Nutrient lockout

[St. Tom]

You should post your answer as too why you do this in the myth buster thread I just started, lol. Im really interested in hearing from people who practice this, and why!

i tried once with the Lucas formula on its own and ended up getting signs brown spotting and yellowing leaves just a hungry look this was one of my 1st grows and from then on i just use it more as protection from it but to be fair your the 1st person whos ever told me i dont need it but that's just my opinion and i grow decent enough plants and im always reading and researching for better growing and i will follow your thread with interest can you tag me to it plz

 

[iman]

in coco your always going to need a bit of calmag that would be my guess also did you test your runoff ec and ph to what your putting in

This is 3rd grow so I’m still new to this, someone suggested a 50:50 mix. I ordered a PH meter yesterday and don’t have a PPM meter. The other 2x grows went ok (I think) so thought if I just did the same I would be ok. If I get enough RSO I probably won’t do another for 2 years so didn’t want to but lots of equipment. I’ll let you know PH later.
Thanks

 

[iman]

I've yet to see a mix of coco and soil go well.. They are two completely different mediums with two different feed requirements. There are two types of lock out... Nutrient lock out from having too much nutrient solution sitting in the soil... And "ph lockout" from the ph of the medium or water used being out of range. To have an idea if you are experiencing a lock out, you will need to check the ppms of the run off while watering with plain ro water. Or check the soil ph with a soil ph probe. It's hard to say which is happening by looks alone.

I run dutch pro as well, and when I use the recommend dose of A & B in ro water (10ml of each per gallon), my ph is dead on 4.2 every time. I have to get the ph up to 6.0 every time. Do you check the ph of the nutrient mix? I would definitely recommended doing so. If it's not between 5.8 and 6.5 you will have on lock out issues. Also Calcium and Magnesium are not "chemicals".. They are organic nutrients that the plant requires for proper growth.

Thanks Prof, ordered a PH meter arrives today, I’ll let you know the reading later.

 

[iman]

I've yet to see a mix of coco and soil go well.. They are two completely different mediums with two different feed requirements. There are two types of lock out... Nutrient lock out from having too much nutrient solution sitting in the soil... And "ph lockout" from the ph of the medium or water used being out of range. To have an idea if you are experiencing a lock out, you will need to check the ppms of the run off while watering with plain ro water. Or check the soil ph with a soil ph probe. It's hard to say which is happening by looks alone.

I run dutch pro as well, and when I use the recommend dose of A & B in ro water (10ml of each per gallon), my ph is dead on 4.2 every time. I have to get the ph up to 6.0 every time. Do you check the ph of the nutrient mix? I would definitely recommended doing so. If it's not between 5.8 and 6.5 you will have on lock out issues. Also Calcium and Magnesium are not "chemicals".. They are organic nutrients that the plant requires for proper growth.

Just checked and full strength nute mix I have been using most of the time is 6.08 straight tap is 7.3 but when de gassed its 7.85 which is what I would normally flush with. Can I use bi carb to lower that when I flush?

 

[Proph]

Just checked and full strength nute mix I have been using most of the time is 6.08 straight tap is 7.3 but when de gassed its 7.85 which is what I would normally flush with. Can I use bi carb to lower that when I flush?

What is the final ph of the nutrient mixed with the tap water?

 

[iman]

What is the final ph of the nutrient mixed with the tap water?

6.08, the last one I did was half strength so will be a bit higher. I was going to do another half strength one but have no run off issues now. The next one is meant to drop from 3ml p litre to 2.5 or 2 anyway (I am near the end). Surprised plain water de gassed is so high, am I better to use it straight from tap when I flush or de gas then adjust ph? Tiny bit of bi carb should do it?

 

[Proph]

6.08, the last one I did was half strength so will be a bit higher. I was going to do another half strength one but have no run off issues now. The next one is meant to drop from 3ml p litre to 2.5 or 2 anyway (I am near the end). Surprised plain water de gassed is so high, am I better to use it straight from tap when I flush or de gas then adjust ph? Tiny bit of bi carb should do it?

It won't hurt to let the tap water gas off first. Just keep in mind that if you want an idea of how much nutrient solution is present in the soil, you will need to check the ppms of the run off as well.

