Hope you got it sorted komach
Dutch Passion Dutch Passion AutoXtreme : by KO in DWC under FERO LED's
- Thread starter komach
- Start date
Thanks Duggy, I really hope so
so do Ko, it has been a tough start to the grow but I hope you have it all coming under control, best of luck with the rest of it
If you search long enough you will find !
Finely I found the solution on the general hydroponic web site
Finely I found the solution on the general hydroponic web site
Still need to make test res to be 100% sureTIP – How to buffer reverse osmosis water
Here is a great tip for those who use reverse osmosis water to buffer your water and help stabilize pH. There are two ways, both efficient.
- For those who prefer simplicity, all you have to do is add 20% tap water to your reverse osmosis water.
- For the purists who do not want to use tap water, or whose water is particularly bad, here are two easy steps:
1 – First increase your pH up to 10.0 with pH Up or potassium carbonate
2 – Then bring it down to 6.0 with pH Down
In both cases you’ll obtain water well adapted to hydroponic nutritive solutions, while avoiding untimely pH fluctuations.
Fingers crossed ko
seymour-buds
autoflowering scientist
seek and thee shall find
nice 1 komach
nice 1 komach
My test Res changed 0.5+-0.1 in 15h. However I would not advice this method to anybody (Need much of ph+ to rise it to 10) and it is really difficult to drop it to exact ph6 and than after all nutrition mix to rise it to 5.7-5.8 . And adding baking soda and cal/mag + ph balancing with ph+ 10 and drop ph- 6 should do the trick. More on this when I will make 2-nd res
Some more reading I have found
The information was taken from here
Lab Analysis of RO Water
You will note in the lab test of Reverse Osmosis water that a total EC of 0.02 is present. There is 1ppm of calcium, <1ppm of magnesium, 10.96ppm of bicarbonate, 2.07ppm of sodium and 2.13ppm of chloride. In very simple terms this is a vast improvement over our earlier mains water lab analysis example where there was 41.9 ppm of calcium, 14.4ppm of magnesium, 161ppm of sodium and 202ppm of chloride (extreme levels of sodium chloride).
Additionally, if I were to test any mains water treated with Reverse Osmosis, no matter what elements were present in the mains supply, at what levels, the RO treated water would remain consistent due to removing these elements during filtration. What this means is consistently pure water every time.
However, there are a couple of things that you need to be aware of in order to get the best results with RO water.
RO Water and pH Stability
RO filtering of mains water not only removes undesirable compounds but can also remove desirable compounds in the form of bicarbonates (HC03-) and carbonates (CO32-) which create a natural pH buffering system via adding alkalinity to water. Ideally it is best to correct this after RO filtration using sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or another carbonate or bicarbonate product (e.g. potassium bicarbonate, calcium carbonate etc). We’ll talk more about this in a second.
What is Alkalinity?
Alkalinity is the buffering capacity of a water type. It measures the ability of water to neutralize acids and bases thereby maintaining a fairly stable pH. Water that is a good buffer contains compounds, such as bicarbonates, carbonates, and hydroxides, which combine with H+ ions from the water thereby raising the pH (more basic) of the water. Without this buffering capacity, pH can become unstable.
Correcting/Creating Alkalinity in RO Water With Baking Soda
Baking soda is a white crystalline powder (NaHCO3) better known to chemists as sodium bicarbonate, bicarbonate of soda, sodium hydrogen carbonate, or sodium acid carbonate. It is classified as an acid salt, manufactured using either the ‘Solvay Process’ (sodium chloride and calcium carbonate) or by reacting carbon dioxide with sodium hydroxide. It is known as an amphoteric chemical, which means that it can act as an acid or a base. Solutions of sodium bicarbonate are mildly alkaline because of the formation of hydroxide ions (OH-) and the weak carbonic acid (H2CO3).
Baking soda is readily available through supermarkets. The key thing to know when using baking soda at 20ppm to raise alkalinity is the products purity. However, as baking soda from supermarkets is food grade it is high purity with low contaminants. Typically the purity will be between 99.5 – 100%.
