Indoor Feroled 357 LED v HID 250w dual spectrum

[littlebopeep]

I've read a lot about the LED grow light and all of the benefits - reduced electricity consumption, lack of heat issues and so on. but what I have not been convinced about reading through hundreds of "my grow" histories on forums, is:

WILL A LED GROW LIGHT GROW BETTER BIGGER BUDS?
And the only way to quantify if a led grow light will produce more grams per watt than a HID grow lamp is to stop reading and start growing! and for the comparison to work both lighting system need to run with the same environments: genetics(strain),grower,environments and size of the area (to the best of my ability).

The two grows both have fan,,environmentally controlled extractor, temp and rh meters and a grow area measuring 45cm x 90cm after sexing they will both have 3-4 super autos in 2 gal pots grown in a 50/50 coco/perlite soiless mix. the nutrients used will be the same for both systems as and when dictated by the needs of the individual plant.
And obviously they will have the same grower!

The only difference will be the type of light in each room one will be a Fero357 LED grow light and the other will be a 250W HID with a dual spectrum sunmaster bulb.

Day 1-7 no comparison yet
On day I placed 20 mi5 super autos and 18 white widow super autos to germinate. (All seeds were kindly subsidised by originalsensibleseeds - many thanks) and out of a total of 48 seeds I'm pleased to say 45 germinated and developed into 7 day old seedlings



Here's a pic of the seedlings day 6 under LED 357

I decided to use the Fero LED grow light to grow all of the seedlings for the first two weeks. as I wanted to see how good the light coverage is. A good way to physically see the coverage of a light is to use a large number of seedlings as a tester: those on the outer limits of the optimum light area will begin to lean towards the light source. because they are young plants you can see the effect within a matter of hours. A good range for the Fero357 seemed to be 60cm x 60cm. Bear in mind the actual grow will end up having 3-4 flowering female plants under each grow light.

- all plants were watered with plain water ph'd to 6.2
- the average room temperature is around 23ºC
- RH 55% (need to work on this)

All plants seem to be doing well.

 

[littlebopeep]

Here's a bit of a catch up

As you may remember from my last post on this comparative grow, I used the LED grow light 357 as a seedling light to start all the plants off. At day 11 I divided the seedlings into 2 areas, each experiencing the same environmental factors, food etc. At this stage they were still in 10cm pots, where they stayed until sexing at around day 16. Interestingly the plants under the LED grow light were quickest to show their sex.



Here's the lucky Daddy!

Of the 17 MI5 autoflowering plants, 9 ended up female. Of the males, I took the tallest, most flowering, smelliest boy (using my own characteristics as signs of a fertile male ) and placed him and two of the nicest MI5s and one of my only two female white widows, in their own love nest. They were then treated to several days of my best Barry White impersonations to help get them in the mood. After all the flowers had burst and my gentle puffing had hopefully pollinated the three females, the mums to be were gently washed down (so that there was no errant pollen at risk of fertilizing my other females) and placed back in their respective grow rooms.

As to the white widows, there has been a major disappointment. Now back in the day, white widow used to be one of my favorite indoor plants. I had a unsatisfying result with them this year when I tried a couple outside: they just suffered particularly in the late summer heat of 40ºC. Unfortunately the autoflowering variety is not yet stable, and of the 20 seeds, only two turned out to be autoflowering. The others are going to have to go into a separate grow room altogether on standard photo-period lighting: they are far too nice a plant to throw away. C'est la vie!

On day 19 then, when all sexing had become apparent. I potted on all the females into larger pots with a 50:50 coco/perlite mix. I'm much happier with this growing medium - readers of the dwarf auto grow will know I had problems with over watering in soil under LED grow lights. With the coco/perlite mix, it runs like a pseudo hydroponic system (well almost). They get a half strength vegetative feed every two days when I water with pH 6.1. The whole room is controlled by a thermostatically controlled 5" extractor. The air coming into the chambers is never above 20ºC but has dropped as low as 16ºC. This is something I'm going to have to work on, especially with the LED as its not producing hardly any heat of its own. The HID has a 18" 70 watt oscillating fan cooling the area down, whereas the LED has only a 6" 20 watt static fan circulating air. Lights are on for 21 hours with a 3 hour period of darkness.



