Old Reviews Organic vs Inorganic Nutrients: Is there really that big a difference in final product?

[Mañ'O'Green]

First of all most cannabis growers have no idea what "Real" organic soil is. They think they can add some minerals (rock) and microbes to a base and call it Organic Soil! It is not. Good organic soil takes years of preparation. I have grown cannabis in organic soil and the most remarkable part of that experience is how symmetrical the plant grows and by that I mean the beauty of the plant. They were always green and pretty. The only thing other than appearance was the flavors were very "deep" or "intense" compared to the salt grows I had done back then. I do believe that with the addition of UV A&B light to my salt grows I now have achieved the same terpene profiles as when I was growing with Organic soil. So in my opinion There is no difference in the end product. Salt is by far the easiest way to grow.

 

[created2live4ever]

Good question. You ever buy organic vegetables? Ever notice they do not last but 1 day in the fridge before they go bad? Ever wonder if this happens to terps in organic weed?

Organic and home grown true organic is different. Products in the shop that are labelled "organic", "bio" or "natural" are most of the time just a marketing trick to sell better or to allow the higher prize. But as soon as you taste the stuff you grown in your own backyard, feeded real compost etc makes you realize that the "organic" from Tesco isn't really different than the regular product.

Now translating to cannabis world... For example True Living Organics is the REAL organic, bio, natural way to grow. We shouldn't mix it with a plant being feeded "organic" nutrients from a bottle. Is it feeded organicly? Yes. Is it GROWN organicly? No. It's just a little "better" than the synthetic style (not saying synthetic is worse, just get my point please) just like organic tomato from Tesco is a little better than the non organic tomato from Tesco.


PS: guys, I have no experience in growing cannabis and just a little in gardening in general. Everything above is what I just red from different books and watch on YouTube from guys like Jeff Lowenfels, The Rev, Self Sufficient Me etc...

 

[pop22]

The difference between an organic molecule and a non-organic? A carbon atom, that's all. What started me on the quest to find out about the difference between organic nutrients and manufactured ( 90% are NOT "synthetic" in any way), it was the often repeated statement that non-organic nutrients were "bad" because they contained "chemicals" that are bad for you. That is not only a myth, but a flat out lie! Let me use my favorite dry "non" organic nutrient as an example. Megacrop. MC is made from minerals and elements, as are all plants nutrients, "organic" or not. Many of these minerals and elements are easily assimilated by plants. Some elements however can only be used by plants in their ionic form. They are made available by a process called chelation ( Keylation ) Chelation converts these elements into ionic form. In organic mediums, this is done by bacteria. In non organic, manufactured nutrients, this is done by most companies by using EDTA. Now there is some controversy about EDTA, most of which I find unsupported by science, in fact, it's a very common component of food preservation. Grrenleaf Nutrients, makers of Megacrop, found a way to use natural ensymes to accomplish the chealtion. So there product is composed of powdered minerals and elements with the micronutrients chelated by enzymes. In fact, they also ad some organic compounds to it also, klep, etc.
Most dry and even bottled nutrients stem from the same sources, with the exception of some nitrates. However, in a lab, ammonium nitrate is exactly the same, whether from an organic source or not.
Next, salts buildup. Yes, it can be an issue. But the source of the problem is not the nutrients themselves, its the fault of the growers AND the nutrient companies. The companies for encouraging overfeeding, and the growers for not questioning this. Part of my proof of this is to be found in my auto pots. my pots are filled with soil, which has not been changed in over two years. that entire time, the pots were fed with Megacrop solution and I NEVER flush my pots. I feed my plants at a ppm of 425 to 525 max. I've never had a nutrient related issue doing this. I've even tested using some soil from one of these pots to start seedlings. Worked just fine.

Now I do like organic growing, don't get me wrong. it plays to my sense of simplicity. but its only true benefit in indoor gardening is that the nutrients are less energy intensive to produce. it's a different scenario outdoors in large scale farming, where overfeeding is the normal and these nutrients are accumulating along with the horrible pesticides that are used along with them, it's proven to be not sustainable.

