Mephisto Genetics Cosmic Queens in not quite living soil

[calliandra]

Subbed bro, they look jelly man! Beautiful.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Cheers man and welcome!
The rate they're going at, they'll probably be around for another good while haha

 

[Site]

Ooops got carried away there
Regarding your mix!



I wouldn't add the mycorrhizae to the soil mix, it's a waste of an otherwise excellent input.
Add mycorrhizae to the planting/seeding hole, powder the roots when transplanting.
You need those spores to be as close as possible to the roots.
Once the spores of mycorrhizal fungi germinate, they have a limited time to dock onto a host root, else they'll just die.
Whereby that is rare anyway, since usually it is enzymes coming from the plant roots that wake the spores up in the first place!

And here's where phosphorus comes into play. Mycorrhizal fungi are excellent P-miners, and a plant will be most interested in forming mycorrhizal associations if P is sparse. So if we load up our mixes with P, there will be no incentive for the plant to initiate any such associations, won't be putting out the germination enzymes, and those spores willjust sit there doing nothing.
The next question then is, how much P is too much?! or for that matter, how little P is too little?!

And that I cannot answer.
Yet? Maybe!
My mix doesn't have high P input, I've added the mycos to the seeding hole, and will continue to do so in future runs.
Then I'll see, whether I run into problems or not!

So you see, my mix being so light in comparison to yours, it will probably need a different maintenance regime too. Something you do to consolidate and maintain your mix with great success may have catastrophic effects on mine and vice versa
Cheers!

apologies I havent responded till now...been really busy sorting everything out in my life with uni and exams, been busy at work etc...but nice to see how someone else has done it and it shows how simple it can really be...my soil is all mixed up and its been in my garden for a few weeks now, gonna turn it over soon as its got a thick white layer of goodness on top! i have re-used some old soil actually for this...i had like around 100L of allmix from my previous grow still thought why not reammend that with everything...then added the coco and some extra perlite...im a bit dubious there wont be enough nitrogen in the soil but luckily I will be veggin in new allmix for a few weeks before transplanting some photos into my soil...

yea my mix is fairly high in the P department due to the high P guano used so hopefully this doesnt cause any issues...very interesting to hear about the mycorrhizal fungi and the P relationships they have etc....just another thing to go on my list of more reading! Im assuming though they need the P there to 'mine' it for the plant or break it down...or do they like to multiply to in theory go and hunt down more?

gonna have to read through the rest of the pages of this now didnt realise it had come on so far!

 

[calliandra]

apologies I havent responded till now...been really busy sorting everything out in my life with uni and exams, been busy at work etc...but nice to see how someone else has done it and it shows how simple it can really be...my soil is all mixed up and its been in my garden for a few weeks now, gonna turn it over soon as its got a thick white layer of goodness on top! i have re-used some old soil actually for this...i had like around 100L of allmix from my previous grow still thought why not reammend that with everything...then added the coco and some extra perlite...im a bit dubious there wont be enough nitrogen in the soil but luckily I will be veggin in new allmix for a few weeks before transplanting some photos into my soil...

yea my mix is fairly high in the P department due to the high P guano used so hopefully this doesnt cause any issues...very interesting to hear about the mycorrhizal fungi and the P relationships they have etc....just another thing to go on my list of more reading! Im assuming though they need the P there to 'mine' it for the plant or break it down...or do they like to multiply to in theory go and hunt down more?

gonna have to read through the rest of the pages of this now didnt realise it had come on so far!

Wow that's a multi-tasking level that sounds almost scary! Best of luck for all your ventures!

Maybe it helps to understand better how nutrients come in different forms.

• There's soluble forms, which are immediately plant available,
  
• exchangeable ionic forms bound to particles in the soil (and to oxalate crystals on fungal hyphae), that can quickly become plant-available,
  
• and then there are the great majority of nutrients bound in the bodies of microbes, in decomposing detritus, and the mineral component (sand, silt, clays), which are mostly ignored in chemical soil tests.

There is no lack in nutrients in just about any soil when we look at total amounts, ever!
But we have devastated our microbial populations to the point of breakdown - and the bacteria and fungi are the guys who go extract those bound nutrients from the sand silt and clays and organic matter with their enzymes and store them in their tiny bodies, keeping them in place. The protozoa and nematodes (and worms!) then have to go eat those bacteria and fungi, and by excreting the excess, make them available to the plant in soluble form, in the perfect mix of all - what, 3? 5? 14? 42? Plant science keeps expanding their count... all of them? - elements plants need for healthy growth.