 

[iman]

It won't hurt to let the tap water gas off first. Just keep in mind that if you want an idea of how much nutrient solution is present in the soil, you will need to check the ppms of the run off as well.

So ok to do last 2 weeks with pure de gassed water at 7.8? Maybe I should of bought a PPM meter. Thinking everything looking pretty good now.

 

[Proph]

So ok to do last 2 weeks with pure de gassed water at 7.8? Maybe I should of bought a PPM meter. Thinking everything looking pretty good now. View attachment 1165027

Yes, but I would ph it down into the 6.2-6.5 range to be safe. That way at least some of the nutrients in the soil might become available to the plant.

Ph meters, soil probes, and ppm meters are all tools of the trade.nmust haves if you ask me. I can't see getting through a solid grow without them. Some people will say it's too much money, or that they aren't needed... But when problems arise (and they always do) they are the only tools that can help you diagnose your issues as well as eliminate others.. I bet you a dollar that your ppm run off is in the thousands right now. Using plain ph'd water for the next days or week should bring that number down significantly.

This is my ppm chart for how I feed and check ppms.. I use a 4 day cycle of -nutrient mix- plain water - plain water - nutrient mix.. With a day or so in between waterings if needed. These are raw numbers for nutrients using RO water. If you're using tap water, you'll have to add the plain water ppms to this number to get your total ppms


clones / seeds -
week 1 - 140ppm / 0.2 ec
week 2 - 210ppm / 0.3 ec

veg
week 1 - 350ppm / 0.5 ec
week 2 - 420ppm / 0.7 ec
week 3 - 550-650 ppm / 0.8-0.9ec

bloom - transition
week 1 - 700ppm / 1.0 ec
week 2 - 800ppm / 1.1 ec

full bloom
weeks 3 - 5 (or more) - 800-900ppm / 1.2-1.3 ec

ripening (shock flushing)
15 days before flushing - 400-500ppm / 0.6-0.7 ec

flushing
15 days before harvest - 0-200ppm / 0.0-0.3 ec

My guess is that your ppms are in the 3000 range, if not higher.

 

[iman]

Thanks, I’ll have to try and get my head round that, just ordered on from Amazon it’s coming tomorrow. I’ll report back with reading next water which will be tomorrow or next day. Think I should do 2ml per litre of the Dutch Pro as was going to come off the 3ml around now anyway. So if the run off ppm is crazy high as you say (the plants wick’d all the run off up to last water) I can give them all 5 litres whic should give me about 1500ml of run off per plant. Will doing that bring it down?

Yes, but I would ph it down into the 6.2-6.5 range to be safe. That way at least some of the nutrients in the soil might become available to the plant.

Ph meters, soil probes, and ppm meters are all tools of the trade.nmust haves if you ask me. I can't see getting through a solid grow without them. Some people will say it's too much money, or that they aren't needed... But when problems arise (and they always do) they are the only tools that can help you diagnose your issues as well as eliminate others.. I bet you a dollar that your ppm run off is in the thousands right now. Using plain ph'd water for the next days or week should bring that number down significantly.

This is my ppm chart for how I feed and check ppms.. I use a 4 day cycle of -nutrient mix- plain water - plain water - nutrient mix.. With a day or so in between waterings if needed. These are raw numbers for nutrients using RO water. If you're using tap water, you'll have to add the plain water ppms to this number to get your total ppms


clones / seeds -
week 1 - 140ppm / 0.2 ec
week 2 - 210ppm / 0.3 ec

veg
week 1 - 350ppm / 0.5 ec
week 2 - 420ppm / 0.7 ec
week 3 - 550-650 ppm / 0.8-0.9ec

bloom - transition
week 1 - 700ppm / 1.0 ec
week 2 - 800ppm / 1.1 ec

full bloom
weeks 3 - 5 (or more) - 800-900ppm / 1.2-1.3 ec

ripening (shock flushing)
15 days before flushing - 400-500ppm / 0.6-0.7 ec

flushing
15 days before harvest - 0-200ppm / 0.0-0.3 ec

My guess is that your ppms are in the 3000 range, if not higher.