Outdoor Growtogrow.. Michigan Unlimited multi strain organic grow

[Growtogrow]

The Clones are looking pretty good. Whatever I did it looks like it did it right. They're green healthy they're actually moving around. I don't think I've ever had my clones ever in fact I know I've never seen them move like these ones are moving

I hope that's a good thing. Usually my clones don't look healthy they look like they're going to die and sometimes they look like they're going to die and they live go figure

 

[Growtogrow]

Harvested the 9lb Swiss
The more Blue photon plant and the more Red photon plant.

There is definitely differences.Differences that can be Seen, that can be Measured, and can be Felt, and just maybe smell as well.

In this Simple Red Photons vs Blue Photons test

Re-cap...

The test.. To test 2 identical plants From the Same clone mother,
Be the same age, same soil, water, air, and flowered at the Same time. The same everything.... But Except for one major factor.

The light that they flowered underneath from flip to harvest.

Left light is a 41k 315 cmh, the light on the right is a 30k 315 cmh light.

Pic. 21 days after flipping 12/22/2020

This test wasn't designated
I didn't sit here and think about it at first But after I set up the plants for the flowering stage... I just noticed that I had 2 different lights in the wing reflectors... I thought this was a good opportunity To run a test like this. Since I had been looking into light and what it is to the plant for a long time... I thought this was a good as time as any to go ahead and do it.

So far this is what I know about what took place over this grow.

The 2-9lb Swiss clones were gave to me from the farmer I work for, in November 2020. They had been super cropped already. I super cropped them again and more, right after transplanting.
Pic 11/15/20

Transplanted from 3g fiber pot to 25g fiber. Then put in my custom organic soil mix 11/17/20.
Started flowering on 11/28/20

Started seeing flowering sign on 12/05/20. Start the countdown to harvest. ETOH 2/05/21

Along the growth time line.
The more Blue light plant only needed 2 good trimmings. 1 time the week after bud sign and 1 more time 4 weeks after first bud sign.

Blue light plant 1/17/21

The more Red light plant needed 2 heavy trimmings and 1 liter to get to harvest. The week of bud sign trim, 2 weeks after bud sign trim, and again a lite trim the first week of the new year. With a pluck here and a pluck there also along the way.
The Red light was throwing leaf's, branches and Bud sites every where all the time the whole grow.

More Red light plant 1/17/21

The harvest...

Pics the week and day of harvest

More Red light plant.

Trimming pile red light plant.
The red trim pile is significantly smaller then the blue trim pile. ( I'll post a side by side pic in the comparison post later on in a separate post. )

I weighed the trimmings from the red. The waste trim weight of 144 grams of leaf's and branches.

Final red dry weight up date when dry.

Stay tuned
I ve ran out of uploadable room for more pics in this post. Continued in next post for the more Blue light plant findings report.

 

[Growtogrow]

The more Blue light plant grew significantly well thou. It had deeper and darker colors than the Red. The hairs of Ginger were more vibrant and brighter green of the bud and bright green of the leaves were more bright and vibrant.
The overall health of the plant just looked to be better than the more Red Spectrum plant.
( I have answers for this, they'll come later on in this report )

More Blue light plant 12/25/20 before the last full trim. ( "less" leaf's and bud sites are noticeable )

Compared to the Red light plant

Red light plant 12/25/20. Before 2nd full trim. There is "More" leaf's branches, and Bud sites

Maybe that's a good thing or maybe it's not???. Thing's to ponder on

More Red photon plant bud's

Compared to
More Blue photon plant Bud pics

Lots of color in the more Blue photon plant.
Answer.
The reason we see more color in the Blue plant vs the Red Photon plant is because the UV is stronger with the 41k bulb. The plant is protecting itself from the UV so it throws out more color to protect itself from the UV.
The longer wave length of the 30k more Red photons. Tell's the plant
( that is being shaded ) So the plant will grow more leaves and longer branches bud sites and stretch to the sunlight to collect more light for photosynthesis.
Confirmed.

Waste trim from the more Blue Photon plant. There was a lot more waste trim at harvest compared to the Red.