So circling back to the mycorrhizae, having that P in a readily available form in great amounts (as is the case with that guano), the plant will be happy with that (as long as it lasts - because it will also leach out with watering!). So it won't even start making the enzymes to get germination and growth of the mycos going as long as it doesn't need to
Sure there needs to be P in insoluble forms so the fungi can go mine it, but I'm learning to worry less and less about that.

One thought that really helped me along with that:
Think of a really healthy plant, loving life on a sunny day. Got a picture in your head?
So what is it going to be made of?
All the nutrients, in the perfect amounts and combination a healthy plant needs!

Manures will always be at least partially processed (some more, some less, hence the difference in "hotness" between horse, chicken, bat...), releasing those goodies into soluble forms.

Sure, bacteria and fungi will grab soluble nutes too (they do it all the time! Not every bit of nematode poo gets caught up by the plant roots ). But if that becomes their main source of nutrition, it's a shortcut that literally cuts out essential parts of the process, leading to other problems.

For example, when bacteria and fungi go to mine nutes, they excrete enzymes which act like glues to aggregate the soil, creating that lovely crumbly texture that lets air circulate, holds water, and allows the roots to expand unhindered.
Assuming the bacteria to be feeding just on soluble stuff, they won't be making those glues, the aggregates will crumble and collapse, and those (aerobic) bacteria themselves won't be able to live there anymore, giving way to those who can: the anaerobes, who however don't go well with the plants we want to grow at all. So it's a straight path to hell lol

Cheers!

 

[Dudeski]

Wow that's a multi-tasking level that sounds almost scary! Best of luck for all your ventures!

Maybe it helps to understand better how nutrients come in different forms.

• There's soluble forms, which are immediately plant available,
  
• exchangeable ionic forms bound to particles in the soil (and to oxalate crystals on fungal hyphae), that can quickly become plant-available,
  
• and then there are the great majority of nutrients bound in the bodies of microbes, in decomposing detritus, and the mineral component (sand, silt, clays), which are mostly ignored in chemical soil tests.

There is no lack in nutrients in just about any soil when we look at total amounts, ever!
But we have devastated our microbial populations to the point of breakdown - and the bacteria and fungi are the guys who go extract those bound nutrients from the sand silt and clays and organic matter with their enzymes and store them in their tiny bodies, keeping them in place. The protozoa and nematodes (and worms!) then have to go eat those bacteria and fungi, and by excreting the excess, make them available to the plant in soluble form, in the perfect mix of all - what, 3? 5? 14? 42? Plant science keeps expanding their count... all of them? - elements plants need for healthy growth.

So circling back to the mycorrhizae, having that P in a readily available form in great amounts (as is the case with that guano), the plant will be happy with that (as long as it lasts - because it will also leach out with watering!). So it won't even start making the enzymes to get germination and growth of the mycos going as long as it doesn't need to
Sure there needs to be P in insoluble forms so the fungi can go mine it, but I'm learning to worry less and less about that.

One thought that really helped me along with that:
Think of a really healthy plant, loving life on a sunny day. Got a picture in your head?
So what is it going to be made of?
All the nutrients, in the perfect amounts and combination a healthy plant needs!

Manures will always be at least partially processed (some more, some less, hence the difference in "hotness" between horse, chicken, bat...), releasing those goodies into soluble forms.

Sure, bacteria and fungi will grab soluble nutes too (they do it all the time! Not every bit of nematode poo gets caught up by the plant roots ). But if that becomes their main source of nutrition, it's a shortcut that literally cuts out essential parts of the process, leading to other problems.

For example, when bacteria and fungi go to mine nutes, they excrete enzymes which act like glues to aggregate the soil, creating that lovely crumbly texture that lets air circulate, holds water, and allows the roots to expand unhindered.
Assuming the bacteria to be feeding just on soluble stuff, they won't be making those glues, the aggregates will crumble and collapse, and those (aerobic) bacteria themselves won't be able to live there anymore, giving way to those who can: the anaerobes, who however don't go well with the plants we want to grow at all. So it's a straight path to hell lol

Cheers!

That's well written and great information! I have to read it again once my coffee kicks in

Flintstones vitamins, I had those too.
They are really stacking now, frosty like frosted flakes

 

[Site]

Wow that's a multi-tasking level that sounds almost scary! Best of luck for all your ventures!

Maybe it helps to understand better how nutrients come in different forms.

