NEWS Legalization hasn't happened yet

[AJrexxx]

Colorado's flower market took a MASSIVE HIT this last year. MASSIVE. I have never seen more grows go out of business, sell their licenses, or otherwise shut their doors. Not even just small guys, but even bigger companies.

"Cookies" brand (sorry not a Berner fan,) tested for mold soooooooooooo many times from their own facilities it's not even funny.

At my last farm; we were getting barely over $200 a dry pound for the outdoor grown weed (outdoor grown weed ALWAYS, ALWAYS sells for drastically less than indoor grown cannabis; it's considered an inferior product by most consumers. Hell I don't even like to smoke outdoor grown weed; shit's nasty lol. Nothing like the cattle yard wind-whipped poopy dust in your weed. lol)

Bio-mass (which is the entire plant, to be broke down and processed into concentrates like distillate) was selling for $17/pound. Seventeen dollars.

The cost to produce a single pound has far, far far exceeded that actual profit per pound; which has forced the hand of so many businesses to just go out of business. Because they didn't limit the licenses for cultivation (which ordinarily that doesn't sound like a bad thing, right,?) all these dumb shit owners bought acreages and said "well, it's just basic farming, right?"

"We don't have to grow good weed, we just have to grow a lot of weed."

Everyone had this mentality. And so they did, they didn't grow good weed, they just grew a lot of weed. And now the market has soooooooooo much flower in it; and it's garbage, that the dispensaries (who haven't been effected by this at all, that $1500/pound weed they sold for $120 oz still sells for $120/oz when they are buying it for $200/pound wholesale,) now have shelves full of overflow, garbage pot. Because why pay a premium when mom-and-pa pot grower are liquidating their assets?

But on the other hand? FUCK 'EM. Fat greedy ass pigs that built million dollar facilities with zero thought into efficiency and sustainability. People that have/had no right to be in this business going out of business. Not everyone, that's not fair to paint with super broad strokes, but many, many of these companies deserve to go out of business.

The problem with it is basic economics. At some point who knows how long that will be it will become an agriculture crop. The only real money is being first in the door. It was an economic boom for a very limited time. If you did not get in on day one you should stay away it is a depreciating service industry. Right now in MO they are getting 200-400 and ounce in dispensaries. Rec is fairly new a few months, once consumers understand the market (ie soccer moms figure out they are paying to much) the prices will come down along with more competition pushing that as well.

When Honey crisp apples came out and they were getting 6-8 bucks a pound I did not see people from every walk of life lining up to dump hundreds of millions into the apple industry. Why? Because it would be dumb and people see that. With pot people see the money that was made and how much they used to pay, they have trouble looking forward. Part of the bane of criminalization.

I had a gentleman about 5 years ago that wanted me to invest and fund a grow op/packaging/dispensary business. I told him it was a waste of time, he did get some backers and went on his way. The first year he made about 100k because the investors drew most of their capital out very quickly as the model is not sustainable long term (not just licencing and taxes the market does not have many barriers to entry the black market still takes your customers does not matter if they pay taxes or are licenced). Second and third year around 75k, 4th year about 40k, now he is making less than his construction job he left to do this. He is also essentially making minimum wage because he is working non stop. The investors made almost 30% on the deal and did zero work. I am not sure but last i heard if you were willing to take over the lease you could have any of the dispensaries (inventory, equipment, everything) for about 10k.

I did offer to set him up in a grow shop set up selling seeds, giving multiple level of classes(his by far best skill), offering legitimate supplies and such. Would of worked? Who knows? He would of owned something sustainable if it did ,the investment would of been near nothing and he would not of gotten rapped on financing when his backers wanted paid out. He could of walked away almost clean. Long story short he could of stayed in construction made more money and worked 20hrs less a week. I know some people hang on to that adage its not work if you love it. Well if it starts to not pay your bills the love wains.

Thats the real problem though just because you grow great weed does not make you a business man. Good business men can see the opportunity and use that to their advantage. Their are some dispensaries that do great but they are rare. It is more about the location and brand experience. Most are just low paid tax collectors for the state, essentially very similar to the DMV.

There is a very famous tech entrepreneur from MO that was looking at investing 20 million in to a grow op about 5 months into planning he pulled the plug....why? He is a businessman not a lover of pot.

In an ideal world it is no different than any other crop. When the government takes it off all scheduling lists and it can be grown by anyone anywhere my guess will be about 15-20 bucks and ounce (that is just more due to the minimum that anyone would do it for) There will be some top shelf high quality which will be rare of course because most will be shit. I know some of you will think I am off my rocker and I am claiming to be some kind of fortune teller, but this is just history repeating itself. It happened with Tobacco in a very similar fashion 100s of years ago. I brought this up with Crypto some time ago and remined people that is was very similar to the Dutch bulb bubble. Anyone claiming crypto is the new way forward is either delusional or trying to sell crypto. The technology is wonderful but has nothing to do with fake internet coins that you only buy and sell with real money(which isn't backed and is fiat, think about that for a minute)....people trying to replace gold as an asset....Fuck tangent.