MI5s under HID 250 grow light (day 22)

temperature range: 17ºC - 26ºC
rH: 40 - 70
average height 5.5"
no of nodes: 5
node interval space: 1"
solution uptake every water (approx): 4.5L for 4 x 10L pots



MI5s under Fero357 LED (day 22)
temperature range: 17ºC - 23ºC
rH: 50 - 70
average height 4.5"
no of nodes: 6
node interval space: 1/2" to 3/4"
solution uptake every water (approx): 3.5L for 4 x 10L pots

Its a simple conclusion at this stage in the game. The LED grow light is producing plants that are shorter yet with more nodes and a closer node space than the HID. They are also taking up less water. I only wish I was growing these hydroponically so that I could give accurate nutrient uptake details using a CF pen (next time ..). Its fascinating stuff, and I can't decide if I prefer the taller plants or the shorter ones with more nodes: if they weren't autoflowering, then the latter, but given the vegetative stage is so short, maybe the former has it .. who knows? the only way to tell is in the pudding when flowering is finished and we get to see (& weigh) the buds. What do you guys think?

 

[~Cupcake~]

A blessed idea littlebopeep.. I think its great that you decided to do such an important log of your ''test'' run... hopefully it turns well and may the HID Lights win.. =]..

keep us updated.
best of luck with your grow man... Swelling Buds karma sent your way.

/Subbed.

~Cupcake

 

[Muddy]

This is going to be interesting to watch. I've done a side by side of veg under LED and MH/CFL that gave a small edge to the LED, but haven't done a full comparison grow. Raise you LED up some. That will stretch the nodes out for you. I usually put mine at about 20" and once the accelerated growth starts, raise it about 2" every other day throughout veg. That seems to keep the node spacing at about 1".

 

[TshirtNinja]

im not sure your comparing apples to apples watt wise but nice experiment. looking forward to your grow. i am about to do a tent with hps for the first time myself after a while under led's and t5ho fixtures. your plants look great and keep it up.

 

[littlebopeep]

A blessed idea littlebopeep.. I think its great that you decided to do such an important log of your ''test'' run... hopefully it turns well and may the HID Lights win.. =]..

keep us updated.
best of luck with your grow man... Swelling Buds karma sent your way.

/Subbed.

~Cupcake

Ty bud I will do my best to keep it fair and a true comparison to be honest the hid seems to have the edge so far

"Muddy
This is going to be interesting to watch. I've done a side by side of veg under LED and MH/CFL that gave a small edge to the LED, but haven't done a full comparison grow. Raise you LED up some. That will stretch the nodes out for you. I usually put mine at about 20" and once the accelerated growth starts, raise it about 2" every other day throughout veg. That seems to keep the node spacing at about 1". "
ty muddy yes the lights are about 20" and have been for a while as you might have noticed I have a time lag on this one and the MI5's under the hid seem to be responding about an inch a day but the mi5 are a little bit behind at this stage I will talk about it more on the next update once again tx m8

TshirtNinja
im not sure your comparing apples to apples watt wise but nice experiment. looking forward to your grow. i am about to do a tent with hps for the first time myself after a while under led's and t5ho fixtures. your plants look great and keep it up.

thank you t-shirt ninja yes you are right the Fero 357 draws a 120 watts compared to the 250watts hps as as I mentioned to muddy above I will talk about this on my next update TY for popping in take a seat

 