(Red waste 144g vs Blue 165g)


Blue waste trim 165g

Red waste trim 144g

Dry yield flower weight. When available will be up dated.


So the differences are pretty clear. So now how to use this information?

Light Recipes are a emerging science.

Different light can influence flavors can influence THC production THCV production, all of the cannabinoids are affected by light. The amount of foliage, Bud sites, Branch production, Colors, are all influenced by light.
We could see the difference from the Red vs Blue photon. The Red had lots of Bud sites lots of lighter green foliage.
When the Blue had a little less Bud sites but had lots of vibrant colors, also less stage trimming.

( I don't know about the aromas or the flavors yet from my own science?)
" But will soon"
But ( "The science of dr. Bruce Bugbee says that these will all be enhanced due to the more Blue photons." )

Now it's just a matter of coming up with light recipes.

I'm pushing forward with every grow to try and come up with light recipes and document my work so it can be repeat over and over again to come up with conclusive results. And out of these results I can dictate a plant outcomes do to light recipes, along with other factors.

More to come in updated as information becomes available to me and I've concluded test that I've done to give you firsthand knowledge of what I've discovered.


I hope this is helpful tidbit of knowledge to help you tailor your grow more to your likings or Pacific yield or flavor profile.
Thanks for stopping by

 

[Growtogrow]

All the little ones got a new lights yesterday. I also moved every plant to grow them up longer faster. All of the plants are under more Red photon spectrum's. 30k n 31k cmh with 7 - 24" far red led light bars in the new light. Over the SSSC Pineapple poison and the Wild Thailand. Plus 4 small one's.

The bulk of the little ones are in the flower room under a 31k cmh growing long branches to clone.

Here we go from grow to grow

 

[Death The Cultivator]

The more Blue light plant grew significantly well thou. It had deeper and darker colors than the Red. The hairs of Ginger were more vibrant and brighter green of the bud and bright green of the leaves were more bright and vibrant.
The overall health of the plant just looked to be better than the more Red Spectrum plant.
( I have answers for this, they'll come later on in this report )

More Blue light plant 12/25/20 before the last full trim. ( "less" leaf's and bud sites are noticeable )
View attachment 1283252
Compared to the Red light plant

Red light plant 12/25/20. Before 2nd full trim. There is "More" leaf's branches, and Bud sitesView attachment 1283253
Maybe that's a good thing or maybe it's not???. Thing's to ponder on

More Red photon plant bud'sView attachment 1283254View attachment 1283255View attachment 1283256View attachment 1283257View attachment 1283258

Compared to
More Blue photon plant Bud picsView attachment 1283259View attachment 1283263View attachment 1283260View attachment 1283261View attachment 1283262
Lots of color in the more Blue photon plant.
Answer.
The reason we see more color in the Blue plant vs the Red Photon plant is because the UV is stronger with the 41k bulb. The plant is protecting itself from the UV so it throws out more color to protect itself from the UV.
The longer wave length of the 30k more Red photons. Tell's the plant
( that is being shaded ) So the plant will grow more leaves and longer branches bud sites and stretch to the sunlight to collect more light for photosynthesis.
Confirmed.

Waste trim from the more Blue Photon plant. There was a lot more waste trim at harvest compared to the Red.

(Red waste 144g vs Blue 165g)


Blue waste trim 165gView attachment 1283265

Red waste trim 144gView attachment 1283270

Dry yield flower weight. When available will be up dated.


So the differences are pretty clear. So now how to use this information?

Light Recipes are a emerging science.

Different light can influence flavors can influence THC production THCV production, all of the cannabinoids are affected by light. The amount of foliage, Bud sites, Branch production, Colors, are all influenced by light.
We could see the difference from the Red vs Blue photon. The Red had lots of Bud sites lots of lighter green foliage.
When the Blue had a little less Bud sites but had lots of vibrant colors, also less stage trimming.

( I don't know about the aromas or the flavors yet from my own science?)
" But will soon"
But ( "The science of dr. Bruce Bugbee says that these will all be enhanced due to the more Blue photons." )

Now it's just a matter of coming up with light recipes.

I'm pushing forward with every grow to try and come up with light recipes and document my work so it can be repeat over and over again to come up with conclusive results. And out of these results I can dictate a plant outcomes do to light recipes, along with other factors.

More to come in updated as information becomes available to me and I've concluded test that I've done to give you firsthand knowledge of what I've discovered.


I hope this is helpful tidbit of knowledge to help you tailor your grow more to your likings or Pacific yield or flavor profile.
Thanks for stopping by

I thought the increased blue spectrum was stimulating more Anthocyanin productions.

When I considered doing recipes, ScynceLED and Bridgelux Vestas were the best options. My issue was the lack of benefit in a non commercial setting and outside of laboratories I was never too sure how important it was. I pick mothers based on structure and the literature for light recipes seemed to indicate dramatic restructuring because of light differences.

Looking at your side by side, wish you had a spectrometer, idk if either was preferable especially with such a small difference in excess biomass. A complete spectrum with adequate blue/cyan/green and balanced FR/DR would mitigate the shade avoidance response while hitting those spectral ranges for phytochrome activation.

I'm not criticizing you or anything because you have taken the time and resources to test what many others can't. The general impression I got reading back through everything is muddled by the use of HIDs. These aren't CMH right? CMH are tuned for horticulture from what I can tell compared to a MH/HPS that were used for street lighting.

That's from hortilux super HPS.

Even if I can control morphology does that mean I change how I select phenos? I honestly thought columnar non branchy cultivars would be the standard in commercial options. With a balanced UVA-Deep FR spectrum that runs from seed to harvest, where does manipulating a certain spectrum as benefit?

Anyways, this was super interesting. I think you'd be deadly with a small lab and a government budget lol.

 

[Growtogrow]

Thanks yes there's a lot to ponder and I'm going to get back to your questions I'm a little busy right now and I can't pull everything up like I'd like to. But yes there's a lot to consider and Ponder and rules don't apply here..not yet.
To pacific strains they may be different. Again it's emerging science and it's just becoming known what things we can do and see with light. Nothing is in stone yet. So keep an open mind.

I thought the increased blue spectrum was stimulating more Anthocyanin productions.

When I considered doing recipes, ScynceLED and Bridgelux Vestas were the best options. My issue was the lack of benefit in a non commercial setting and outside of laboratories I was never too sure how important it was. I pick mothers based on structure and the literature for light recipes seemed to indicate dramatic restructuring because of light differences.

Looking at your side by side, wish you had a spectrometer, idk if either was preferable especially with such a small difference in excess biomass. A complete spectrum with adequate blue/cyan/green and balanced FR/DR would mitigate the shade avoidance response while hitting those spectral ranges for phytochrome activation.

I'm not criticizing you or anything because you have taken the time and resources to test what many others can't. The general impression I got reading back through everything is muddled by the use of HIDs. These aren't CMH right? CMH are tuned for horticulture from what I can tell compared to a MH/HPS that were used for street lighting.

That's from hortilux super HPS.

Even if I can control morphology does that mean I change how I select phenos? I honestly thought columnar non branchy cultivars would be the standard in commercial options. With a balanced UVA-Deep FR spectrum that runs from seed to harvest, where does manipulating a certain spectrum as benefit?

Anyways, this was super interesting. I think you'd be deadly with a small lab and a government budget lol.

 

[Growtogrow]

I thought the increased blue spectrum was stimulating more Anthocyanin productions.

When I considered doing recipes, ScynceLED and Bridgelux Vestas were the best options. My issue was the lack of benefit in a non commercial setting and outside of laboratories I was never too sure how important it was. I pick mothers based on structure and the literature for light recipes seemed to indicate dramatic restructuring because of light differences.

Looking at your side by side, wish you had a spectrometer, idk if either was preferable especially with such a small difference in excess biomass. A complete spectrum with adequate blue/cyan/green and balanced FR/DR would mitigate the shade avoidance response while hitting those spectral ranges for phytochrome activation.

