Live Stoner Chat Intro and Fungus Gnats prob

[Ottopilotti]

Update - Sorry - been busy replying on other threads - so have got a bit behind here...

Will post new info in next days...

----****----

----****----
To Renaissance Red
for getting me on a
new train of thought
here!

Otto

 

[Ottopilotti]

Just found this - think this may be my xmas read! I really like this
way of treating pests - but I think it is an understanding that has
to be integrated into every type of growing I do - vegetables and
canna both - and will take a good few years of practice!

I only have a small outdoor growing space but the idea of
getting a healthier biosphere for insects is very appealing.

As well as supplying product it looks really useful as
reference source. More free info - love free info!

Organic Pest Control, Biological Solutions for Pest Management, Rincon Vitova Insectaries

 

[Ottopilotti]

Recovered and Growing at last!

Update - have had lots of help and support with this! Thanks to everyone! I have the gnats under control by using a lot of the less invasive advice given on both threads about this grow. Top dressing, longer dry periods - also I have found that using really bone dry coir top dressing for some new beans seems to keep them away completely.

They are now being LSTed to get all the bud sites as close to the lights as possible - this isn't a super grow and is mainly about optimizing what I have been able to rescue.

My sympathy goes out to all those that use hydro methods - it must be really hard to deal with this problem in those circumstances!

How they looking? Here ya go! One week after LSTing - not pretty but doing their thang!



Day 45 - sigh! have had much better results with this strain!

Many thanks to Red for advising me not to chop and start over - learned a lot over the last weeks.

Glad your gals are back on track, friend, and good grief man, we're family! And +reps to ya for the turn around! Still gotta vote for the DE, it's like declaring nuclear war on the bugs.

Think you are right about DE Red - but I've held off because of the thought of breathing in any of this stuff right now was a bit worrying - just getting over a cold/chest cough - and my grow space really is very close to where I hang out - and not very hi-tech!

 

[Waira]

Otto- i saw your question about mosquito dunks,... There are no chemicals in them, in fact, dunks are a biological control agent! They have a form of Bacillus bacteria that is host specific to only certain bugs, nearly identical to the foliar spray used for caterpillars; it gets into their guts and ruins them, causing death,... they are listed as food/garden and animal safe! I've battled with them before, and hands down this works the best and longest; I treated my soil once, and never had trouble again! Ask me if you have other questions about it... :check:

 

[Ottopilotti]

Otto- i saw your question about mosquito dunks,... There are no chemicals in them, in fact, dunks are a biological control agent! They have a form of Bacillus bacteria that is host specific to only certain bugs, nearly identical to the foliar spray used for caterpillars; it gets into their guts and ruins them, causing death,... they are listed as food/garden and animal safe! I've battled with them before, and hands down this works the best and longest; I treated my soil once, and never had trouble again! Ask me if you have other questions about it... :check:

Cheers Waira - Has taken me on quite a journey this problem - thanks for the advice.
Renaissance Red has been really helpful - think you two share a lot of info. He said the same thing.
Getting hold of them where I live is the problem (try not to get too much through the post) -
Red also recommended top dressing with DE earth (all DE is not the same!) - but also not available
in my local farm shop.
Heading a bit further afield today to see what is in our largest garden center - I would have thought
where I live (lots of farmers) these places would be a bit more clued up - but they get finished product
forced on them.

I really like to try and understand what I am doing to my soil mix - so no disrespect to any knowledge here - but I always think double checking is vital.
Very happy to hear that the dunks are bacteria based (Bacillus Thuringiensis Israelensis) - just gotta get
hold of 'em now. Maybe in my local pet shop - for outside pools etc.

Found this which will be my Xmas read I think - excellent stuff - I'm a vegetable gardener too - still learning!

Catalog of Beneficial Insects: list of organic pest control products available from Rincon Vitova Insectaries

I want to get into the nematode stuff as well - but there are a lot of sub species there too. I like the idea of having a lot of beneficial critters in the mix. A soil mix in a pot is certainly not as diverse as the soil I have developed in my garden. Not as robust I suspect. Need to get a decent microscope!

On a positive note I've discovered the value of my local farm store - they had oyster shells and all sorts of weird shit you can't get in garden stores - Red knows lotsa chicken related stuff that is useful for gardening applications. I'll be checking the cow, sheep and horse sections next time around - never thought I'd be doing that! Used chicken shit on my PS plants this summer - worked a treat - and way cheaper than bat guano.

My gals have recovered but are a bit sad looking - this came with a batch of lousy ready made seedling compost (not a cheap one either!) So my lesson from this is to start making my own mix, with local ingredients, from scratch!

I think the larvae just got to the young plants from the get go - so they are really stunted - thin lobes - they look like a sativa strain...
Been like pushing boulders up a hill with these two girls - my first ever big problem - live and learn!

