Fast Buds Is this the biggest Chemdawg ever?

[DoobieGrows]

You're in for a treat with that Hubbabubbahaze. I've only heard good things. Ya, based on that pic, you're crushing it and will have some quality flowers soon!

Another app I used before PPFD Meter was Tent Buddy. If you select the right light type, it's fairly accurate (+/-10%). It worked, but I wanted something more accurate with less thinking on my part and picked up the bluetooth lux meter for the PPFD app. In my opinion, growing in a tent I'm always moving my lights or dimming them so having a reliable way to measure PPFD/DLI is priceless.

Yes I agree. That and and a dehuey are more important than I realized. So I have a few more tools I need to add to my toolbox. But the wealth of knowledge and experience is going to make it well worth the effort.

 

[Delps8]

"I wish I didn't buy this Hlg 600Rspec. It's way too strong for Autoflowers."
If you can point out how autos aren't able to use as much light as photos, please do tell. All the research that I've found is based on photos so it would be interesting to see if someone has put effort into autos. I'm not holding my breath for that because I figure that the commercial world is all photos so no one is going to pay for research in to autos. It's just us brave souls!

My experience and, I strongly believe that "the plural of anecdotes in not data", is that I've grown autos at very close to 900µmols and they've done well. When I pushed them to 940µmols, I got light avoidance. That stopped when I dropped the light level to the high 800's. The light was a Growcraft X3 at 14" hang height, measured with an Apogee MQ-500 that was tested out at 2.4% high.

Re. your light levels — the answer is at your finger tips.

Head over to the HLG site and look at the product page for your light. There's a wealth of information there. For this conversation, the big win is that they publish the results of independent testing and all you need to do is divide two numbers to be able to convert lux to PAR (HLG and Growcraft publish this type of data - growers' lives would be a lot easier if every manufacturer did but there are reasons why other companies down't want to open the kimono like that).

In the PDF that opens when you click "HLG 600 Rspec® Independent Lab Report", they publish the fact that the light maxes out at 1528.75 µmols and, at that level, it is generating 94602.36 lumens. Divide the 1529 by 94602 and you get a conversion factor of 0.016. That's your magic number.

You can use that to calibrate Photone but why bother - who wants to futz around with putting on the diffuser and waving the iPhone around when all you need is a light meter? Take a light meter reading, put the factor in a calculator and plug and chug, or just print out the handy dandy table that I posted and run your finger across the chart. That answer is right there.

One issue to watch out for is the hot spot that's inherent to board lights. HLG recommends a 40" hang height for veg and 28" in flower. That goes hand in hand with the hot spot. Go over to ppfdcharts.com and check out the PPFD map for your light to see what the light values are at a variety of distances. If your hang height is <= 28", you should move your plants around to avoid those high values in the center and/or topping and LST'ing your plants. That will the apical cola which grows in the center of the plant, so you'll have a more even canopy.

 

[DoobieGrows]

The app has a 'Lux Meter' button, when you click that on the top there's a calibration button. That's where you can update the calibration. The main way to do this is to reference the manufacturer's PAR map (should be on their website), but then create your own PAR map. Be sure the height of the light is the same as their PAR map. Then, based on the difference, input your calibration percentage.

Or you can get the bluetooth lux meter. lol

Be sure to also select the correct light 'source type'. Click PPFD & DLI button, on the bottom left, click the option button and select the source type that corresponds to the HLG600rspec. I believe it's either LED 3000k +10 660nm or LED 3500k + 10 660nm. You can also change the 'daily interval' if you were growing photos at 12/12 to get the DLI to display correctly and also set thresholds you want to stay in, though, these are more for the visual aspect as it changes the color of the meter when using it. (ie. too high would be red, too low would be blue)

Thanks for the info. I am heading over to the hlg website to get a chart to go from.

