Lighting expert talks cannabis

[Growtogrow]

I'll have to disagree with most of this thread, these days you really have to go out of your way to find a bad quality light. The video makes a major deal about the spectrum being responsible for the shape. This is of course true to a certain extent, but compared to the effect of the genotype it's as good as irrelevant. I currently have both my stockiest and willowiest plants growing in the same pot. There are so many thousands of strains and crosses out there that you just find the right one.

All the opinions are filtered through selection bias, for example saying that you're growing clones under to slightly different lights and then attributing the difference to the lights, might be right, but it also might be just that one plant grew more than the other. You'd need to do this with 20 plants or at least 10 in each batch and average the result. I grew only photoperiod clones many 25 years ago and while they are similar they still vary among themselves.

I have also watched this but in the past and agree with you. I personally feel spectrum plays a role in plants and how they grow but not as much as most may think.
One major point that not a single company or expert recognizes is Autoflowering plants and how their needs differ from photo period plants. I have proven this for many years now. Early on I blasted my autos with hps, cmh, lec and leds. When calculating hours and wattage the 18-24 hour’s required for autos plays a massive role in a grow. I hope this becomes important to more people in the future.

The point I want to make is not that spectrum is irrelevant it's that it's just a distraction.

So I guess y'all need to start growing under different lights with identical clones and identical growing methods. So you can help me out with these tests.... instead of talking You should get off your and start helping out around here.
Do you think I am the only one that is looking at light and light recipes?
So you've grown a few plants in your time. Don't you have any more information, input, something any thing that will help this thread about light???.
I think 33 gram's is good start and significant. I don't believe it's all due to one plant grew better than the other. Not 33 G. That's quite a significant amount. And if that was 144 plants that's a significant greater yield. 33g x 144p= 4,752y Wouldn't you think? Even if it was 1/2 that... Wow $$ Not mention this ain't my first rodeo. It takes time to grow a lot of plants. it takes time to do test after test. And I'm not trying to do with every strain just with the ones I'm working with. Of course plants all go differently they're just like us. But a couple of identical human twins grow pretty much alike, just like a pair of identical plant clones.
All opinions aside if you're not going to help the thread out. Just don't say anything at all.
So the only distraction here are naysayers that don't know and have nothing to say.
Back up what you know with resresults, receipts of some kind.
I've been growing for dam near 30 years. I work for 2 commercial cannabis farmers. I have 2 small farms of my own. I grow Outdoors organic, indoors organic and other methods. Every year I deal with about 2000 plants mostly photo but a few Auto's. I would run more autos. But they're not consistent enough yet. When quality and yields are Paramount in this business.

No disrespect intended.



I am getting ready to start a new light test with 2 identical clones using a aeroponics system in a few short weeks. Then I'll have a bit more to add to this light science thread.

2 mid seized Fire og kush plant's from summer 2021 organic back yard grow. 5 hour's full sun light at peak sun light per day.
Each plant was 10w 10L x 8t yielding 2 plus pounds each of AAA flower... Not counting the trim for hash. That's more. But I trim for flower not squeezing.

From Big head seeds.

Thanks AFN

 

[SneakyReefer]

So I'm a long time reef keeper and I have some pretty interesting lighting options available to me, but I want to make sure I've got this correct...

If DLI (daily light intake) is attained with a greater amount of blue light, plants will grow differently, in particular, shorter? The key to the correct intensity and schedule is finding the point of diminishing returns with your plants. However, spectrums in the 350-420nm may influence the plant in other ways during the flowering stage, but we're not quite sure how yet? Isn't anything lower than 350 just going to do damage?

I have a 3w x 72 cree RB and violet led strip I'm not using, any thoughts on what would happen if I supplemented with that during flower?

 

[ManWithWrench]

I like turtles!

 

[Drownomatic]

Does the side by side take into account a potential difference in DLI because of area under the curve changes?

Wouldn't you have to calibrate a PPFD sensor to both lights, and adjust their relative brightness the same?

 

[brodie1104]

Great finds Al, thank you! I just finished the first one, onto the 2nd soon...
This is excellent info, must-see stuff,.. it will clear a lot of the fog and hype from the eyes especially new growers...

Great info

 

[Lounge Lizard]

This is WELL worth your time. Watch.