 

[Ottopilotti]

I found this really good article about fungus gnats.

http://www.ksre.ksu.edu/bookstore/pubs/MF2937.pdf

It gives a good overview of the insect and cycle and
deals with the science of the various methods when
dealing with them. Don't underestimate even a
small population. They are like new beans - the
larvae eat loads of your hair roots (have been measured at
5/6 mm length) so they have the energy to fly around for
days copulating and multiplying (you are running a knocking shop!)
Yellow fly traps are good for one thing - checking how bad your infestation is - not curing it!

Also there have been signs that they are
becoming resistant to Bacillus Thuringiensis (subspecies - israelensis)
Biological methods of control can be just as bad as chemical based control!
(that's why we use fruit flies to check genetic mutation - they have short life cycles)

A couple of other things I have learned here:

We are a global community and try as I could the DE
(diatomaeous earth) and Mosquito Dunks are not to
to be had where I live without paying exorbitant prices
online for bucketloads of product + postage for GREEN products.
Another example of petro chemical industry hegemony!
I also don't want to be leaving a trail all over Amazon!

Good news - while getting my exercise looking for this
stuff - I discovered a grow shop in a nearby town...
I don't drive so my wire donkey range is important!
Yay! I can pay cash and leave no trail.
I won't get locked up for doing what I
do - but I can do without the hassle!
So my motto...and I think it is REALLY good advice...
Be safe - Be secure and follow basic protocols at
all times...see good in bad!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjLO_CrZRmM

I aspire to be a small grower (and self testing amateur scientist) that
is able deal with my problems at a very local level. So another
avenue I am exploring is the use of peppermint - and peppermint oil.
Just started that...will post more as I go along...think there might be
a pH issue with it.

I think the biggest problem with fungus gnats is their
ubiquity. We forget how our world works. We go to the
supermarket and buy garden and nursery grown
produce all the time. These products are grown in
mixes that are prime breeding grounds for these
really efficient little buggers and they are a new
pest that belongs to our environment.

They are going to be easy to get. I bought my seedling compost
from an outside storage area - that is a no go scenario for me
from now on...

I reckon build from scratch is going to be they way I go...
And no half decomposed vegetable matter at all!

I was eyeing up the bags of canna compost in the new grow
shop today - all those 5l branded nutrients...

Don't think that is where I want to go - not really teaching me much.

I know a bit more about gnats now!
That's what I get from this plant - a change in attitude!

I've had a lot to think about today - and all the help I've been getting!
So if I missed anything - I'll be back!

Otto

 

[Ottopilotti]

Okay - don't know if I'm boring everybody with this but I'm a persistent bastard and
this is a problem for all soil growers.

I have got the top soil really dry after a few drenches with neem oil - started with a
oven dried compost sand mix - no joy - right at the beginning.

Kept drying the wet mix deep in the pots - I bought it in the first place -
have started drying out pure coir and topdressing with that.

Day by day the gnats have been decreasing - I can actually see them struggling with the dry fibers of
the coir - they don't like it...even though the report I posted said there was no noticeable difference
between peat based compost and coir compost
I think using it dried out as a topdressing really stops the egg laying process - possibly preventing the
hatched flies from getting out...
(hours on a low central heater - this stuff really holds moisture efficiently!)

I don't think a pure sand topdressing is a good idea - stops your plants breathing(?) is the general gardening opinion I came across.

I hope the earthworms I put in will eat the biomass that I guess the eggs/larvae like so much...not an entomologist...

As far as I know Neem is also a systemic natural pesticide - you don't need much and it takes time
for the drench/spray to be absorbed. this is a bit out of my league - maybe some of you science dudes
could say something about this (I could also be wrong - always check your sources!)

Dry 'em out!

Anyway - I seem to have done something right!

 

[astronomy420a]

the problem with top dressing the soil with sand or other stuff, is the gnat's just start useing the drain hole's, i use neem to treat for gnat's, i just had a minor infection, as i treated the top , i also spray the drainage holes, and outside of the pot's.:smokebuds:they are gone. if it get's out of control use mosquito dunk's, they can be had at any hardware store."My 2 cents"

 

[Ottopilotti]

Okay I need to express my happiness about this recovery - only a gnat or two every day now, putting all the plants through a really dry phase and getting the coir top dressing ready to go around the older plants.
Thinking about sticking a few pipes into the sides of the pots to water/feed the roots without making the top dressing damp again...
That's the theory anyway...
Yippee!

 

[krug]

For me Neem should be sprayed(if needed!) on everything(up to flowering!), plant(above and below), pots(all round) and soil surface...Bloody drench it, but only if you really Need too!(I kinda think of it as a threat to `nasties`...Do You Really Want t`**** With Me, MoFo...look around...loads of cool shit for ya elsewhere...y`feel me `Bug`! "toke toking" :xlaugh: