M
Mr Piggy
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As am I. We've got some great results under LEDs here and a big claim about a light being superior needs some explaining, redundant or not.
New Grower Intro and questions on nutrients and production
- Thread starter Eastwood
- Start date
Not being a mind reader, its difficult to know what someone else knows so sorry if my post came off wrong to you. J Its not the spectrum that is superior as you can get LED made with any spectrum you choose (but don't waste any nodes on UVA as it has no reaction on your plant) although the ratio of red to blue is better than most (i believe) in this light but it’s the intensity of light as in uW/cm2 as I’m sure your aware. There is some really bad LED out there and watching what Seymour has done with LED shows that it can also be good. My feeling is that it will take multiple type lights to really give the plant the maximum benefits. these LEDs are not "my" prototypes but I've been in touch with this company for some time now and they tweaked this unite for me with 90degree lenses and their new chips. Most 3w LED has an impute current of 630mA. If they raise the impute power, it burns out the chips and drivers. This new model can achieve 700mA (patented) and they have developed a new patented cooling system to use that power without compromising the light. Which means more light to your plant per watt and deeper penetration with the 90 degree lens. I have seen the technical work behind this (it’s what I do for a living) and its real life stuff, not just hype or marketing. But because I’m know for “practical application” meaning, actually using lights over animals (or in this case plants) and not just reading graphs, we will have to see how they actually perform next to MH and HPS. My experience and gut feelings is that the plants that have a mixture of the 3 types are going to flourish more than the ones with just one or the other and the plants exposed to UVB at the suns natural levels 150-300uW/cm2 should show higher THC and CBD, but again, that we will only know after lab testing. I hope that clears up what I was trying to get at.
But on the subject of better spectrums of MH or HPS, its easy if you have “true” spectrums to look at. Many companies just make up spectrums to print on the box. if you don’t see a lab name, it’s probably not real. I have access to good spectrometers so when I over lay a MH spectrum on a HPS spectrum and nothing in the HPS spectrum is greater than the MH, the MH will do a better job all through the grow. If the MH is lacking in the higher spectrum obviously either switch or combine the 2 but you already know that.
Everything I was missing arrived today while I was writing you so it’s off to finish this project room and soak some seeds J
But on the subject of better spectrums of MH or HPS, its easy if you have “true” spectrums to look at. Many companies just make up spectrums to print on the box. if you don’t see a lab name, it’s probably not real. I have access to good spectrometers so when I over lay a MH spectrum on a HPS spectrum and nothing in the HPS spectrum is greater than the MH, the MH will do a better job all through the grow. If the MH is lacking in the higher spectrum obviously either switch or combine the 2 but you already know that.
Everything I was missing arrived today while I was writing you so it’s off to finish this project room and soak some seeds J
Gee Mr Piggy, you posted this while I was writing J or I could have answered both. First, I don’t see any reason for a head hunting party at this point. Second, I made a comment in a long post not any “big claims” . I wanted this to be on the LED group just so people that have experience (like you) with both HID and LED could add their impute so yes, I find this redundant. I have only done HID in the past (and did it pretty dam well) as I explained in my intro. I’m in the lighting business and I have known for years that LED is the direction things are going. But to say that there are LED lights that out performs most LED is not a hard thing to understand or agree with. This is new technology and most LED on the market up until this year was pretty poor in every application. And just because some company wants to charge you $1200 for a light does not mean its better then a much less expensive one if the less expensive one can perform as good or better then the high dollar one.
If you have had some great results with LED, I would be the first to want to know about it and how it was done but I still think that it could educate more people on the right forum (which I haven’t had time to get to yet) LED is only going to get better, but most right now is still a poor replacement for HID so giving people the right direction could be very helpful and save a ton of money. Gotta run and do some fun things J
Hi J, Sorry so long to answer…..First i should correct myself and say that this is a production LED that we are tweaking to improve and not a “true” proto type. No real big secrets here. they have taken some very good designs and reversed engineered them and have improved certain aspects of the original. I actually did answer this on the lighting forum but couldn't upload my pictures and from the movement there which should be one of the biggest interests, it’s not, so i just dropped it. I so glad to hear that you know about LED spectrums, but not being a mind reader, its tough to know what you know and don’t know. It’s certainly no secret what spectrums are used by plants most effectively if you do the research even though most of the big name brand don't tell you what they are using. many add specific nm ranges that don't do any good for the plant but sounds like they will do better because they have 8 specific different nm leds instead of 4 or 5. It’s a bit more difficult for most people to know how to read spectrographs and how to analyze them or compare them to other bulbs spectrums. I do this for a living.