I'm not criticizing you or anything because you have taken the time and resources to test what many others can't. The general impression I got reading back through everything is muddled by the use of HIDs. These aren't CMH right? CMH are tuned for horticulture from what I can tell compared to a MH/HPS that were used for street lighting.

That's from hortilux super HPS.

Even if I can control morphology does that mean I change how I select phenos? I honestly thought columnar non branchy cultivars would be the standard in commercial options. With a balanced UVA-Deep FR spectrum that runs from seed to harvest, where does manipulating a certain spectrum as benefit?

Anyways, this was super interesting. I think you'd be deadly with a small lab and a government budget lol.

Well let's see brother if I can answer some of your questions right now.

Well is an easy one.
Yes these are all 315 CMH lights.
I don't use HPS or MH lights unless I have to. I have HPS but I do not use them, they're only backups. They are not very efficient. But Ive got two 400 HPS ballasts and a couple of light bulbs in my box of tricks
Here are the specks on the cmh or lec bulbs that I'm using.

So these are my cheep simple 315 cmh lights. I have a 10k also. But it's super deep UV. I need uv glasses just to fire it up.

So spectrum is needed to grow our beloved cannabis. Green people think green doesn't affect the plant whatsoever the green Spectrum actually affects the plant a lot and it goes deep into the leaf propagating photosynthesis with the green Spectrum.


I suggest looking on YouTube for the dr. Bruce Bugbee. Check out his teachings.

Also the kis podcast from 2 weeks ago. Good info there. A interview with the good doctor. it was a great help to hear what he had to say about growing cannabis and light influences on the bio structure of the plant.

Yes input is what we all need. I love that we all can converse and talk about this. I don't know everything
I don't even pretend to know everything. I learned from everybody all the time that's how I know what I know now.
I appreciate questions and answers and places to read about other studies that are relevant and current. With reputable scientist or professors.

Thanks

 

[Growtogrow]

Thanks for the rep @Jraven @damien50

 

[Death The Cultivator]

Well let's see brother if I can answer some of your questions right now.

Well is an easy one.
Yes these are all 315 CMH lights.
I don't use HPS or MH lights unless I have to. I have HPS but I do not use them, they're only backups. They are not very efficient. But Ive got two 400 HPS ballasts and a couple of light bulbs in my box of tricks
Here are the specks on the cmh or lec bulbs that I'm using.
View attachment 1283313View attachment 1283314View attachment 1283315View attachment 1283316View attachment 1283317View attachment 1283318
So these are my cheep simple 315 cmh lights. I have a 10k also. But it's super deep UV. I need uv glasses just to fire it up.

So spectrum is needed to grow our beloved cannabis. Green people think green doesn't affect the plant whatsoever the green Spectrum actually affects the plant a lot and it goes deep into the leaf propagating photosynthesis with the green Spectrum.


I suggest looking on YouTube for the dr. Bruce Bugbee. Check out his teachings.View attachment 1283324View attachment 1283325View attachment 1283326View attachment 1283327
Also the kis podcast from 2 weeks ago. Good info there. A interview with the good doctor. it was a great help to hear what he had to say about growing cannabis and light influences on the bio structure of the plant.

Yes input is what we all need. I love that we all can converse and talk about this. I don't know everything
I don't even pretend to know everything. I learned from everybody all the time that's how I know what I know now.
I appreciate questions and answers and places to read about other studies that are relevant and current. With reputable scientist or professors.

Thanks

I didn't think they were HPS. Thanks!

Imo, the CMH speak for themselves and far as spectrum is concerned in that they still produce excellent quality compared LED. I wonder what benefits can be gained from starting at a baseline of full spectrum light. CMH having more green, imo, affects the quality overall compared to LEDs with low CRI.

We already know about the Emerson Effect, Shade Avoidance, Phytochrome manipulation, etc. Stretch can be altered and other things but how to apply these in a setting where the average grower changes cultivars frequently. I think it's a niche thing with commercial benefits but I'm along for the ride just like with tissue culture lol.

 

[Jpkindbud]

Thanks for the rep @Jraven @damien50

Very informative