Imagine you can stop at you local fruit stand and get some with your apples and blueberries. That is the ideal world no more snake oil salesman, fake pot guru's who have these unbelievable unverifiable stories of how great they are and what they did, no more super pot growing products, no more embellished breeding stories by ass clowns. The only problem is now the federal government has no real reason to decriminalize. The states that are ohh so wonderful and legalized it now need that revenue stream and do not want the federal government to legalize because if they did the only way to keep their high tax rate is to get a law passed locally making it illegal. Which would almost be impossible to enforce because it would be tax evasion not possession which takes more man power and time to prosecute, and is way harder to prove. They couldn't possible hold onto the revenue.

Wow sorry popped an edible this morning along with a bong rip, that rant above is a good example of word vomit from a guy to high to stand.

I will get off my soapbox and we can return to our regularly scheduled program.

 

[Doug58]

In Michigan you have a company with deep pockets crushing out all the competition as soon as they bankrupt everyone prices will go up and stabilize.

States rights in america are something of a misnomer, vote all you want they do not take precedent or protect you from federal law. For the most part the federal government has bigger problems and disrupting a revenue stream for states is not going to help them any.

I for the life of me cannot figure out how people think they voted something in though(i mean you did but under their conditions). If you truly voted it in(the licencing fees would be like a normal business based on sales and you did not have any say on the insane tax rates. For the love of god I do not go to dispensaries just out of principle. 25% tax rate is out of hand that is a higher rate than most pay in federal income taxes. I guess that is why the black market is still strong in most places with legalization.

I believe the tax rate in Michigan for recreational weed is 16%, some other states have much higher tax rates. I grow, but ended up with over two pounds which I could never use and ended up burning most of what I grew in my brush pile one night. I was vacuum packing it and putting it in my basement freezer for about a year but needed the space for food when COVID hit in 2000. Being in Michigan, a state which had some of the strictest lockdowns, I basically didn't leave my house for a year and a half so I had to stock up on food.

I signed up at three dispensaries during that time in order to stock up on edibles and 1gram carts that I was able to get for next to nothing about a year ago and during the lockdown spent most of my growing just as a means to stock up on seeds which I did by growing outside without needing to use my grow lights or indoor tents.

I haven't been back to a dispensary in over a year after getting 10 1 gram carts for around $50.00 during a sale and using all the discounts they offered as a veteran and signing up as a new customer. I've still got 5 carts left.

The company you mentioned in Michigan is probably Lume, they seem to be the big player in the state opening dispensaries everywhere. Every town around me has a Lume dispensary currently and their pricing depends on how affluent the community they are located in is and how many other dispensaries are located in each town.

As far as voting to legalize. Yes we voted for legalization but there was no mention in the initiative on how much a license was going to cost in the initiative. That was set by the state after the fact. I believe Michigan was the first Midwest state to legalize recreational marijuana and then the floodgates opened for legalization in many of the other Midwest states and numerous East coast states followed shortly after.

 

[Doug58]

What gets me is in the 2000 election, Democrats basically ran a campaign promising to legalize marijuana on a national level. Biden as president pushed the states to expunge marijuana convictions.

Have you heard any news on Federal legalization efforts since? Schumer promised movement on this in the 2022 election year when Democrats controlled the presidency, House and had the tie breaker vote in the Senate with VP Harris. Then once the midterm elections were over they still had a month and a half that they could have pushed legalization through. The didn't even bother.

The only legalization we are going to get is through state legalization in states that allow citizen backed initiatives.

In Michigan, after legalization passed through a citizen initiative the lawmakers changed the ballot initiative laws making it harder for citizens to change state law. They also had certain state legislature members attempt to get legalization blocked but that quickly lost steam as even the most Republican voting counties supported legalization which likely led to the Democrats recently taking control of the state legislature and reelecting the horrible lockdown queen governor of the state.

 

[Rasterman]

What gets me is in the 2000 election, Democrats basically ran a campaign promising to legalize marijuana on a national level. Biden as president pushed the states to expunge marijuana convictions.

Have you heard any news on Federal legalization efforts since? Schumer promised movement on this in the 2022 election year when Democrats controlled the presidency, House and had the tie breaker vote in the Senate with VP Harris. Then once the midterm elections were over they still had a month and a half that they could have pushed legalization through. The didn't even bother.

The only legalization we are going to get is through state legalization in states that allow citizen backed initiatives.

In Michigan, after legalization passed through a citizen initiative the lawmakers changed the ballot initiative laws making it harder for citizens to change state law. They also had certain state legislature members attempt to get legalization blocked but that quickly lost steam as even the most Republican voting counties supported legalization which likely led to the Democrats recently taking control of the state legislature and reelecting the horrible lockdown queen governor of the state.

It doesn't matter whether they're Democrats or Republicans. There's too much personal political and economic benefit to politicians who don't make cannabis legal.

