Outdoor Growtogrow.. Michigan Unlimited multi strain organic grow

[Growtogrow]

I didn't think they were HPS. Thanks!

Imo, the CMH speak for themselves and far as spectrum is concerned in that they still produce excellent quality compared LED. I wonder what benefits can be gained from starting at a baseline of full spectrum light. CMH having more green, imo, affects the quality overall compared to LEDs with low CRI.

We already know about the Emerson Effect, Shade Avoidance, Phytochrome manipulation, etc. Stretch can be altered and other things but how to apply these in a setting where the average grower changes cultivars frequently. I think it's a niche thing with commercial benefits but I'm along for the ride just like with tissue culture lol.

That's a great ? Start at the baseline of a full spectrum cmh vs a led with low cri ?
The doctor don't talk to much on CMH.
But bashing hps and mh lights. Great lights low efficiency.
I think the reason that he don't comment too much on CMH lights is because there a great light. I've not heard him say anything really??? I've been going to ask him the question in a email...Why he hasn't published any information or test results using CMH lights. I just haven't yet...
But I think it is because he's got fingers into LEDs with his light detection company Apogee. And that would probably be in direct conflict with his comments to CMH being a great low cost grow light. That if he tells the truth about his finding. Or he would be a buffoon and not credible. So I think he keeps the CMH lights very low-key and don't say a lot because it's in direct conflict against LED lights that he has vested interest in. You wouldn't want to boost the competition. Just saying, that's my thoughts thou on that.
That's why I included those charts from apogee they show the CMH light being a very high-quality light even over the other lights that are all listed there.
But that's an older chart and LEDs have come a long way since those charts. The charts are from a year ago last spring. So they're probably a year-and-a-half old.
Maybe I guess that's why I haven't switched fully over to LEDs yet? Because it's such an emerging technology that I'm kind of waiting for the right time to buy into it.
I have CMH technology that's excellent so that's why I use it. I got it and it doesn't cost much to upgrade it.
If it isn't broken don't fix it right
But Those far red LED light bars, I bought 20 of them, was like 420 bucks last spring.

How to use the technology of the light recipe???
Well what I'm doing right now, using a 31k bulb over the small plant's to ( I believe ) expedite their branch length faster so that I can clone them faster.
From all that I know now I'm on the right track...
There's much more to it.
Adding more blue and green photons later on in the grow could now add more favor, Aromas, the strength of the cannabinoids, more colors, along with other techniques that we already know.

It's just another tool to use in our tool box to grow cannabis.

We just have to find out those recipes that work could use with plants that were working with. It may be an individual thing? it may be a standard thing? I don't know. But it's very interesting and it's had me glued now for a couple years.
It just takes a long time to find out results cuz I got to have at least two identical plants to start with and then it takes how many weeks and weeks and weeks to get results. Then you got to do it over and over again to see if it's conducive or not s***

 

[Death The Cultivator]

That's a great ? Start at the baseline of a full spectrum cmh vs a led with low cri ?
The doctor don't talk to much on CMH.
But bashing hps and mh lights. Great lights low efficiency.
I think the reason that he don't comment too much on CMH lights is because there a great light. I've not heard him say anything really??? I've been going to ask him the question in a email...Why he hasn't published any information or test results using CMH lights. I just haven't yet...
But I think it is because he's got fingers into LEDs with his light detection company Apogee. And that would probably be in direct conflict with his comments to CMH being a great low cost grow light. That if he tells the truth about his finding. Or he would be a buffoon and not credible. So I think he keeps the CMH lights very low-key and don't say a lot because it's in direct conflict against LED lights that he has vested interest in. You wouldn't want to boost the competition. Just saying, that's my thoughts thou on that.
That's why I included those charts from apogee they show the CMH light being a very high-quality light even over the other lights that are all listed there.
But that's an older chart and LEDs have come a long way since those charts. The charts are from a year ago last spring. So they're probably a year-and-a-half old.
Maybe I guess that's why I haven't switched fully over to LEDs yet? Because it's such an emerging technology that I'm kind of waiting for the right time to buy into it.
I have CMH technology that's excellent so that's why I use it. I got it and it doesn't cost much to upgrade it.
If it isn't broken don't fix it right
But Those far red LED light bars, I bought 20 of them, was like 420 bucks last spring.