So you can fool yourself into thinking your organic bud is better, but it's probably not. The one fly in the ointment is bottled nutrients, especially "bloom boosters" and "bud hardeners", which are nothing but snakeoil designed to fatten nutrient makers bank accounts, not your buds. The often contain dangerous plant hormones and other "secret" ingredients. I have never used them for just this reason and never will.

And the last things related to this are the myths of "popping and sparking" and "black ash". Popping and sparking according to the myth is caused by too much magnesium in the flowers. So tell me, have you ever tried to set 40 PARTS PER MILLION of magnesium on fire??? Give me a break! The popping and sparking is caused by the bodies of pests, mites etc, exploding from the steam boiled out of them.

And black ash is caused sugars and chlorophyll in the bud and proper curing takes care of that, it has nothing to do with nutrients in the bud.

I could rant on for days over this! THIS is why the myth busting section even began, to dispel all the bullshit that has been plaguing growers for so long. Most of which came about as boastfull bullshit from one grower trying to impress another. Well, the bullshit srops here!

So if plants don't know the difference between organic and inorganic input of nutrients, is there REALLY that big of a difference between plants that are grown organically versus inorganic in the final product?

If buds are grown with synthetic nutrients but still smell like fuel, smoke like fire, and get you higher than the heavens, would have growing them organically arguably produced a better product?

What do YOU think, AFN?

 

[Master_gRoshi]

The difference between an organic molecule and a non-organic? A carbon atom, that's all. What started me on the quest to find out about the difference between organic nutrients and manufactured ( 90% are NOT "synthetic" in any way), it was the often repeated statement that non-organic nutrients were "bad" because they contained "chemicals" that are bad for you. That is not only a myth, but a flat out lie! Let me use my favorite dry "non" organic nutrient as an example. Megacrop. MC is made from minerals and elements, as are all plants nutrients, "organic" or not. Many of these minerals and elements are easily assimilated by plants. Some elements however can only be used by plants in their ionic form. They are made available by a process called chelation ( Keylation ) Chelation converts these elements into ionic form. In organic mediums, this is done by bacteria. In non organic, manufactured nutrients, this is done by most companies by using EDTA. Now there is some controversy about EDTA, most of which I find unsupported by science, in fact, it's a very common component of food preservation. Grrenleaf Nutrients, makers of Megacrop, found a way to use natural ensymes to accomplish the chealtion. So there product is composed of powdered minerals and elements with the micronutrients chelated by enzymes. In fact, they also ad some organic compounds to it also, klep, etc.
Most dry and even bottled nutrients stem from the same sources, with the exception of some nitrates. However, in a lab, ammonium nitrate is exactly the same, whether from an organic source or not.
Next, salts buildup. Yes, it can be an issue. But the source of the problem is not the nutrients themselves, its the fault of the growers AND the nutrient companies. The companies for encouraging overfeeding, and the growers for not questioning this. Part of my proof of this is to be found in my auto pots. my pots are filled with soil, which has not been changed in over two years. that entire time, the pots were fed with Megacrop solution and I NEVER flush my pots. I feed my plants at a ppm of 425 to 525 max. I've never had a nutrient related issue doing this. I've even tested using some soil from one of these pots to start seedlings. Worked just fine.

Now I do like organic growing, don't get me wrong. it plays to my sense of simplicity. but its only true benefit in indoor gardening is that the nutrients are less energy intensive to produce. it's a different scenario outdoors in large scale farming, where overfeeding is the normal and these nutrients are accumulating along with the horrible pesticides that are used along with them, it's proven to be not sustainable.

So you can fool yourself into thinking your organic bud is better, but it's probably not. The one fly in the ointment is bottled nutrients, especially "bloom boosters" and "bud hardeners", which are nothing but snakeoil designed to fatten nutrient makers bank accounts, not your buds. The often contain dangerous plant hormones and other "secret" ingredients. I have never used them for just this reason and never will.