20ppm of Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) can be used to increase alkalinity in RO water. This adds to the total bicarbonates in the water, raising the alkalinity. Alkalinity (or carbonate alkalinity in this case) and pH level are closely related, so it is important to test and correct pH after adjusting alkalinity. There are many common natural compounds that increase alkalinity but carbonates make up most of the total alkalinity in the natural environment. This is due to the abundance of CO2 and carbonate rocks.
Note: Other products that can be used for raising alkalinity are potassium carbonate, potassium bicarbonate, and calcium carbonate (lime). However, these products are not as readily available as baking soda, or in the case of calcium carbonate are less water soluble.
Chem Made Easy – Calculating how much baking soda is required to buffer RO water
To establish how much baking soda is needed to achieve 20ppm in solution go to this takes you to a page where you will find our “DILUTION CONCENTRATION CALCULATOR” – use this to calculate how much baking soda you will need to add to your nutrient reservoir/tank to achieve 20ppm in solution.
What you will see is this.
Okay, no hardcore chemistry here – the calculator does all the equations for you. First off, let’s say that we know the baking soda is 99% purity. In the far left box (“ppm Required”) enter 20 (Ie. You require 20ppm). To the box next to that enter how many litres you are adding the baking soda to. If you’re living in a country such as the US where gallons are used, you’ll need to convert gallons to litres first. There’s a calculator on the same page which enables you to do this.
Next….
Let’s say your reservoir/tank is 100 litres (26.417 US gallons); enter the purity of the baking soda (let’s say 99%) in the “Concentration of solute %” box and hit the calculate button. The calculator will then tell you that you need 2.02grams in 100 litres (26.417 US gallons) to achieve 20ppm of sodium bicarbonate in solution. I.e. See image following
Note: Alkalinity and pH level are closely related, so it is important to test pH after adjusting alkalinity.
It’s recommended that you always predilute solutes (mix thoroughly) in say 5 – 10L of RO water and pH adjust to 5.8 before adding to the nutrient tank/reservoir.
pH and Conductivity Tests using Sodium Bicarbonate
To give you an idea of how much the pH will rise in the nutrient tank when using sodium bicarbonate at the recommended rates, we ran 2 tests. In the first test we added 2.02grams/100L of distilled water and in the second test we added 2.02 grams/100L at 1.8EC (distilled water + nutrient).
pH and Conductivity Tests in Distilled Water
The initial pH of the water without sodium bicarbonate was 6.77 and the Conductivity was 0.002 mS/cm
2.02g/100L recommended usage rate raises the pH from 6.77 to 7.63 and Conductivity rose to 0.023 mS/cm.
pH and Conductivity Tests in Working Solution of 1.8EC using Sodium Bicarbonate
5 Litres of a 1.80 mS/cm solution of MB Sensi Grow A &B
Initial pH of 5.41 @ 1.80 mS/cm
0.0202 g/L of sodium bicarbonate Food Grade
pH of 6.13 mS/cm @ 1.80mS/cm
Distilled water went up 0.86 pH
1.8 mS/cm nutrient solution went up 0.72 pH
Note: Baking soda contains 27.3% sodium (Na) so you are adding 5.5ppm of Na (very little) to your working solution. This leaves 63% bicarbonate, which gives you roughly 14.5ppm of bicarbonate (alkalinity) in solution.
Cal Mag Product Use in RO Water
RO filtration removes calcium and magnesium from the water supply. For this reason you may find that this needs to be compensated for through the use of a cal mag product (e.g. Manic Botanix RO Perfect which also handles the buffering/alkalinity correction for you – hence no need for sodium bicarbonate).
For instance, Canna Coco Nutrient is formulated for hard water supplies (water supplies that contain high degrees of calcium and magnesium) so when using Canna Coco nutrients with RO water, for optimum growth, the addition of cal mag is required. You may wish to seek further information from your hydroponic supplier or nutrient manufacturer regarding whether they advise the use of ‘Cal Mag’ when using their products with RO water.
