and resume the feed again. Don't be scared of removing ugly fan leaves.

Water logging can also show these signs. Are you allowing for a healthy wet-dry cycle, or constantly watering your coco?

No prob. Do u have any teas u recommend. I haven’t done any of that yet.

 

[Groff]

No prob. Do u have any teas u recommend. I haven’t done any of that yet.

It is super super simple!

All you need is

- a bucket
- womens stocking
- high quality worm cast compost, found everywhere in horticulture stores
- strong airpump and stones.
- stick
- brown sugar (make sure it is real moscavado/cane sugar) or unsulphured (important!!) balck strap molasses (optional)


Fill the bucket and add airstone and pump with air for at least 12h to evaporate chloride. If using tab water that is excessively alkaline, then pH it down to around 6, no need to be anal.

Cut the stocking in half and fill one leg with a few hand fulls of compost. Tie the stocking to a stick and place over the bucket into the water.
Let it bubble for 24h.

If using brown sugar/molasses, add around 4 to 5ml/L at around the 12h mark. This will hyper drive bacterial multiplication.
From here on, Ignore pH, do NOT correct it. Aerobic bacteria thrive in alkaline conditions. It should settle at around pH 7.5 - 8 - but ignore it.

Done! Feed the plants, they will abslutely LOVE it, provide protection and hyper development, you can use less nutrients with higher effectiveness.

This is how it look like, the foam is a sign of super bacterial development. Without sugar it doesn't bubble so much, but still extremely effective.

Check out some youtube videos. Just use keywords AACT, or "how to make bacterial tea" or "worm casting tea"
_

 

[MasterTarzan]

It is super super simple!

All you need is

- a bucket
- womens stocking
- high quality worm cast compost, found everywhere in horticulture stores
- strong airpump and stones.
- stick
- brown sugar (make sure it is real moscavado/cane sugar) or unsulphured (important!!) balck strap molasses (optional)


Fill the bucket and add airstone and pump with air for at least 12h to evaporate chloride. If using tab water that is excessively alkaline, then pH it down to around 6, no need to be anal.

Cut the stocking in half and fill one leg with a few hand fulls of compost. Tie the stocking to a stick and place over the bucket into the water.
Let it bubble for 24h.

If using brown sugar/molasses, add around 4 to 5ml/L at around the 12h mark. This will hyper drive bacterial multiplication.
From here on, Ignore pH, do NOT correct it. Aerobic bacteria thrive in alkaline conditions. It should settle at around pH 7.5 - 8 - but ignore it.

Done! Feed the plants, they will abslutely LOVE it, provide protection and hyper development, you can use less nutrients with higher effectiveness.

This is how it look like, the foam is a sign of super bacterial development. Without sugar it doesn't bubble so much, but still extremely effective.

Check out some youtube videos. Just use keywords AACT, or "how to make bacterial tea" or "worm casting tea"
_

Dope thx. Didn’t know any of that stuff. I’m gonna try it out.

 

[BII]

...
This is how it look like, the foam is a sign of super bacterial development. Without sugar it doesn't bubble so much, but still extremely effective...

Are you sure foam is a sign of bacteria? I'd presume it's more aerobic fungi (mold, yeast, etc.) vs. bacteria that do most of the sugar fermentation.

 

[Groff]

Are you sure foam is a sign of bacteria? I'd presume it's more aerobic fungi (mold, yeast, etc.) vs. bacteria that do most of the sugar fermentation.

that is a great question, that to be honest I am not 100% sure, but am like 95% certain.

Fungi and mold dont reproduce exponentially like bacteria. They also dont like the turbulence at all, since they work by creating a stable mesh in the soil. It is kind of like one huge organism spread miles and miles in your medium. Bacteria on the other hand are individual organelles that thrive anywhere and everywhere, no matter how much turbulence exists.

Yeasts, and fungi also feed on sugars, but at a much MUCH slower rate. When making teas, adding sugars vs not make a significant difference - hence I argue that the foam in a direct correlation to bacterial exponential multiplication, rather that yeasts or fungi.
_

 

[BII]

that is a great question, that to be honest I am not 100% sure, but am like 95% certain.

Fungi and mold dont reproduce exponentially like bacteria. They also dont like the turbulence at all, since they work by creating a stable mesh in the soil. It is kind of like one huge organism spread miles and miles in your medium. Bacteria on the other hand are individual organelles that thrive anywhere and everywhere, no matter how much turbulence exists.

Yeasts, and fungi also feed on sugars, but at a much MUCH slower rate. When making teas, adding sugars vs not make a significant difference - hence I argue that the foam in a direct correlation to bacterial exponential multiplication, rather that yeasts or fungi.
_

But on the other hand, my familiarity (and maybe that of home beer and wine brewers and others) is different -- that fungi collectively have faster metabolism than bacteria, particularly in terms of fermenting potent sugar solutions. Isn't that how home brewers can often get away without full pharmaceutical-grade sterilization, with the yeast/fungi vastly out-growing any contaminating bacteria. I presume fungi being metabolically dominant is particularly true for the unnaturally strong sugar solutions being used (while the microbes present and their behavior are likely much different in living soil). Supporting this, I assume there is much higher fungal spores vs. sucrose-fermenting bacteria floating around in the air (where you're getting your microbes from). And in terms of fungi not liking turbulance, most fungi likely love it -- Don't biotechnologists favor yeast/fungi, including over bacteria, because of faster metabolism, higher productivity, often due to ability to take intense sparging (forced aeration-based mixing), etc.? [But as can be seen, neither of us fully knows what is right here].

 

[Groff]

But on the other hand, my familiarity (and maybe that of home beer and wine brewers and others) is different -- that fungi have faster metabolism than bacteria in general, particularly in terms of fermenting potent sugar solutions. Isn't that how home brewers can often get away without true/full pharmaceutical-grade sterilization, with the yeast/fungi vastly out-growing any contaminating bacteria. I presume this is particularly true for the unnaturally strong sugar solutions being used, while microbes present and their behavior are likely much different in living soil. Supporting this, I also assume there is much higher fungal spores vs. sucrose-fermenting bacteria floating around in the air (where you're getting your microbes from).

True, but I think maybe you're mixing up colonization vs reproduction speed. Bacteria can reproduce much quicker and can wildly variate population, while fungi typically colonizes a fixed strain, or small subset. Bacteria can multiply at will, if mold or yeast decide to to take over the environment, it is theirs to keep. Except some notorious super performers like LABs

I'm not a true mycologist (personal psylocibin grower though) but this is news to me. Everything I know about microbiology suggest bacteria, given the right condition, have unparalleled exponential growth. Fungi are slightly more forgiving. But in this context of tea we are promoting super turbo charged environment for bacteria, not fungi. ALTHOUGH, the tea WILL inoculate your soil with valuable fungi and spores, and they will definitely thrive and be greatly beneficial. I'm talking about the 24h brew of the team only

Not saying you're wrong, just debating. From my research I followed guys that had proper equipment that I dont (high quality 200x+ microscope) to actually quantitatively show results. It is the main reason why it is usually called a "bacterial tea"

Spores need time to hatch into mycelium, the hyphae needs to stretch to cross DNA info and produce a spawn, that then either stays as mycelium, becomes sclerotia or produces fruits. Either case we're talking several days here for mycelium alone, fruits and sclerotia take weeks and months respectively.

Again, the water turbulence argument alone is what convinces me the foam is bacterial growth. I've never seen a case of fungal activity is a highly dynamic medium. It is typically the opposite. Standing water, rotting food, forgotten stuff in a cupboard/basement etc. Fungi like to grow long and static, while bacteria are so damn minuscule they dont give a damn where they breed

Bacteria just "fart" and multiply anywhere
_

 

[BII]

True, but I think maybe you're mixing up colonization vs reproduction speed. Bacteria can reproduce much quicker and can wildly variate population, while fungi typically colonizes a fixed strain, or small subset. Bacteria can multiply at will, if mold or yeast decide to to take over the environment, it is theirs to keep. Except some notorious super performers like LABs

I'm not a true mycologist (personal psylocibin grower though) but this is news to me. Everything I know about microbiology suggest bacteria, given the right condition, have unparalleled exponential growth. Fungi are slightly more forgiving. But in this context of tea we are promoting super turbo charged environment for bacteria, not fungi.

Again, not saying you're wrong, just debating. From my research I followed guys that had proper equipment that I dont (high quality 200x+ microscope) to actually quantitatively show results. It is the main reason why it is usually called a "bacterial tea"

Spores need time to hatch into mycelium, the hyphae needs to stretch to cross DNA info and produce a spawn, that then either becomes stays as mycelium, becomes sclerotia or produces fruits. Either case we're talking several days here for mycelium alone, fruits and sclerotia take weeks and months respectively.

Again, the water turbulence argument alone is what convinces me the foam is bacterial growth. I've never seen a case of fungal activity is a highly dynamic medium. It is typically the opposite. Standing water, rotting food, forgotten stuff in a cupboard/basement etc. Fungi like to grow long and static, while bacteria are so damn minuscule they dont give a damn where they breed

Bacteria just "fart" and multiply anywhere
_

1 last comment: Overall, I think fungi are more metabolically active than bacteria, which are even simpler organisms. My half educated guess is still fungi are much faster terms of fermenting concentrated sugar solutions, particularly making the foam (CO2?) you refer to.

Differences in opinion here could be that your knowledge is apparently more grounded in practical soil microbiology and making teas, while I'm taking a more biotech/industrial view of fermentation.

 

[Groff]

1 last comment: Overall, I think fungi are more metabolically active than bacteria, which are even simpler organisms. My half educated guess is still fungi are much faster terms of fermenting concentrated sugar solutions, particularly making the foam (CO2?) you refer to.

Differences in opinion here could be that your knowledge is apparently more grounded in practical soil microbiology and making teas, while I'm taking a more biotech/industrial view of fermentation.

Such a great and rare occasion where two people can meet to exchange ideas and knowledge without any ego or drama! Here, take this one from me


Only fermentation I know is LAB, wine & mead, and ... kombucha. All perfectly the "same", pro-biotic and alcoholic fermentation. Fermentation is yeast based, a specific subset of fungi. When I said fungi I was meaning of micorrihzal fungi. Should have made that clearer.

Again, learning from you, not negating your input. But I mostly saw folk putting plates under a microscope and making bacterial math around it.

Just bumped into this;

"Plate counts of bacteria and fungi were significantly higher than the initial compost in ACT. Microbial communities of all ACT were predominantly bacteria. The dominant bacterial genera were analyzed as Bacillus (63.0%), Ochrobactrum (13.0%), Spingomonas (6.0%) and uncultured bacterium (4.0%) by 16S rDNA analysis. "

(PDF) Compost teas: Microbial hygiene and quality in relation to method of preparation

PDF | On Jan 1, 2004, W Brinton and others published Compost teas: Microbial hygiene and quality in relation to method of preparation | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

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