I saw this a few years ago. At that time there were no Full Spectrum lights to buy in my country. I grew 20 Autos under large LED bulbs some white some yellow. Want now to grow 20 inside and have these 2 options. Which is best? Do I need tow of each or can I move them around? Thanks. https://www.hydroshop.co.il/products/uplux-led-600w/ $380.00 $1,116.00https://www.hydroshop.co.il/products/%d7%9e%d7%a2%d7%a8%d7%9b%d7%aa-%d7%aa%d7%90%d7%95%d7%a8%d7%94-%d7%9c%d7%93-uplux-q-board-360w-creeuv/

 

[Growtogrow]

this may be a bit of a rant... To some of you. To others it might be educational.


I
Finally have vindication from the doctor.

I am dismantling my inside grow...

Nobody wanted to hold a discussion on this situation nor did anybody want to help me work with these light recipes out. true.

This is the man right here that convinced me to work with light recipes to start with.

After following the doctor for a long time and seeing where he was going with all of his work.

To me it was common sense to go in a direction that I went with studying deep UV and far red light spectrums.

Now he actually can show you what I was trying to prove to you guys the whole time.

This is some of info I telling you all about. What's in this video that just come out today.

Some help with light recipes would have been cool from any of you guys.

But skepticism and purely not knowing...discouraged everybody from actually trying any more tests... Like I was working with.

I did a couple more tests after I spoke last time on this thread, about light and different spectrums causing the plant to do different things.

Y'all remember.

If you don't I got a thread on here that's got the majority of my test results with far red and deep blue UV and what it did to the plants that I worked with. The conclusions were awesome to say the least.

The doctor's new video Only proved to myself to be more sure about my test conclusions.

Now the doctor is going to tell you what I already know... Plus some more on how to gauge your light. There's still a lot of guessing going on. But the general direction should be cleared to all of you now.

Happy growing

what kind of light is that?

I have lost track of how often I have studied, and I use the word deliberately, Dr. Bugbee's videos. I would take a plant science course from this fellow in a heartbeat, but really when it comes to cannabis, the youtube videos pretty much cover the plant science involved. There is one more video that needs to be added though, and it is here:

Maximizing Cannabis Yields with Dr Bruce Bugbee - YouTube

I realize that this is a bit off the lighting topic, but still part of the Dr. Bugbee package IMO.

Happy growing peeps, if you haven't listened to Dr. Bugbee, I recommend anything he has made available very highly indeed.

Yep! That's another VERY good vid by the Doc!

That's a hortilux CMH 315. Good light. I use CMH 315 lights. I like them quite a bit. And the main reason why I like them is their longevity, their proximity to what the sun gives us. There's different bulbs for different spectrums from deep UV to far-red. You can play with them and come up with different light recipes. And use them in conjunction with LEDs. Very versatile light.
View attachment 1364496View attachment 1364497View attachment 1364498View attachment 1364495View attachment 1364494View attachment 1364491View attachment 1364492

I've build my own experimental lights. Using CMH 315 lights with far-red led technology in the 700 nm range
View attachment 1364499

When I have time I run test and work with light recipes working towards some type of relevancy between light and the plant that I'm working at the time. Too with come up with some type of recipe that can provide me..for lack of a better word...a cookie cutter recipe with light for that particular strain of plant... So when I run it it'll run the same as last time. Or there abouts.

These two plants are identical clones 9 lb Swiss. One plant is underneath a more red 3100 K Spectrum and the other plant is Under a more blue light 41k Spectrum.
View attachment 1364500View attachment 1364501View attachment 1364502View attachment 1364503To see the differences between more UV or more far red. And how to use them together to come up with a better outcome of my product.
Such as this experiment between more UV-light in the 41k Spectrum. Versus the 31k red spectrum
View attachment 1364510View attachment 1364511View attachment 1364512

So you can see there's definitely a difference. In weight for sure...it was 33 grams more using more red technology in this recipe versus using more blue...But there's lines that have to be observed when using more blue UV. When using more UV light he plant is protecting Itself by giving itself more cannabinoids more color pigments. That make it much brighter in color. You can see the blue plant versus the more red plant. This is because the far Red Spectrum tells the plant that is in the shade. And it doesn't need to protect itself from the UV and it will throw more leaves and more branches and more Bud sites to reach the light. The plant will Produce more product with a little bit less flavor...
So far that's what I know. There's more to it. We need a lot more people to run identical clones strains underneath lights and document what they're doing to come up with certain light recipes for those strains. It could be a baseline for that strain. From That Base Line then somebody could tweak it from there to their own.

Now that's all I got right now I got to get to work. Y'all take care hope this help somebody out.

I'll have to disagree with most of this thread, these days you really have to go out of your way to find a bad quality light. The video makes a major deal about the spectrum being responsible for the shape. This is of course true to a certain extent, but compared to the effect of the genotype it's as good as irrelevant. I currently have both my stockiest and willowiest plants growing in the same pot. There are so many thousands of strains and crosses out there that you just find the right one.

All the opinions are filtered through selection bias, for example saying that you're growing clones under to slightly different lights and then attributing the difference to the lights, might be right, but it also might be just that one plant grew more than the other. You'd need to do this with 20 plants or at least 10 in each batch and average the result. I grew only photoperiod clones many 25 years ago and while they are similar they still vary among themselves.

The point I want to make is not that spectrum is irrelevant it's that it's just a distraction.

I have also watched this but in the past and agree with you. I personally feel spectrum plays a role in plants and how they grow but not as much as most may think.
One major point that not a single company or expert recognizes is Autoflowering plants and how their needs differ from photo period plants. I have proven this for many years now. Early on I blasted my autos with hps, cmh, lec and leds. When calculating hours and wattage the 18-24 hour’s required for autos plays a massive role in a grow. I hope this becomes important to more people in the future.

Does the side by side take into account a potential difference in DLI because of area under the curve changes?

Wouldn't you have to calibrate a PPFD sensor to both lights, and adjust their relative brightness the same?

This is another fellows take on the same that's got some other takes on it but still in the general same direction...



Again happy growing to you all.

 

[stvkc69]

Pardon my french but this is fucking incredible info! thank you for sharing! Makes me wish i had a budget for a PPFD meter.

Photone is an app that you can get for free at the app store. It actually works best on android. Not exactly accurate, But I've seen it compared to a $2000 apogee. And it was not that far off. Around 50 to 100 ppfd or so. Although inaccurate it's at least consistent. And it gives you a good reference point to work from. Watch the meter and then how the plant responds and work from there. That seems to be working for me

 

[The Iconoclast]

Although inaccurate it's at least consistent. And it gives you a good reference point to work from. Watch the meter and then how the plant responds and work from there. That seems to be working for me

a $10 lux meter is even better. obsessing over lights these days doesn't make any sense to me in practical terms.

 

[Corum59]

Photone is an app that you can get for free at the app store. It actually works best on android. Not exactly accurate, But I've seen it compared to a $2000 apogee. And it was not that far off. Around 50 to 100 ppfd or so. Although inaccurate it's at least consistent. And it gives you a good reference point to work from. Watch the meter and then how the plant responds and work from there. That seems to be working for me

I just did a comparison Photone/PPFDmeter app with my old Samsung s5 (a known sensor for both apps I think) I really like the mapping on ppfdmeter app.
I am using citizen cob's, the difference between apps is negligible,
Migrow tested both apps and also made a comparison a while back and was seemingly quite impressed.
italics for Photone, bold italics for PPfdmeter
4 cobs, meanwell driver

Seedling stage first 2 weeks:
Probably better to use starter light 2x 5700k at about 40-50cm

Dli
12 height 40 cm + watts 82.5W absolute minimum for driver

16 height 35 cm + watts 82.5W absolute minimum for driver

12 height 40 cm + watts 82.5W absolute minimum for driver

16 height 35 cm + watts 82.5W absolute minimum for driver

Vegative stage week 3-7

20 height 30 cm + watts 82.5W absolute minimum for driver

30 height 30 cm + watts 107W

40 height 30 cm + watts 140W

45 height 30 cm + watts 160W

50 height 30 cm + watts 180W

20 height 30 cm + watts 82.5W absolute minimum for driver

30 height 30 cm + watts 110W

40 height 30 cm + watts 144W

45 height 30 cm + watts 165W

50 height 30 cm + watts 190W

55 height 25 cm + watts 190W

Flowering 4 lights

45 height 30 cm + watts 160W

50 height 30 cm + watts 180W

55 height 25 cm + watts 200W

45 height 30 cm + watts 165W

50 height 30 cm + watts 200W

55 height 25 cm + watts 200W