 

[DoobieGrows]

"I wish I didn't buy this Hlg 600Rspec. It's way too strong for Autoflowers."
If you can point out how autos aren't able to use as much light as photos, please do tell. All the research that I've found is based on photos so it would be interesting to see if someone has put effort into autos. I'm not holding my breath for that because I figure that the commercial world is all photos so no one is going to pay for research in to autos. It's just us brave souls!

My experience and, I strongly believe that "the plural of anecdotes in not data", is that I've grown autos at very close to 900µmols and they've done well. When I pushed them to 940µmols, I got light avoidance. That stopped when I dropped the light level to the high 800's. The light was a Growcraft X3 at 14" hang height, measured with an Apogee MQ-500 that was tested out at 2.4% high.

Re. your light levels — the answer is at your finger tips.

Head over to the HLG site and look at the product page for your light. There's a wealth of information there. For this conversation, the big win is that they publish the results of independent testing and all you need to do is divide two numbers to be able to convert lux to PAR (HLG and Growcraft publish this type of data - growers' lives would be a lot easier if every manufacturer did but there are reasons why other companies down't want to open the kimono like that).

In the PDF that opens when you click "HLG 600 Rspec® Independent Lab Report", they publish the fact that the light maxes out at 1528.75 µmols and, at that level, it is generating 94602.36 lumens. Divide the 1529 by 94602 and you get a conversion factor of 0.016. That's your magic number.

You can use that to calibrate Photone but why bother - who wants to futz around with putting on the diffuser and waving the iPhone around when all you need is a light meter? Take a light meter reading, put the factor in a calculator and plug and chug, or just print out the handy dandy table that I posted and run your finger across the chart. That answer is right there.

One issue to watch out for is the hot spot that's inherent to board lights. HLG recommends a 40" hang height for veg and 28" in flower. That goes hand in hand with the hot spot. Go over to ppfdcharts.com and check out the PPFD map for your light to see what the light values are at a variety of distances. If your hang height is <= 28", you should move your plants around to avoid those high values in the center and/or topping and LST'ing your plants. That will the apical cola which grows in the center of the plant, so you'll have a more even canopy.

All the info I find on AUTOFLOWER light levels say that Auto's should not get over 700 ppfd without the addition of Co2. I am sure there are exceptions but I don't see my auto handling 700 let alone 900 ppfd. Thanks for the knowledge though. I am not to good at math so those numbers will help.

 

[Delps8]

All the info I find on AUTOFLOWER light levels say that Auto's should not get over 700 ppfd without the addition of Co2. I am sure there are exceptions but I don't see my auto handling 700 let alone 900 ppfd. Thanks for the knowledge though. I am not to good at math so those numbers will help.

"All the info I find on AUTOFLOWER light levels say that Auto's should not get over 700 ppfd without the addition of Co2"
I've missed those. Could you be so good as to share the sources/links?

Many growers, myself included, routinely provide their autos with well over 700µmols of light. I've done my three auto grows at well above 700µmols and the only time I've seen an issue is when I exceeded 900µmols, which is the "light saturation point" for cannabis.

In retrospect, for my last grow, I didn't give my plants enough light because they didn't hit the 700µmols level until day 41. At that point, per the table below, I raised the PPFD to 700 and light levels stayed well above 700µmols until day 121, when the second and final plant was harvested. The photo period was 18/6, IIRC, though I might have altered that to 17.5 from time to time or raised it to 18.5 or 19 hours.

The two plants yielded 26.04 ounces or 729gm (dry), with one plant at 21 ounces/590 gm.

Those yields equate to 947 grams per square meter which makes me think that I didn't made too many mistakes, and I certainly didn't make a huge mistake such as giving them 30% too much light which would have resulted in widespread, catastrophic damage. What I do know is that I exceeded the 700µmol level for ⅔ of the duration of the grow and that my yield was 190% of the breeders' estimated yield.

There was a thrip infestation that took a while to deal with and I expect that impacted my yield to some extent. Also, I chopped Wilma, the smaller plant, but only took the very top colas. I knew that Chris had so many huge colas (one was 16" long) that I didn't bother to harvest the rest of Wilma. The yield could have been better, by at least a few ounces perhaps, but seeing that I'm a new grower who did get almost a kilo per square meter, I'm not complaining.


Light data from my last grow (orange text = infilled values)

The last detailed light readings, shown below, were taken on 220625. There was so much weed in the tent that it was pointless to continue to capture this data. I harvested about three weeks later.

Legent
320 = 320 watts
18 = 18 hour photo period
107 = the standard deviation of the PPFD values
7 = the SD of the DLI values

Samples were taken of 18 colas for this reading. Colas were sample front to back, left to right. Data were sorted by PPFD, ascending.
Blue text = DLI below 35 mols. Blue = cold
Black text = DLI at or below "recommended" level of 45 mols
Red text = "high light" DLI. Bugbee defines DLI's above 45 mols as "high light"
This data tells me the uniformity of the light on the canopy.

The second, smaller set of readings is for the Viper Spectra XS-1500 that I used to light the two branches that fell out of the front of the tent. It uses the same legend as the larger set of numbers.

Yield data:
Crop was dried to ≈ 62%RH using commodity hygrometers (±5%)
Column 1 is gross weight, subsequent columns indicate the equipment used. Formulas in the table net out weight of equipment used.
Last two columns are calculated net weights.
Scale was a milligram scale. Weights were verified using US coins as standard weights.

Tent a week before chop.

Cola from Chris:

 

[DoobieGrows]

"All the info I find on AUTOFLOWER light levels say that Auto's should not get over 700 ppfd without the addition of Co2"
I've missed those. Could you be so good as to share the sources/links?

Many growers, myself included, routinely provide their autos with well over 700µmols of light. I've done my three auto grows at well above 700µmols and the only time I've seen an issue is when I exceeded 900µmols, which is the "light saturation point" for cannabis.

In retrospect, for my last grow, I didn't give my plants enough light because they didn't hit the 700µmols level until day 41. At that point, per the table below, I raised the PPFD to 700 and light levels stayed well above 700µmols until day 121, when the second and final plant was harvested. The photo period was 18/6, IIRC, though I might have altered that to 17.5 from time to time or raised it to 18.5 or 19 hours.

The two plants yielded 26.04 ounces or 729gm (dry), with one plant at 21 ounces/590 gm.

Those yields equate to 947 grams per square meter which makes me think that I didn't made too many mistakes, and I certainly didn't make a huge mistake such as giving them 30% too much light which would have resulted in widespread, catastrophic damage. What I do know is that I exceeded the 700µmol level for ⅔ of the duration of the grow and that my yield was 190% of the breeders' estimated yield.

There was a thrip infestation that took a while to deal with and I expect that impacted my yield to some extent. Also, I chopped Wilma, the smaller plant, but only took the very top colas. I knew that Chris had so many huge colas (one was 16" long) that I didn't bother to harvest the rest of Wilma. The yield could have been better, by at least a few ounces perhaps, but seeing that I'm a new grower who did get almost a kilo per square meter, I'm not complaining.


Light data from my last grow (orange text = infilled values)

View attachment 1507312

The last detailed light readings, shown below, were taken on 220625. There was so much weed in the tent that it was pointless to continue to capture this data. I harvested about three weeks later.

Legent
320 = 320 watts
18 = 18 hour photo period
107 = the standard deviation of the PPFD values
7 = the SD of the DLI values

Samples were taken of 18 colas for this reading. Colas were sample front to back, left to right. Data were sorted by PPFD, ascending.
Blue text = DLI below 35 mols. Blue = cold
Black text = DLI at or below "recommended" level of 45 mols
Red text = "high light" DLI. Bugbee defines DLI's above 45 mols as "high light"
This data tells me the uniformity of the light on the canopy.

The second, smaller set of readings is for the Viper Spectra XS-1500 that I used to light the two branches that fell out of the front of the tent. It uses the same legend as the larger set of numbers.

View attachment 1507341


Yield data:
Crop was dried to ≈ 62%RH using commodity hygrometers (±5%)
Column 1 is gross weight, subsequent columns indicate the equipment used. Formulas in the table net out weight of equipment used.
Last two columns are calculated net weights.
Scale was a milligram scale. Weights were verified using US coins as standard weights.
View attachment 1507313

Tent a week before chop.
View attachment 1507332

Cola from Chris:

View attachment 1507346

Just Google what ppfd should Autoflowers get and it takes you to a paragraph that says right at the top

"All the info I find on AUTOFLOWER light levels say that Auto's should not get over 700 ppfd without the addition of Co2"
I've missed those. Could you be so good as to share the sources/links?

Many growers, myself included, routinely provide their autos with well over 700µmols of light. I've done my three auto grows at well above 700µmols and the only time I've seen an issue is when I exceeded 900µmols, which is the "light saturation point" for cannabis.

In retrospect, for my last grow, I didn't give my plants enough light because they didn't hit the 700µmols level until day 41. At that point, per the table below, I raised the PPFD to 700 and light levels stayed well above 700µmols until day 121, when the second and final plant was harvested. The photo period was 18/6, IIRC, though I might have altered that to 17.5 from time to time or raised it to 18.5 or 19 hours.

The two plants yielded 26.04 ounces or 729gm (dry), with one plant at 21 ounces/590 gm.

Those yields equate to 947 grams per square meter which makes me think that I didn't made too many mistakes, and I certainly didn't make a huge mistake such as giving them 30% too much light which would have resulted in widespread, catastrophic damage. What I do know is that I exceeded the 700µmol level for ⅔ of the duration of the grow and that my yield was 190% of the breeders' estimated yield.

There was a thrip infestation that took a while to deal with and I expect that impacted my yield to some extent. Also, I chopped Wilma, the smaller plant, but only took the very top colas. I knew that Chris had so many huge colas (one was 16" long) that I didn't bother to harvest the rest of Wilma. The yield could have been better, by at least a few ounces perhaps, but seeing that I'm a new grower who did get almost a kilo per square meter, I'm not complaining.


Light data from my last grow (orange text = infilled values)

View attachment 1507312

The last detailed light readings, shown below, were taken on 220625. There was so much weed in the tent that it was pointless to continue to capture this data. I harvested about three weeks later.

Legent
320 = 320 watts
18 = 18 hour photo period
107 = the standard deviation of the PPFD values
7 = the SD of the DLI values

Samples were taken of 18 colas for this reading. Colas were sample front to back, left to right. Data were sorted by PPFD, ascending.
Blue text = DLI below 35 mols. Blue = cold
Black text = DLI at or below "recommended" level of 45 mols
Red text = "high light" DLI. Bugbee defines DLI's above 45 mols as "high light"
This data tells me the uniformity of the light on the canopy.

The second, smaller set of readings is for the Viper Spectra XS-1500 that I used to light the two branches that fell out of the front of the tent. It uses the same legend as the larger set of numbers.

View attachment 1507341


Yield data:
Crop was dried to ≈ 62%RH using commodity hygrometers (±5%)
Column 1 is gross weight, subsequent columns indicate the equipment used. Formulas in the table net out weight of equipment used.
Last two columns are calculated net weights.
Scale was a milligram scale. Weights were verified using US coins as standard weights.
View attachment 1507313

Tent a week before chop.
View attachment 1507332

Cola from Chris:

View attachment 1507346

Straight from Google

 

[Delps8]

Just Google what ppfd should Autoflowers get and it takes you to a paragraph that says right at the top

Straight from Google View attachment 1507521

Are there any other sources of information that you have found that, to you, state that autos should not get over 700µmols without the addition of CO2?

 

[Tom Bombadil]

 

[DoobieGrows]

View attachment 1507767

Is that an auto?

 

[DoobieGrows]

She is about to hit the the led. She is already hitting the carbon filter. How do I get her to stop stretching?