And the last things related to this are the myths of "popping and sparking" and "black ash". Popping and sparking according to the myth is caused by too much magnesium in the flowers. So tell me, have you ever tried to set 40 PARTS PER MILLION of magnesium on fire??? Give me a break! The popping and sparking is caused by the bodies of pests, mites etc, exploding from the steam boiled out of them.

And black ash is caused sugars and chlorophyll in the bud and proper curing takes care of that, it has nothing to do with nutrients in the bud.

I could rant on for days over this! THIS is why the myth busting section even began, to dispel all the bullshit that has been plaguing growers for so long. Most of which came about as boastfull bullshit from one grower trying to impress another. Well, the bullshit srops here!

dropping the knowledge nukes.

 

[dankstyle J]

After seeing the extreme damage done to rivers an the earth from chemical fertilizers in agriculture it's a no brainer for me why I choose 100 organic. I have grown up around farming my whole life an one of the saddest thing I ever encountered as a kid was seeing my grandpa's an mine fishing spot turn green due to extreme chemical runoff from fertilizers. Soil erosion an damage to the soil was also evident something you didn't see in grandpa's garden which had been organic for over a hundred years it was after all a century farm ..Now growing styles is a preference but for me an my relationship with the earth I will always run as close to nature as possible I like wildcrafting fertilizers mixing compost ,loving on some worms I just don't think I could have fun mixing an measuring up powders like a chemist when I can shove my hands in a pile of rotting organic matter an get dirty .My ancestors got down like that who am I to change tradition.

 

[GeorgeCloney]

@pop22 @Dabber @Waira
I particularly like your example of MC feeding rates vs nute burn and flushing.
I cannot remember which one of you had posted the notion of keeping the plants feeding habits as stable as possible.
The end result being less stress to the plant, and not being wasteful with nutes.

There seems to be this reoccurring theme amongst non bio(organic) grows about how much bigger my dick is because I feed at 2800ppm
The opposite seems to hold true for the organic crowd. I mean a sense of pride on being creative with feeding anything that doesn't come from a bottle.
Without having enough experience with either approach, any opinion is speaking out of my arse.
One observation I have noticed in my few months here on the site.
I rarely see issues from the bio crowd about calcium or any other def'c.
There food for thought.
(No pun intended)

 

[Son of Hobbes]

There seems to be this reoccurring theme amongst non bio(organic) grows about how much bigger my dick is because I feed at 2800ppm

I get what you're saying 100%, BUT, you can't argue that it's impressive to see a plant take a MASSIVE feeding like that and not burn out. Come onnnnnnn. lol

 

[Anthropolis]

I've grown both, and currently do a combo of building a decent organic soil and adding chem nutes in occasionally during watering. Sometimes the pure organic seemed to taste better, but that could've been other factors or my mind playing tricks on me haha.

The boon to pure organic is once you build the soil real good, it's kinda a set-it-and-forget-it grow aside from watering, maybe a weekly tea, and watching for calmag defs.

Chem grows are sometimes a bit more babysitting but do seem to make more yields and sometimes stronger product.

As long as it's finished well, dried properly, and CURED properly, a chem nute grow won't taste like a jar of melted car parts lol. I did once, many years ago, get a street bag and I could absolutely taste it was high performance DWC pure chem grow, not flushed, and not cured right

 

[Son of Hobbes]

I wonder if there's been any studies done on the brix levels of plants (brix is a measurement of the sugar content in the sap) grown with organic versus inorganic nutrients. We were talking about sugar levels effecting the circadian rhythm of plants in another thread (there's a study that's suggesting sugar levels directly effect the regulation of the cycle.)