for reds, 430 and 470 and 630 and 660 for blue seem to do very well in research but its more the strength or power and lens design than the spectrum that makes the difference. if the nm range was shifted a bit on any 4 of these LED spectrums, i don’t think there would be much of a difference because there is an overlap on how the plant reacts to specific color ranges. but if the chips that drive the LEDs can handle more power without burning out and the lens (or in this case a secondary lens) has a better capacity to direct that energy and the thermal technology is more efficient so it can keep it all cool which is prime for longevity and consistent peak power, now you have something. This company designed 3W LEDs that are running at 700ma’s instead of the common 630ma’s with no overheating.
the 300wt light that i had tweaked is out performing my MH/HPS hybrid 1000wt HID using the very best soft start multi bridged electronic ballast and even I never expected that. I would have been happy if it just was comparable. I am having them add some IR to the next light as the plants that are getting a mixture of the 2 types of light are doing the best and only IR is missing from the spectral range that is used by plants in the LED light, but this LED is blowing away the HID as far as how the plants are reacting. the total LUX produced by this LED is higher than the HID, the plants show no sign of stretching or drifting and are a deeper green than the HID side. The IR is going to have a 120degree lens but I will keep the rest at the 90 degrees I have had installed on the first light because I have been informed that the IR LED they have is very strong and they feel we will get hot spots with a 90degree lens.
so the simple answer is that its not just "spectrum superior to most other LED lights" (although the spectrum we have is very good) it’s the power or light being delivered to the plants….and I will say that I never thought I would see the results I am seeing being a big 1000wt HID guy for 30+ years.
OH and I should mention that the retail price on this LED will be about ½ of comparable performing (if there are better performing LEDs) LED lights as I really am blown away by the results so far. But!!! We are still to see what happens in the flowering stage. The % I have is 2-1 red to blue, instead of the 8-1 most have as my experience in the past with HID has shown that I only needed one HPS to 2 MH for my clones to grow and flower at peak. 2 HPS to 1 MH was not anywhere near as productive and produced way more heat as the HPS has huge IR in its spectrum (all 1000wt). I have a MH bulb that has a spectrum so complete that it over shadows the red side of HPS but the company has only developed it in 400wt write now. I hope to see it in 600wt soon.
for reds, 430 and 470 and 630 and 660 for blue seem to do very well in research but its more the strength or power and lens design than the spectrum that makes the difference. if the nm range was shifted a bit on any 4 of these LED spectrums, i don’t think there would be much of a difference because there is an overlap on how the plant reacts to specific color ranges. but if the chips that drive the LEDs can handle more power without burning out and the lens (or in this case a secondary lens) has a better capacity to direct that energy and the thermal technology is more efficient so it can keep it all cool which is prime for longevity and consistent peak power, now you have something. This company designed 3W LEDs that are running at 700ma’s instead of the common 630ma’s with no overheating.
the 300wt light that i had tweaked is out performing my MH/HPS hybrid 1000wt HID using the very best soft start multi bridged electronic ballast and even I never expected that. I would have been happy if it just was comparable. I am having them add some IR to the next light as the plants that are getting a mixture of the 2 types of light are doing the best and only IR is missing from the spectral range that is used by plants in the LED light, but this LED is blowing away the HID as far as how the plants are reacting. the total LUX produced by this LED is higher than the HID, the plants show no sign of stretching or drifting and are a deeper green than the HID side. The IR is going to have a 120degree lens but I will keep the rest at the 90 degrees I have had installed on the first light because I have been informed that the IR LED they have is very strong and they feel we will get hot spots with a 90degree lens.
so the simple answer is that its not just "spectrum superior to most other LED lights" (although the spectrum we have is very good) it’s the power or light being delivered to the plants….and I will say that I never thought I would see the results I am seeing being a big 1000wt HID guy for 30+ years.
OH and I should mention that the retail price on this LED will be about ½ of comparable performing (if there are better performing LEDs) LED lights as I really am blown away by the results so far. But!!! We are still to see what happens in the flowering stage. The % I have is 2-1 red to blue, instead of the 8-1 most have as my experience in the past with HID has shown that I only needed one HPS to 2 MH for my clones to grow and flower at peak. 2 HPS to 1 MH was not anywhere near as productive and produced way more heat as the HPS has huge IR in its spectrum (all 1000wt). I have a MH bulb that has a spectrum so complete that it over shadows the red side of HPS but the company has only developed it in 400wt write now. I hope to see it in 600wt soon.
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