How to use the technology of the light recipe???
Well what I'm doing right now, using a 31k bulb over the small plant's to ( I believe ) expedite their branch length faster so that I can clone them faster.
From all that I know now I'm on the right track...
There's much more to it.
Adding more blue and green photons later on in the grow could now add more favor, Aromas, the strength of the cannabinoids, more colors, along with other techniques that we already know.

It's just another tool to use in our tool box to grow cannabis.

We just have to find out those recipes that work could use with plants that were working with. It may be an individual thing? it may be a standard thing? I don't know. But it's very interesting and it's had me glued now for a couple years.
It just takes a long time to find out results cuz I got to have at least two identical plants to start with and then it takes how many weeks and weeks and weeks to get results. Then you got to do it over and over again to see if it's conducive or not s***

CMH are pretty great to the extent that I figure them to be superior to the Mars/SF range of lights with some of the bulbs pushing 2.1umols. The difference is initial price with those cheap lights being right around the price of a 315. Price isn't a determinant of quality though as most CMH produce a 92+ cri spectrum, closer to the sun with more blue-green. Compare that to low bin 301b/h on a LED unit with 1.9umols and a 440-660nm spectrum.

Only LEDs I would compare to a CMH would be ChiLED and GLA while the latter has 390-800nm spectrum and 50% more efficacy than a Phillips or nanolux bulb. I'd say it's also it is much more expensive to cover a 3x3 or 5x5 than with the CMH. A Efficiency is important to me while I'm planning my homestead and solar so sans finding a stream for hydroelectric, I want spectrum and efficiency.

There's a grower, I can send you the thread, who compared a DE CMH from nanolux and a cob build both at 900 something watts. LEDs brought yield but the CMH really stimulated the trichome development and anecdotally - they similar in quality.

 

[Growtogrow]

CMH are pretty great to the extent that I figure them to be superior to the Mars/SF range of lights with some of the bulbs pushing 2.1umols. The difference is initial price with those cheap lights being right around the price of a 315. Price isn't a determinant of quality though as most CMH produce a 92+ cri spectrum, closer to the sun with more blue-green. Compare that to low bin 301b/h on a LED unit with 1.9umols and a 440-660nm spectrum.

Only LEDs I would compare to a CMH would be ChiLED and GLA while the latter has 390-800nm spectrum and 50% more efficacy than a Phillips or nanolux bulb. I'd say it's also it is much more expensive to cover a 3x3 or 5x5 than with the CMH. A Efficiency is important to me while I'm planning my homestead and solar so sans finding a stream for hydroelectric, I want spectrum and efficiency.

There's a grower, I can send you the thread, who compared a DE CMH from nanolux and a cob build both at 900 something watts. LEDs brought yield but the CMH really stimulated the trichome development and anecdotally - they similar in quality.

Nice...I would like to read about this grower. Thanks

Yes leds are coming in range now day's. The the technology has gotten so much better with more high quality red LEDs and high quality blue LEDs that are on the market now. That the prices have come down. So it's affordable for the average Joe to buy a good quality light. ( Im even thinking of flipping to LEDs )
The guy I work for just bought 8 new LED light's. I forget the name but their high-end commercial kind. he paid like 1100 a piece. He'll be flowering with them at the end of this month. Ill get the brand name the next time I go out.

 

[Growtogrow]

Very informative

Yes it is food for thought I hope to test more maybe in more detail.