The smart thing to do is pretend they want to make it legal federally. That should galvanize lobbyists to make backroom deals netting them more money and power for not doing it. Of course we know that's not what's going on here.

 

[AJrexxx]

I believe the tax rate in Michigan for recreational weed is 16%, some other states have much higher tax rates. I grow, but ended up with over two pounds which I could never use and ended up burning most of what I grew in my brush pile one night. I was vacuum packing it and putting it in my basement freezer for about a year but needed the space for food when COVID hit in 2000. Being in Michigan, a state which had some of the strictest lockdowns, I basically didn't leave my house for a year and a half so I had to stock up on food.

I signed up at three dispensaries during that time in order to stock up on edibles and 1gram carts that I was able to get for next to nothing about a year ago and during the lockdown spent most of my growing just as a means to stock up on seeds which I did by growing outside without needing to use my grow lights or indoor tents.

I haven't been back to a dispensary in over a year after getting 10 1 gram carts for around $50.00 during a sale and using all the discounts they offered as a veteran and signing up as a new customer. I've still got 5 carts left.

The company you mentioned in Michigan is probably Lume, they seem to be the big player in the state opening dispensaries everywhere. Every town around me has a Lume dispensary currently and their pricing depends on how affluent the community they are located in is and how many other dispensaries are located in each town.

As far as voting to legalize. Yes we voted for legalization but there was no mention in the initiative on how much a license was going to cost in the initiative. That was set by the state after the fact. I believe Michigan was the first Midwest state to legalize recreational marijuana and then the floodgates opened for legalization in many of the other Midwest states and numerous East coast states followed shortly after.

Yes Lume is the one my brother in law lives in Lancing and he was telling me about it. Those guys get much cheaper and it would cost more to grow it. In MO the tax rate was on the ballot the issue is they have to attach it to a cause or revenue stream to get people not interested to vote on it. Kind of a messed up reverse auction. Either way politically I do not care because with state legalization some of the stigma leaves locally and people are not going to jail. The black market is the real market in the purest form. So that is what I would go with if I had to buy, but honestly outside of going on vacations I have not bought any weed, edibles, or extracts in five years. So I am just yelling from the sidelines.

 

[AJrexxx]

What gets me is in the 2000 election, Democrats basically ran a campaign promising to legalize marijuana on a national level. Biden as president pushed the states to expunge marijuana convictions.

Have you heard any news on Federal legalization efforts since? Schumer promised movement on this in the 2022 election year when Democrats controlled the presidency, House and had the tie breaker vote in the Senate with VP Harris. Then once the midterm elections were over they still had a month and a half that they could have pushed legalization through. The didn't even bother.

The only legalization we are going to get is through state legalization in states that allow citizen backed initiatives.

In Michigan, after legalization passed through a citizen initiative the lawmakers changed the ballot initiative laws making it harder for citizens to change state law. They also had certain state legislature members attempt to get legalization blocked but that quickly lost steam as even the most Republican voting counties supported legalization which likely led to the Democrats recently taking control of the state legislature and reelecting the horrible lockdown queen governor of the state.

President Obama did the same thing to online poker players all but saying the restrictions would be lifted last i checked its still illegal and that was well over a decade ago.

Its called getting votes, I would not be to expectant of promises on a campaign trail. Whatever the next fight against the system is a politician will claim they will resolve it. Especially if it is popular with young people. Its almost like getting free votes.

 

[Doug58]

It doesn't matter whether they're Democrats or Republicans. There's too much personal political and economic benefit to politicians who don't make cannabis legal.

The smart thing to do is pretend they want to make it legal federally. That should galvanize lobbyists to make backroom deals netting them more money and power for not doing it. Of course we know that's not what's going on here.

What gets me is politicians that opposed legalization for decades leave politics and end up on the boards of marijuana companies. I believe that is what former Speaker of the House John Boehner has done. Probably others.

 

[FarmerJake]

People are starting to feel like cannabis is legal. It isn't, not really. Granted, this is a case of the government taking advantage of powers it shouldn't have, just for revenue, but it has reminded one family that legal cannabis is not a thing.

Why Are Feds Targeting High-End Pot Producers in California?

Stuck in a legal gray area, some cannabis companies are facing raids – and seizure of all their assets.

www.rollingstone.com

This news story is from 2016

 

[Doug58]

That Rolling Stone article is from 2016.

The family got their money back after court challenges.

VICTORY For the Slatic Family In California - Institute for Justice

Big news out of San Diego! In May, a court ordered the District Attorney’s Office to return every last penny of the more than $100,000 […]

ij.org

 

[Doug58]

When you read up on the results of the case in the the Rolling Stone article the case was something else. The prosecutor after being ordered to return the money confiscated then filed felony charges against a number of people involved just before she left office to run in another campaign.

Individuals pled guilty to misdemeanor charges.

The prosecutor has a long corrupt history of taking illegal foreign donations for political campaigns among other things. Was an eye opening read after searching for some articles. All politics.