 

[Proph]

The difference between an organic molecule and a non-organic? A carbon atom, that's all. What started me on the quest to find out about the difference between organic nutrients and manufactured ( 90% are NOT "synthetic" in any way), it was the often repeated statement that non-organic nutrients were "bad" because they contained "chemicals" that are bad for you. That is not only a myth, but a flat out lie! Let me use my favorite dry "non" organic nutrient as an example. Megacrop. MC is made from minerals and elements, as are all plants nutrients, "organic" or not. Many of these minerals and elements are easily assimilated by plants. Some elements however can only be used by plants in their ionic form. They are made available by a process called chelation ( Keylation ) Chelation converts these elements into ionic form. In organic mediums, this is done by bacteria. In non organic, manufactured nutrients, this is done by most companies by using EDTA. Now there is some controversy about EDTA, most of which I find unsupported by science, in fact, it's a very common component of food preservation. Grrenleaf Nutrients, makers of Megacrop, found a way to use natural ensymes to accomplish the chealtion. So there product is composed of powdered minerals and elements with the micronutrients chelated by enzymes. In fact, they also ad some organic compounds to it also, klep, etc.
Most dry and even bottled nutrients stem from the same sources, with the exception of some nitrates. However, in a lab, ammonium nitrate is exactly the same, whether from an organic source or not.
Next, salts buildup. Yes, it can be an issue. But the source of the problem is not the nutrients themselves, its the fault of the growers AND the nutrient companies. The companies for encouraging overfeeding, and the growers for not questioning this. Part of my proof of this is to be found in my auto pots. my pots are filled with soil, which has not been changed in over two years. that entire time, the pots were fed with Megacrop solution and I NEVER flush my pots. I feed my plants at a ppm of 425 to 525 max. I've never had a nutrient related issue doing this. I've even tested using some soil from one of these pots to start seedlings. Worked just fine.

Now I do like organic growing, don't get me wrong. it plays to my sense of simplicity. but its only true benefit in indoor gardening is that the nutrients are less energy intensive to produce. it's a different scenario outdoors in large scale farming, where overfeeding is the normal and these nutrients are accumulating along with the horrible pesticides that are used along with them, it's proven to be not sustainable.

So you can fool yourself into thinking your organic bud is better, but it's probably not. The one fly in the ointment is bottled nutrients, especially "bloom boosters" and "bud hardeners", which are nothing but snakeoil designed to fatten nutrient makers bank accounts, not your buds. The often contain dangerous plant hormones and other "secret" ingredients. I have never used them for just this reason and never will.

And the last things related to this are the myths of "popping and sparking" and "black ash". Popping and sparking according to the myth is caused by too much magnesium in the flowers. So tell me, have you ever tried to set 40 PARTS PER MILLION of magnesium on fire??? Give me a break! The popping and sparking is caused by the bodies of pests, mites etc, exploding from the steam boiled out of them.

And black ash is caused sugars and chlorophyll in the bud and proper curing takes care of that, it has nothing to do with nutrients in the bud.

I could rant on for days over this! THIS is why the myth busting section even began, to dispel all the bullshit that has been plaguing growers for so long. Most of which came about as boastfull bullshit from one grower trying to impress another. Well, the bullshit srops here!

That carbon atom is a huge difference though.. As all "living" things contain that carbon atom.

After seeing the extreme damage done to rivers an the earth from chemical fertilizers in agriculture it's a no brainer for me why I choose 100 organic. I have grown up around farming my whole life an one of the saddest thing I ever encountered as a kid was seeing my grandpa's an mine fishing spot turn green due to extreme chemical runoff from fertilizers. Soil erosion an damage to the soil was also evident something you didn't see in grandpa's garden which had been organic for over a hundred years it was after all a century farm ..Now growing styles is a preference but for me an my relationship with the earth I will always run as close to nature as possible I like wildcrafting fertilizers mixing compost ,loving on some worms I just don't think I could have fun mixing an measuring up powders like a chemist when I can shove my hands in a pile of rotting organic matter an get dirty .My ancestors got down like that who am I to change tradition.

THIS!! This hits at the heart of organic growing. I used to use bottled nutes.. Mixing this with that and ph'ing everything.. I've used all nute lines.. You name it.. I ran it. Then I watched a farming documentary about where these nutrient solutions end up and the damage they cause to the environment. I thought of all the 5 gal pots that I've sat in a bath tub and flushed.. All the run off water I've dumped down the drain.. That's what got me thinking about true, living, organics. I didn't want to be part of the problem, so I completely changed my approach.