 

[dankstyle J]

Thanks GTG better than the cheap one i have its terrible have to get right up the bud to see it through the tiny eye piece, i resort to using the super macro function of my panasonic digital camera, geeze amazon one you have seems really clear. i could hook it up to a computer without having to upload from the camera and then downside and post to forum

Hey DankGreat to see you back my friend

Thanks friend I'm happy to be here!an back indoor!!!

 

[Growtogrow]

Harvested the 9lb Swiss
The more Blue photon plant and the more Red photon plant.

There is definitely differences.Differences that can be Seen, that can be Measured, and can be Felt, and just maybe smell as well.

In this Simple Red Photons vs Blue Photons test

Re-cap...

The test.. To test 2 identical plants From the Same clone mother,
Be the same age, same soil, water, air, and flowered at the Same time. The same everything.... But Except for one major factor.

The light that they flowered underneath from flip to harvest.

Left light is a 41k 315 cmh, the light on the right is a 30k 315 cmh light.

Pic. 21 days after flipping 12/22/2020
View attachment 1283011
View attachment 1283015










This test wasn't designated
I didn't sit here and think about it at first But after I set up the plants for the flowering stage... I just noticed that I had 2 different lights in the wing reflectors... I thought this was a good opportunity To run a test like this. Since I had been looking into light and what it is to the plant for a long time... I thought this was a good as time as any to go ahead and do it.

So far this is what I know about what took place over this grow.

The 2-9lb Swiss clones were gave to me from the farmer I work for, in November 2020. They had been super cropped already. I super cropped them again and more, right after transplanting.
Pic 11/15/20
View attachment 1283079
Transplanted from 3g fiber pot to 25g fiber. Then put in my custom organic soil mix 11/17/20.
Started flowering on 11/28/20View attachment 1283099
Started seeing flowering sign on 12/05/20. Start the countdown to harvest. ETOH 2/05/21
View attachment 1283100

Along the growth time line.
The more Blue light plant only needed 2 good trimmings. 1 time the week after bud sign and 1 more time 4 weeks after first bud sign.

Blue light plant 1/17/21View attachment 1283210

The more Red light plant needed 2 heavy trimmings and 1 liter to get to harvest. The week of bud sign trim, 2 weeks after bud sign trim, and again a lite trim the first week of the new year. With a pluck here and a pluck there also along the way.
The Red light was throwing leaf's, branches and Bud sites every where all the time the whole grow.

More Red light plant 1/17/21View attachment 1283211

The harvest...

Pics the week and day of harvest

More Red light plant.
View attachment 1283211
View attachment 1283212View attachment 1283213View attachment 1283214View attachment 1283215View attachment 1283216
View attachment 1283217View attachment 1283219

Trimming pile red light plant.
The red trim pile is significantly smaller then the blue trim pile. ( I'll post a side by side pic in the comparison post later on in a separate post. )
View attachment 1283218

I weighed the trimmings from the red. The waste trim weight of 144 grams of leaf's and branches.

Final red dry weight up date when dry.

Stay tuned
I ve ran out of uploadable room for more pics in this post. Continued in next post for the more Blue light plant findings report.

The More Red Light

Average Random more red light buds

Not real dense. But the flavor profile and the aroma profile appear to be in step and possibly even the same as far as intensity goes??? The Red did seem a bit more Citrus taste. And is the aroma of fruity old stale cheese?
Aaa yup..
But my nose isn't what it used to be and neither is my taste buds.

Red Dry final harvest weight
173 grams. The buzz of this strain is ok. I think it about the same as the other blue plant. But I did notice that it hit me faster (the red) than the blue light. I also think the color maybe just a bit less.

