Old Reviews Organic vs Inorganic Nutrients: Is there really that big a difference in final product?

[Anthropolis]

Hmmmm that's a fair point! I know in the organic grows, people tend to use more teas,..I know I do, thus probably much higher brix available to the plants. Would be a cool study to see if the plants' circadian rythym is influenced a noticable degree by that.

 

[pop22]

Growing outdoors in open fields, I concur. But even those doing organic gardening can and do, over do it. Science shows the only nutritional supplement needed in soil is compost, everything else is extraneous and the same elements and minerals can build up when used excessively. Organic growers have the same " mine is bigger than yours" issues............. And organics is beleaguered by myths also. A good many og the things boasted about as being great for your plants is a waste of time and money. " Glacial Rock Dust" and many other touted additive that DO NOT break down in less than 100 years will certainly accomplish nothing in our life times. The real problem is hardly anyone challenges "conventional wisdom". Take for example, placing "drainage"materials in the bottom of pots. NO! the laws of hydraulics tells us that the interface of dissimilar materials RESISTS the flow of water until overcome by gravity. The bond that creates the ability to wick water is broken and or weakened by such. I've read of people arguing with scientists over this in public forums! People really hate to find out, or admit when they are mistaken, or feel they have been fooled.

If you want some real eye openers, go do some reading on gardenmyths.com some of the things he challenges there have even caused my to say whoa, wait a minute. but you can't argue with science if your expecting truth.

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After seeing the extreme damage done to rivers an the earth from chemical fertilizers in agriculture it's a no brainer for me why I choose 100 organic. I have grown up around farming my whole life an one of the saddest thing I ever encountered as a kid was seeing my grandpa's an mine fishing spot turn green due to extreme chemical runoff from fertilizers. Soil erosion an damage to the soil was also evident something you didn't see in grandpa's garden which had been organic for over a hundred years it was after all a century farm ..Now growing styles is a preference but for me an my relationship with the earth I will always run as close to nature as possible I like wildcrafting fertilizers mixing compost ,loving on some worms I just don't think I could have fun mixing an measuring up powders like a chemist when I can shove my hands in a pile of rotting organic matter an get dirty .My ancestors got down like that who am I to change tradition.
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[Proph]

I wonder if there's been any studies done on the brix levels of plants (brix is a measurement of the sugar content in the sap) grown with organic versus inorganic nutrients. We were talking about sugar levels effecting the circadian rhythm of plants in another thread (there's a study that's suggesting sugar levels directly effect the regulation of the cycle.)

This is true.. And Im sure studies have been done somewhere.. But once it's federally legal here, we'll see studies and research of all sorts done. Right now you can buy a digital refractometer and measure brix levels in your grows.. So technically, someone could do a side by side with organic vs non organic.

 

[Son of Hobbes]

Hmmmm that's a fair point! I know in the organic grows, people tend to use more teas,..I know I do, thus probably much higher brix available to the plants. Would be a cool study to see if the plants' circadian rythym is influenced a noticable degree by that.

Here's a blurb and link from the article:

Plants use sugars to tell the time of day, according to research published in Nature today.


Our research shows that sugar levels within a plant play a vital role in synchronizing circadian rhythms with its surrounding environment

Alex Webb

Plants, like animals, have a 24 hour 'body-clock' known as the circadian rhythm. This biological timer gives plants an innate ability to measure time, even when there is no light - they don’t simply respond to sunrise, for example, they know it is coming and adjust their biology accordingly. This ability to keep time provides an important competitive advantage and is vital in biological processes such as flowering, fragrance emission and leaf movement.

BBSRC-funded scientists from the University of Cambridge Department of Plant Sciences, are studying how plants are able to set and maintain this internal clock. They have found that the sugars produced by plants are key to timekeeping.

Plants produce sugar via photosynthesis; it is their way of converting the sun’s energy into a usable chemical form needed for growth and function.

This new research has shown that these sugars also play a role in circadian rhythms. Researchers studied the effects of these sugars by monitoring seedlings in CO2-free air, to inhibit photosynthesis, and by growing genetically altered plants and monitoring their biology. The production of sugars was found to regulate key genes responsible for the 24 hour rhythm.

Dr Alex Webb, lead researcher at the University of Cambridge, explains: “Our research shows that sugar levels within a plant play a vital role in synchronizing circadian rhythms with its surrounding environment. Inhibiting photosynthesis, for example, slowed the plants internal clock by between 2 and 3 hours.”

The research shows that photosynthesis has a profound effect on setting and maintaining robust circadian rhythms in Arabidopsis plants, demonstrating a critical role for metabolism in regulation of the circadian clock.

Dr Mike Haydon, who performed much of the research and is now at the University of York added: “The accumulation of sugar within the plant provides a kind of feedback for the circadian cycle in plants – a bit like resetting a stopwatch. We think this might be a way of telling the plant that energy in the form of sugars is available to perform important metabolic tasks. This mirrors research that has previously shown that feeding times can influence the phase of peripheral clocks in animals.”

Article credited to Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council (BBSRC)

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/researchers-show-how-plants-tell-the-time

 

[pop22]

I don't flush my plants and I don't water to run off. Your reasoning is also why i gave up DWC, all that solution being dumped is bad! outdoors, all my gardening is organic. As long as I can control my usage of the nutrients i use, I have no problem using them. And the pots I use with soil that i feed can go back to organic with just a few feedings of just water then adding organic compost and nutrients as top dressing.

And I understand your reasoning, it is valid. Just remember that organic growing in containers is very different from outdoor gardens and challenge every claim made about organic supplements!

That carbon atom is a huge difference though.. As all "living" things contain that carbon atom.

THIS!! This hits at the heart of organic growing. I used to use bottled nutes.. Mixing this with that and ph'ing everything.. I've used all nute lines.. You name it.. I ran it. Then I watched a farming documentary about where these nutrient solutions end up and the damage they cause to the environment. I thought of all the 5 gal pots that I've sat in a bath tub and flushed.. All the run off water I've dumped down the drain.. That's what got me thinking about true, living, organics. I didn't want to be part of the problem, so I completely changed my approach.

 

[Anthropolis]

That is very interesting, Hobbes! I bookmarked that link too. Hmm!!

 

[pop22]

an honest study of Brix levels would have to test across many different nutrient formulas to be valid. A comparison against just one would would be of no value. even different organic approaches will vary the results. This requires a long term study to gather enough valid data.

 

[hecno]

I grow organic and have spent a lot of time studying it . The main benefit I get out of it is working with soil and my bottle nutrient use is way down .Also I always liked playing in dirt and now that I am older I like the slower approach -- Is it a better way of growing -- for me yes -- each to there own .

 

[Son of Hobbes]

Kind of feels like the environmental impact is maybe one of the greater concerns (not necessarily that it produces better or healthier plants, at least not conclusively?)

 

[pop22]

i agree, it's the environment impact that is the downside of manufactured nutrients. However, we need to look further at what impact the modern concept of organic has on the environment also. The harvesting of peat destroying peat bogs. the harvesting of coco coir, which use to rot under the trees and replenish the soil, the mining of things like green sand, azomite, etc. burning wood to make bio-char,
( which isn't even close to having the same properties as the bio-char found in the Amazon ). When we want best practices in growing, we need to take a critical look all ALL currently used methods. all have their faults and all can be improved.

Kind of feels like the environmental impact is maybe one of the greater concerns (not necessarily that it produces better or healthier plants, at least no conclusively?)