[littlebopeep]

day 39

My last post showed the plants - 8 MI5s (2 of them fertilized for a small seed run) divided up underneath a 250 watt HPS dual spectrum and a Fero LED 357 - and marked progress up to day 22. This post does a bit of catching up, and brings us to day 39.
The grow has progressed without hiccups for the past 17 days. I've lowered the pH slightly to 5.8 and increased the vegetative food to 3/4 strength applied with every water. (Plants are in a coco-perlite mix and get watered every other day until there is a 25% runoff). I'm still using veg nutrients at this stage - even though the plants are in flower - as the breeder of this strain recommends keeping them in veg food until upward growth has stopped around week 6.
I've been taking advice from some of you experienced guys who use LEDs for autoflowering grows, which is basically that the reason why my MI5s are so short under the LEDs is that they need to be encouraged to stretch up to the plentiful light source ... hmmm seems like everything I used to know about growing under HPS is being put into reverse! Still, they have some excellent documented autoflowering grows, so I'm following suit. The LED is (for now) raised to 20" above plant tip whilst the HPS, being only a 250 watt is managing to get as close as 12".
I have received an email from FeroLED saying that they are going to discontinue the 357 range (unless specifically requested) as they have a new 4G series with a 90º double lens, high powered grow lights. This new range has loads of new pluses, and if you want to read the technical info, contact them I've been lucky enough to get my hands on two of these lights - one is the sexy looking top of the range Fero 900 4G - and the other is the 360 4G.



Now the draw on the 357 3G is only 120 watts and I'm trying to compare it with a 250 HPS: in my opinion its in danger of losing the showdown. Its a fantastic mother/seedling light, and I do intend using it as an example of how to do a stealth grow box, but right now, pitching LED against HID, it just isn't quite man enough. The new 360 4G however, has a 256 watt draw, so is more competing like for like. Only wish I'd had it 39 days ago! Oh well, its an excuse for another showdown trial in 2012! For now I'll swap the older 357 model for the new 360 4G for the rest of this grow.

MI5s under LED grow lights:

Temperature range: 18ºC - 25.5ºC

RH: 55- 72

Heights: 25cm, 25cm, 32.5cm (9 3/4", 9 3/4", 12 3/4")

Solution uptake every water: 4.2 L for 4 x 10L pots




There's starting to be a marked difference in height between the two groups, and a slight difference in flower formation. Here are the 3 cannabis plants under the 250 HPS:


MI5s under HID grow light

Temperature range: 18ºC - 27.5ºC

RH: 50 - 72

Heights: 34cm, 40cm, 47cm (13 3/4"; 15 3/4"; 18 1/2")

Solution uptake every water: 5.5 L for 4 x 10L pots




There's one point I think we should take into consideration with this as I am noticing two different phenotypes emerging in the MI5 strain. One type is taller, more lanky, whilst the other is about 25% shorter with more side branches. I say this because the smaller of the 3 under the HID looks very much like 2 of those growing under the LED. With only 6 plants in play, there is a possibility that chance played a role in the distribution of plant phenotype - or is it wholly down to the lights?
OK so that's it for another week. According to the seed statistics, we are now roughly half way into this grow. Time for you little beauties to start putting on bud growth!
Postscript - the three mums who were fertilized with the MI5 male are all happily pregnant - you can see the seeds swelling inside the flowers. The Barry White medley seems to have worked!

tx for all your help and interest guys for making this experiment a plausible fair comparison

happy tokin

 

[astronomy420a]

good experiment! i would like to tag along with your permission? i think there is quite a bit of difference in the hieght of the two lights, and 120watts on a led light is not much, i dont think it can compeate with a 250w hid, i run what the company says is 240w, and 135w or 375w total, put a meter on the lights and they draw about 280watts, so that would be more equal. to a 250w hid.

 

[Muddy]

What you're seeing are the two common phenotypes for the Mi5, the single cola with a few side branches, and the one with many side branches. In my experience the single cola ones tend to finish a week or two faster than the other ones. There is also a bush pheno lurking in their gene pool, but it seems to be a lot less common than in some other strains like AA or Onyx.

Your grow is looking good. Always interested in watching these side by side comparisons.

 

[TshirtNinja]

honestly on your assessment of the "needed stretch" i will disagree with you. one of the main reasons i use led is they stunt vertical growth to the extent that i get 1" node spacing which is the ideal length for most autos. your ladies look great though and keep up the good work this is a neat side by side. figure out that drawn wattage and get back to us.