Some more reading I have found
The information was taken from here
Lab Analysis of RO Water
You will note in the lab test of Reverse Osmosis water that a total EC of 0.02 is present. There is 1ppm of calcium, <1ppm of magnesium, 10.96ppm of bicarbonate, 2.07ppm of sodium and 2.13ppm of chloride. In very simple terms this is a vast improvement over our earlier mains water lab analysis example where there was 41.9 ppm of calcium, 14.4ppm of magnesium, 161ppm of sodium and 202ppm of chloride (extreme levels of sodium chloride).
Additionally, if I were to test any mains water treated with Reverse Osmosis, no matter what elements were present in the mains supply, at what levels, the RO treated water would remain consistent due to removing these elements during filtration. What this means is consistently pure water every time.
However, there are a couple of things that you need to be aware of in order to get the best results with RO water.
RO Water and pH Stability
RO filtering of mains water not only removes undesirable compounds but can also remove desirable compounds in the form of bicarbonates (HC03-) and carbonates (CO32-) which create a natural pH buffering system via adding alkalinity to water. Ideally it is best to correct this after RO filtration using sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or another carbonate or bicarbonate product (e.g. potassium bicarbonate, calcium carbonate etc). We’ll talk more about this in a second.
What is Alkalinity?
Alkalinity is the buffering capacity of a water type. It measures the ability of water to neutralize acids and bases thereby maintaining a fairly stable pH. Water that is a good buffer contains compounds, such as bicarbonates, carbonates, and hydroxides, which combine with H+ ions from the water thereby raising the pH (more basic) of the water. Without this buffering capacity, pH can become unstable.
Correcting/Creating Alkalinity in RO Water With Baking Soda
Baking soda is a white crystalline powder (NaHCO3) better known to chemists as sodium bicarbonate, bicarbonate of soda, sodium hydrogen carbonate, or sodium acid carbonate. It is classified as an acid salt, manufactured using either the ‘Solvay Process’ (sodium chloride and calcium carbonate) or by reacting carbon dioxide with sodium hydroxide. It is known as an amphoteric chemical, which means that it can act as an acid or a base. Solutions of sodium bicarbonate are mildly alkaline because of the formation of hydroxide ions (OH-) and the weak carbonic acid (H2CO3).
Baking soda is readily available through supermarkets. The key thing to know when using baking soda at 20ppm to raise alkalinity is the products purity. However, as baking soda from supermarkets is food grade it is high purity with low contaminants. Typically the purity will be between 99.5 – 100%.
20ppm of Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) can be used to increase alkalinity in RO water. This adds to the total bicarbonates in the water, raising the alkalinity. Alkalinity (or carbonate alkalinity in this case) and pH level are closely related, so it is important to test and correct pH after adjusting alkalinity. There are many common natural compounds that increase alkalinity but carbonates make up most of the total alkalinity in the natural environment. This is due to the abundance of CO2 and carbonate rocks.
Note: Other products that can be used for raising alkalinity are potassium carbonate, potassium bicarbonate, and calcium carbonate (lime). However, these products are not as readily available as baking soda, or in the case of calcium carbonate are less water soluble.
Chem Made Easy – Calculating how much baking soda is required to buffer RO water
To establish how much baking soda is needed to achieve 20ppm in solution go to this takes you to a page where you will find our “DILUTION CONCENTRATION CALCULATOR” – use this to calculate how much baking soda you will need to add to your nutrient reservoir/tank to achieve 20ppm in solution.
What you will see is this.
Okay, no hardcore chemistry here – the calculator does all the equations for you. First off, let’s say that we know the baking soda is 99% purity. In the far left box (“ppm Required”) enter 20 (Ie. You require 20ppm). To the box next to that enter how many litres you are adding the baking soda to. If you’re living in a country such as the US where gallons are used, you’ll need to convert gallons to litres first. There’s a calculator on the same page which enables you to do this.
Next….