• There's soluble forms, which are immediately plant available,
  
• exchangeable ionic forms bound to particles in the soil (and to oxalate crystals on fungal hyphae), that can quickly become plant-available,
  
• and then there are the great majority of nutrients bound in the bodies of microbes, in decomposing detritus, and the mineral component (sand, silt, clays), which are mostly ignored in chemical soil tests.

There is no lack in nutrients in just about any soil when we look at total amounts, ever!
But we have devastated our microbial populations to the point of breakdown - and the bacteria and fungi are the guys who go extract those bound nutrients from the sand silt and clays and organic matter with their enzymes and store them in their tiny bodies, keeping them in place. The protozoa and nematodes (and worms!) then have to go eat those bacteria and fungi, and by excreting the excess, make them available to the plant in soluble form, in the perfect mix of all - what, 3? 5? 14? 42? Plant science keeps expanding their count... all of them? - elements plants need for healthy growth.

So circling back to the mycorrhizae, having that P in a readily available form in great amounts (as is the case with that guano), the plant will be happy with that (as long as it lasts - because it will also leach out with watering!). So it won't even start making the enzymes to get germination and growth of the mycos going as long as it doesn't need to
Sure there needs to be P in insoluble forms so the fungi can go mine it, but I'm learning to worry less and less about that.

One thought that really helped me along with that:
Think of a really healthy plant, loving life on a sunny day. Got a picture in your head?
So what is it going to be made of?
All the nutrients, in the perfect amounts and combination a healthy plant needs!

Manures will always be at least partially processed (some more, some less, hence the difference in "hotness" between horse, chicken, bat...), releasing those goodies into soluble forms.

Sure, bacteria and fungi will grab soluble nutes too (they do it all the time! Not every bit of nematode poo gets caught up by the plant roots ). But if that becomes their main source of nutrition, it's a shortcut that literally cuts out essential parts of the process, leading to other problems.

For example, when bacteria and fungi go to mine nutes, they excrete enzymes which act like glues to aggregate the soil, creating that lovely crumbly texture that lets air circulate, holds water, and allows the roots to expand unhindered.
Assuming the bacteria to be feeding just on soluble stuff, they won't be making those glues, the aggregates will crumble and collapse, and those (aerobic) bacteria themselves won't be able to live there anymore, giving way to those who can: the anaerobes, who however don't go well with the plants we want to grow at all. So it's a straight path to hell lol

Cheers!

thanks for that...given me some more to read up on....definitely read a lot of similar info to what youve said but you summed it up really nice! this is one reason i really love this forum out of any forum ive been on...no matter how dumb and stupid my questions or how little i know someone is always willing to jump on and help out and spread anything they have learnt on the way etc...really appreciate your responses and its getting me more in the mood to have my soil in pots to use!

 

[Dubious143]

Wow that's a multi-tasking level that sounds almost scary! Best of luck for all your ventures!

Maybe it helps to understand better how nutrients come in different forms.

• There's soluble forms, which are immediately plant available,
  
• exchangeable ionic forms bound to particles in the soil (and to oxalate crystals on fungal hyphae), that can quickly become plant-available,
  
• and then there are the great majority of nutrients bound in the bodies of microbes, in decomposing detritus, and the mineral component (sand, silt, clays), which are mostly ignored in chemical soil tests.

There is no lack in nutrients in just about any soil when we look at total amounts, ever!
But we have devastated our microbial populations to the point of breakdown - and the bacteria and fungi are the guys who go extract those bound nutrients from the sand silt and clays and organic matter with their enzymes and store them in their tiny bodies, keeping them in place. The protozoa and nematodes (and worms!) then have to go eat those bacteria and fungi, and by excreting the excess, make them available to the plant in soluble form, in the perfect mix of all - what, 3? 5? 14? 42? Plant science keeps expanding their count... all of them? - elements plants need for healthy growth.

So circling back to the mycorrhizae, having that P in a readily available form in great amounts (as is the case with that guano), the plant will be happy with that (as long as it lasts - because it will also leach out with watering!). So it won't even start making the enzymes to get germination and growth of the mycos going as long as it doesn't need to
Sure there needs to be P in insoluble forms so the fungi can go mine it, but I'm learning to worry less and less about that.

One thought that really helped me along with that:
Think of a really healthy plant, loving life on a sunny day. Got a picture in your head?
So what is it going to be made of?
All the nutrients, in the perfect amounts and combination a healthy plant needs!

Manures will always be at least partially processed (some more, some less, hence the difference in "hotness" between horse, chicken, bat...), releasing those goodies into soluble forms.

Sure, bacteria and fungi will grab soluble nutes too (they do it all the time! Not every bit of nematode poo gets caught up by the plant roots ). But if that becomes their main source of nutrition, it's a shortcut that literally cuts out essential parts of the process, leading to other problems.

For example, when bacteria and fungi go to mine nutes, they excrete enzymes which act like glues to aggregate the soil, creating that lovely crumbly texture that lets air circulate, holds water, and allows the roots to expand unhindered.
Assuming the bacteria to be feeding just on soluble stuff, they won't be making those glues, the aggregates will crumble and collapse, and those (aerobic) bacteria themselves won't be able to live there anymore, giving way to those who can: the anaerobes, who however don't go well with the plants we want to grow at all. So it's a straight path to hell lol

Cheers!

The tree of knowledge

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Dudeski]

Wow that's a multi-tasking level that sounds almost scary! Best of luck for all your ventures!

Maybe it helps to understand better how nutrients come in different forms.

• There's soluble forms, which are immediately plant available,
  
• exchangeable ionic forms bound to particles in the soil (and to oxalate crystals on fungal hyphae), that can quickly become plant-available,
  
• and then there are the great majority of nutrients bound in the bodies of microbes, in decomposing detritus, and the mineral component (sand, silt, clays), which are mostly ignored in chemical soil tests.

There is no lack in nutrients in just about any soil when we look at total amounts, ever!
But we have devastated our microbial populations to the point of breakdown - and the bacteria and fungi are the guys who go extract those bound nutrients from the sand silt and clays and organic matter with their enzymes and store them in their tiny bodies, keeping them in place. The protozoa and nematodes (and worms!) then have to go eat those bacteria and fungi, and by excreting the excess, make them available to the plant in soluble form, in the perfect mix of all - what, 3? 5? 14? 42? Plant science keeps expanding their count... all of them? - elements plants need for healthy growth.

So circling back to the mycorrhizae, having that P in a readily available form in great amounts (as is the case with that guano), the plant will be happy with that (as long as it lasts - because it will also leach out with watering!). So it won't even start making the enzymes to get germination and growth of the mycos going as long as it doesn't need to
Sure there needs to be P in insoluble forms so the fungi can go mine it, but I'm learning to worry less and less about that.

One thought that really helped me along with that:
Think of a really healthy plant, loving life on a sunny day. Got a picture in your head?
So what is it going to be made of?
All the nutrients, in the perfect amounts and combination a healthy plant needs!

Manures will always be at least partially processed (some more, some less, hence the difference in "hotness" between horse, chicken, bat...), releasing those goodies into soluble forms.

Sure, bacteria and fungi will grab soluble nutes too (they do it all the time! Not every bit of nematode poo gets caught up by the plant roots ). But if that becomes their main source of nutrition, it's a shortcut that literally cuts out essential parts of the process, leading to other problems.

For example, when bacteria and fungi go to mine nutes, they excrete enzymes which act like glues to aggregate the soil, creating that lovely crumbly texture that lets air circulate, holds water, and allows the roots to expand unhindered.
Assuming the bacteria to be feeding just on soluble stuff, they won't be making those glues, the aggregates will crumble and collapse, and those (aerobic) bacteria themselves won't be able to live there anymore, giving way to those who can: the anaerobes, who however don't go well with the plants we want to grow at all. So it's a straight path to hell lol

Cheers!

I, as a learning soil noob, have to share this with @johnp540 .

My coffee has kicked in! Thank you

 

[calliandra]

Hey guys! I'm really happy that gave you something!
It gave me something too - made some really nice new connections there for myself!

Most of the time, I just drive myself crazy with my questions and doubts.
But then there are these moments where everything I've been looking at falls into place and the great chaos
- for a tiny window in time -
orders itself into something splendidly congruent, where new connections click and the whole reveals its amazing beauty from yet another perspective.
And usually, that happens when someone comes along and asks a question
So thank you for asking!
And much joy on your journey into the soil!

The tree of knowledge

Haha I see what you did there! A beautiful tree it is!!

Flintstones vitamins, I had those too.
They are really stacking now, frosty like frosted flakes

Yeah I love it most when they go spirally! Good times ahead!

Cheers guys!

 

[sewerdweller]

Wow....i feel smarter just reading these post. Everybody has 1 thing or another they love the most about this site and mine is just sharing the same platfom with some so the greatest minds and personalities ive known.

 

[Dudeski]

Ihave to ask you a question, what is your opinion on trace minerals, basalt or azomite to work into soil? I'm still trying to learn and this is my last purchase until I'm ableto use all the other stuff I already have.