The more Blue light plant grew significantly well thou. It had deeper and darker colors than the Red. The hairs of Ginger were more vibrant and brighter green of the bud and bright green of the leaves were more bright and vibrant.
The overall health of the plant just looked to be better than the more Red Spectrum plant.
( I have answers for this, they'll come later on in this report )

More Blue light plant 12/25/20 before the last full trim. ( "less" leaf's and bud sites are noticeable )
View attachment 1283252
Compared to the Red light plant

Red light plant 12/25/20. Before 2nd full trim. There is "More" leaf's branches, and Bud sitesView attachment 1283253
Maybe that's a good thing or maybe it's not???. Thing's to ponder on

More Red photon plant bud'sView attachment 1283254View attachment 1283255View attachment 1283256View attachment 1283257View attachment 1283258

Compared to
More Blue photon plant Bud picsView attachment 1283259View attachment 1283263View attachment 1283260View attachment 1283261View attachment 1283262
Lots of color in the more Blue photon plant.
Answer.
The reason we see more color in the Blue plant vs the Red Photon plant is because the UV is stronger with the 41k bulb. The plant is protecting itself from the UV so it throws out more color to protect itself from the UV.
The longer wave length of the 30k more Red photons. Tell's the plant
( that is being shaded ) So the plant will grow more leaves and longer branches bud sites and stretch to the sunlight to collect more light for photosynthesis.
Confirmed.

Waste trim from the more Blue Photon plant. There was a lot more waste trim at harvest compared to the Red.

(Red waste 144g vs Blue 165g)


Blue waste trim 165gView attachment 1283265

Red waste trim 144gView attachment 1283270

Dry yield flower weight. When available will be up dated.


So the differences are pretty clear. So now how to use this information?

Light Recipes are a emerging science.

Different light can influence flavors can influence THC production THCV production, all of the cannabinoids are affected by light. The amount of foliage, Bud sites, Branch production, Colors, are all influenced by light.
We could see the difference from the Red vs Blue photon. The Red had lots of Bud sites lots of lighter green foliage.
When the Blue had a little less Bud sites but had lots of vibrant colors, also less stage trimming.

( I don't know about the aromas or the flavors yet from my own science?)
" But will soon"
But ( "The science of dr. Bruce Bugbee says that these will all be enhanced due to the more Blue photons." )

Now it's just a matter of coming up with light recipes.

I'm pushing forward with every grow to try and come up with light recipes and document my work so it can be repeat over and over again to come up with conclusive results. And out of these results I can dictate a plant outcomes do to light recipes, along with other factors.

More to come in updated as information becomes available to me and I've concluded test that I've done to give you firsthand knowledge of what I've discovered.


I hope this is helpful tidbit of knowledge to help you tailor your grow more to your likings or Pacific yield or flavor profile.
Thanks for stopping by

9#Swiss
The More Blue Light plant Final Dry Weight.

Random blue light buds on a paper plate

Blue final dry weight 146 grams.
The Blue is a bit denser, The Aromas were a bit strong but still the same citrus n old fruity stale cheese, the taste may have been a little bit different than the red a little bit but yet very similar. The color's a bit brighter.
The blue light buzz may have been a little heavier then the red.

But there was a big definite difference in dry weight.
Red 173g Blue 146g
Also a definite difference in the amount of trimming. The red was trimmed 2 times more then the blue.

I hope to perform more of these tests in the future as time and my budget allows me to.
It was a fun little test for just being off the hip and I learned quite a bit. My findings aren't conclusive but it still gives us all food for thought.

Growing this plant is still an Unwritten book there's still more work to be done.

I hope this was helpful

 

[WildBill]

A quite fun and interesting test.

 

[Jraven]

So the main difference is weight sounds like. Pretty big difference there. Needs more testing :smoking:

 

[Growtogrow]

A quite fun and interesting test.

Yeah I thought it was interesting to know the outcome of these 2 plant's. Give me some ideas on how to maybe taylor light recipes to an effect.
Right now I have the pineapple poison and a wild Thailand underneath a lot of heavy red light right. To see if I can make more bud sites and longer branches quicker??? They're stretching nicely and they are Growing great. They've been under the heavy red light for 7 days. Im about to flipp them this weekend.

 

[Jraven]

Those do look good