Let’s say your reservoir/tank is 100 litres (26.417 US gallons); enter the purity of the baking soda (let’s say 99%) in the “Concentration of solute %” box and hit the calculate button. The calculator will then tell you that you need 2.02grams in 100 litres (26.417 US gallons) to achieve 20ppm of sodium bicarbonate in solution. I.e. See image following
Note: Alkalinity and pH level are closely related, so it is important to test pH after adjusting alkalinity.
It’s recommended that you always predilute solutes (mix thoroughly) in say 5 – 10L of RO water and pH adjust to 5.8 before adding to the nutrient tank/reservoir.
pH and Conductivity Tests using Sodium Bicarbonate
To give you an idea of how much the pH will rise in the nutrient tank when using sodium bicarbonate at the recommended rates, we ran 2 tests. In the first test we added 2.02grams/100L of distilled water and in the second test we added 2.02 grams/100L at 1.8EC (distilled water + nutrient).
pH and Conductivity Tests in Distilled Water
The initial pH of the water without sodium bicarbonate was 6.77 and the Conductivity was 0.002 mS/cm
2.02g/100L recommended usage rate raises the pH from 6.77 to 7.63 and Conductivity rose to 0.023 mS/cm.
pH and Conductivity Tests in Working Solution of 1.8EC using Sodium Bicarbonate
5 Litres of a 1.80 mS/cm solution of MB Sensi Grow A &B
Initial pH of 5.41 @ 1.80 mS/cm
0.0202 g/L of sodium bicarbonate Food Grade
pH of 6.13 mS/cm @ 1.80mS/cm
Distilled water went up 0.86 pH
1.8 mS/cm nutrient solution went up 0.72 pH
Note: Baking soda contains 27.3% sodium (Na) so you are adding 5.5ppm of Na (very little) to your working solution. This leaves 63% bicarbonate, which gives you roughly 14.5ppm of bicarbonate (alkalinity) in solution.
Cal Mag Product Use in RO Water
RO filtration removes calcium and magnesium from the water supply. For this reason you may find that this needs to be compensated for through the use of a cal mag product (e.g. Manic Botanix RO Perfect which also handles the buffering/alkalinity correction for you – hence no need for sodium bicarbonate).
For instance, Canna Coco Nutrient is formulated for hard water supplies (water supplies that contain high degrees of calcium and magnesium) so when using Canna Coco nutrients with RO water, for optimum growth, the addition of cal mag is required. You may wish to seek further information from your hydroponic supplier or nutrient manufacturer regarding whether they advise the use of ‘Cal Mag’ when using their products with RO water.
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Day 27 or 32 PH5.8, EC 1.3
(I explained this gap of 5 days before
)
(I explained this gap of 5 days before
)Who don't want to read about my experiments can skip it and read from text in normal format
Both girls got new res (there is 1 day difference between res changes PH experiments) ph+ 10 to ph -6 working but not like I expected (there is still rise of 0.5-1 in 24h). Still searching and experimenting but it is already better than before....
Really tricky to rise ph to 10 and drop it to 6 (Pure RO water + (ph+) + 0.57gr backing soda + cal/mag + (aqua a+b)+rizo+(ph-) =
). I'll explain why this need to be done in this sequence. PH+ rise ph and backing soda rise it as well and add transform into buffer in combination with cal/mag and cal/mag drop it a little,aqua a+b drop ph and rizo rise it again and last step to adjust ph to needed value(in my case it is 5.8). My next experiment will be to try to make this without ph+ and with ph- of another brand (have filling that my ph- canna is not good for RO and I remember I hadn't much issues with ph in bloom last time when I used another ph-)
Girls doesn't mind my experiments (yet). I started with LST on the big one
And this weekend I will install 2-nd LED as they start to need more coverage which is not possible with 1 LED panel...
Still hope to see here one chemist who will give me 100% bullet proof solution for ph swing
P.S. SB I spoke with my local hydro shop guy and he told me he have exactly same issues with RO and GR Flora Series :cry:
P.S.S. Still will try Floraduo for RO
Photos of LST
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Lookn good komach your rabbit looks well hung lol
Kudos on the LST Ko!!
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