Old Reviews Organic vs Inorganic Nutrients: Is there really that big a difference in final product?

[Builder0101]

So if plants don't know the difference between organic and inorganic input of nutrients, is there REALLY that big of a difference between plants that are grown organically versus inorganic in the final product?

If buds are grown with synthetic nutrients but still smell like fuel, smoke like fire, and get you higher than the heavens, would have growing them organically arguably produced a better product?

What do YOU think, AFN?

Yes because those that love salts love their finished product. Those that love organics love their finished product. Of course we can not leave out synganics, lovely system. The only caveat is those who have not yet landed on a style. The discussion will go on forever. Everyone is correct. God Bless Cannabis. God Bless You All. Peace, Love, Grow.

 

[Green Goblin]

Building your soil and producing quality results from your effort is satisfying.

 

[Fitzy]

I recently switched to organic from salts and the biggest difference is flavor atleast so far also just using water is nice and makes it easier to concentrate on everything else. My yield arnt much different than in coco which I switched to 10yrs ago from soil bc of yeilds I think that's the difference now there is so much info on organic cannibis 10/20yrs ago it was very different. I honestly think with all things besides nutes being equal there would be minimal difference but most people can't control the environment or other aspects and so one or the other works better for them. I have to run it 100% stealth so organic works better as soil holds moisture longer and amended soil means water only so they never miss a feeding. I won't deny great weed can and has been grown in all kinds of ways and as long as the seem happy then how much does it matter how it was grown. I think it would be neat to do a side by side with the only variable being nutrients then have them tested. That's the only way to see for sure otherwise it's preference.

 

[Groff]

I've been doing hydro for the past 10 years, and I'm switching to organics. First "cheating" using OMRI bottles, but as training wheels for TLO.
Only have the luxury of 1 grow room, so need to phase my crops out

Reasons;

Think about our footprint, we're a parasite to this planet.
TLO is much harder to master, and I'm bored with hydro
Looking to buy a small property with lots of outdoor grow potential :smoking:
In 20+ years toking, I've always ALWAYs been able to tell an outdoor plant from an indoor grow (with a caveat)

In recent years, I've been regularly blow away at a local grower who does organic under strong LEDs. Stronger and smellier weed, same strain/bank as mine.

Trimming… my 0.02c - I find minimal difference betweenwet and dry trimming. I feel dry trimming does more damage to tryches. I do mostly wet, and final sweet trim dry

Has anyone given Kyle Kushman's Vegamatrix nutrient line a try? It is supposed to be 100% veganic, 100% non-GMO and virtually no heavy metals.

_

 

[pop22]

Trimming, i don't see that it matters one way or the other. Personally I find wet trimming easier and less loss of trichromes. I doubt that wet trimming has much affect on terpenes. It's really a matter of personal preference. I've tried dry trimming a couple times and absolutely detest it. I'll vape/smoke the buds untrimmed rather than dry trim. And in fact, i now quite often don't trim at all, I really see no reason to as I'm not selling it.As long as it's properly cured it smokes and vapes the same, trimmed or untrimmed. I also like the look of untrimmed bud.

 

[Builder0101]

Dry trimming sucks. It is Self Flagellation.

 

[Son of Hobbes]

Trimming, i don't see that it matters one way or the other. Personally I find wet trimming easier and less loss of trichromes. I doubt that wet trimming has much affect on terpenes. It's really a matter of personal preference. I've tried dry trimming a couple times and absolutely detest it. I'll vape/smoke the buds untrimmed rather than dry trim. And in fact, i now quite often don't trim at all, I really see no reason to as I'm not selling it.As long as it's properly cured it smokes and vapes the same, trimmed or untrimmed. I also like the look of untrimmed bud.

Actually I'm working on a working theory about this lol.

In Colorado, there's still a pretty healthy mix on commercial grows of whether people dry or wet trim (this is according to an interview conducted on Growers Network with the alleged first trimming company ever created in Colorado (which ironically I think they went out of business a year or two ago.))

The first commercial grow I worked at, we hung branches in their entirety to dry, then bucked (removed the bud sites from the stalks and major fan leaves,) then once they are bucked they typically go through a light machine trim before finishing on hand trim.

Now, the second commercial grow I worked at, they did the WEIRDEST shit I've ever seen lol, they would harvest the entire plant, but they'd hang it upside down on a large clothing rack on wheels (like umm.... the kind you'd get at a hotel for hanging luggage and drycleaning on, etc.) Once it's hanging (still wet, fresh,) they'd have their harvest laborers physically RIP the leaves (like a major defanning but at harvest) from the plant, and then they'd RIP apart the buds to spread onto a tray before it went into probably the most fancy, expensive drying/curing room/system anyone here has ever laid eyes on. From there, it would go through a meticulously controlled drying process that allegedly spread the moisture completely even throughout all the buds within the room, then given a small cure (which on the rec side of cannabis, NOBODY's curing, that's absurd lol.)

Sounds cool, right? It WAS cool.

Except all their buds smelled like STRAIGHT chlorophyll Holy shit, dude had over 80 pounds of bud that smelled like wet hay as a finished product. And they couldn't figure it out. And I'm sitting here watching them shred these plants like you'd shred a pork loin for tacos.

So personally I think there's some damage being done to wet plants when you slice and dice into 'em. Especially damaging cell walls, tissue, etc. Look up green leaf volatiles, they are organic compounds released by leafy plants when their tissue gets damaged. Food for thought anyway.

 

[Builder0101]

Actually I'm working on a working theory about this lol.

In Colorado, there's still a pretty healthy mix on commercial grows of whether people dry or wet trim (this is according to an interview conducted on Growers Network with the alleged first trimming company ever created in Colorado (which ironically I think they went out of business a year or two ago.))

The first commercial grow I worked at, we hung branches in their entirety to dry, then bucked (removed the bud sites from the stalks and major fan leaves,) then once they are bucked they typically go through a light machine trim before finishing on hand trim.

Now, the second commercial grow I worked at, they did the WEIRDEST shit I've ever seen lol, they would harvest the entire plant, but they'd hang it upside down on a large clothing rack on wheels (like umm.... the kind you'd get at a hotel for hanging luggage and drycleaning on, etc.) Once it's hanging (still wet, fresh,) they'd have their harvest laborers physically RIP the leaves (like a major defanning but at harvest) from the plant, and then they'd RIP apart the buds to spread onto a tray before it went into probably the most fancy, expensive drying/curing room/system anyone here has ever laid eyes on. From there, it would go through a meticulously controlled drying process that allegedly spread the moisture completely even throughout all the buds within the room, then given a small cure (which on the rec side of cannabis, NOBODY's curing, that's absurd lol.)

Sounds cool, right? It WAS cool.

Except all their buds smelled like STRAIGHT chlorophyll Holy shit, dude had over 80 pounds of bud that smelled like wet hay as a finished product. And they couldn't figure it out. And I'm sitting here watching them shred these plants like you'd shred a pork loin for tacos.

So personally I think there's some damage being done to wet plants when you slice and dice into 'em. Especially damaging cell walls, tissue, etc. Look up green leaf volatiles, they are organic compounds released by leafy plants when their tissue gets damaged. Food for thought anyway.

But there must be a difference between shredding and gently clipping.

 

[Son of Hobbes]

But there must be a difference between shredding and gently clipping.

Tell that to the pork loin! lol!

I hear ya, making a rip versus a precision cut, etc etc.

 

[MI_sterGreen]

The difference between an organic molecule and a non-organic? A carbon atom, that's all. What started me on the quest to find out about the difference between organic nutrients and manufactured ( 90% are NOT "synthetic" in any way), it was the often repeated statement that non-organic nutrients were "bad" because they contained "chemicals" that are bad for you. That is not only a myth, but a flat out lie! Let me use my favorite dry "non" organic nutrient as an example. Megacrop. MC is made from minerals and elements, as are all plants nutrients, "organic" or not. Many of these minerals and elements are easily assimilated by plants. Some elements however can only be used by plants in their ionic form. They are made available by a process called chelation ( Keylation ) Chelation converts these elements into ionic form. In organic mediums, this is done by bacteria. In non organic, manufactured nutrients, this is done by most companies by using EDTA. Now there is some controversy about EDTA, most of which I find unsupported by science, in fact, it's a very common component of food preservation. Grrenleaf Nutrients, makers of Megacrop, found a way to use natural ensymes to accomplish the chealtion. So there product is composed of powdered minerals and elements with the micronutrients chelated by enzymes. In fact, they also ad some organic compounds to it also, klep, etc.
Most dry and even bottled nutrients stem from the same sources, with the exception of some nitrates. However, in a lab, ammonium nitrate is exactly the same, whether from an organic source or not.
Next, salts buildup. Yes, it can be an issue. But the source of the problem is not the nutrients themselves, its the fault of the growers AND the nutrient companies. The companies for encouraging overfeeding, and the growers for not questioning this. Part of my proof of this is to be found in my auto pots. my pots are filled with soil, which has not been changed in over two years. that entire time, the pots were fed with Megacrop solution and I NEVER flush my pots. I feed my plants at a ppm of 425 to 525 max. I've never had a nutrient related issue doing this. I've even tested using some soil from one of these pots to start seedlings. Worked just fine.

Now I do like organic growing, don't get me wrong. it plays to my sense of simplicity. but its only true benefit in indoor gardening is that the nutrients are less energy intensive to produce. it's a different scenario outdoors in large scale farming, where overfeeding is the normal and these nutrients are accumulating along with the horrible pesticides that are used along with them, it's proven to be not sustainable.

So you can fool yourself into thinking your organic bud is better, but it's probably not. The one fly in the ointment is bottled nutrients, especially "bloom boosters" and "bud hardeners", which are nothing but snakeoil designed to fatten nutrient makers bank accounts, not your buds. The often contain dangerous plant hormones and other "secret" ingredients. I have never used them for just this reason and never will.

And the last things related to this are the myths of "popping and sparking" and "black ash". Popping and sparking according to the myth is caused by too much magnesium in the flowers. So tell me, have you ever tried to set 40 PARTS PER MILLION of magnesium on fire??? Give me a break! The popping and sparking is caused by the bodies of pests, mites etc, exploding from the steam boiled out of them.

And black ash is caused sugars and chlorophyll in the bud and proper curing takes care of that, it has nothing to do with nutrients in the bud.

I could rant on for days over this! THIS is why the myth busting section even began, to dispel all the bullshit that has been plaguing growers for so long. Most of which came about as boastfull bullshit from one grower trying to impress another. Well, the bullshit srops here!

I use MC as well. I was curious about what you would call it? Organic or Veganic? Organics from my understanding contain organic matter such as earthworm castings, beetle shells, and animal wastes i.e.( bat guano, bird guano, fish poop). If left unchecked and allowed to run down the drain it can cause serious buildup of Nitrogen in local streams and rivers. This can cause dead zones lacking oxygen that can no longer support even microscopic life. Perfect example is Gulf of Mexico. Now... MC is according to Greenleaf comprised of only plant matter. Thats what Veganic IMO. Glad to see someone else noticed the chelation being from Amino Acids. Just spit balling here, whats your take?