Calmag and ppm in coco

[Saro01]

Thanks! That could explain a few things. The liquid calmag I was using came out at 160. The dry Blue Planet I just started using came to 240. I switched to BP cause it says it has manganese which the plants were exhibiting a deficiency of.

I believe iron as well, that's a good one. I use their cal mag as well, liquid.

 

[Saro01]

Thanks! That could explain a few things. The liquid calmag I was using came out at 160. The dry Blue Planet I just started using came to 240. I switched to BP cause it says it has manganese which the plants were exhibiting a deficiency of.

Keep in mind, i am only answering the question about ppm. I have no idea on what your issues could have been, could be or will be. Sorry, read the other comments and I felt like maybe I missed something or whatever. I just don't want to steer you wrong if I misread what you were asking.

 

[Proph]

Adding extra cal mag to coco has to do with the CEC of coco. The cal mag helps regulate it. I found a lot of good information about coco coir on https://www.cocoforcannabis.com/. This site does a great job explaining CEC and how high frequency fertigation works.

This (CEC) only matters if you're buying bricked, unbuffered coco. If so, you pre treat it with a calcium source once before you plant into it. Bagged, store bought coco is buffered and usually precharged/treated with something. Newer growers run into issues because most don't understand that too much calcium will lock out magnesium, and vise versa. So when they see a "deficiency" created by a lock out(too much of a certain nutrient), they just add more cal/mag.. Thinking that a deficiency automatically means that the plant wants more of something. The plants themselves actually need very low levels of cal and or mag. I'm not sure where this thing about adding cal/mag through out a grow came from, lol.

 

[Saro01]

This (CEC) only matters if you're buying bricked, unbuffered coco. If so, you pre treat it with a calcium source once before you plant into it. Bagged, store bought coco is buffered and usually precharged/treated with something. Newer growers run into issues because most don't understand that too much calcium will lock out magnesium, and vise versa. So when they see a "deficiency" created by a lock out(too much of a certain nutrient), they just add more cal/mag.. Thinking that a deficiency automatically means that the plant wants more of something. The plants themselves actually need very low levels of cal and or mag. I'm not sure where this thing about adding cal/mag through out a grow came from, lol.

What about when using distilled or Ro water? I have just switched to this during this current grow, about 75 days on photos and my bum wine autos are at 30-35 days in throughout. So if I'm heading down a path to fun and excitement, please help a brother out. I have just noticed a decent yellowing in the margins and a few brown spots on the oldest sets of fans, it appears to be running through them all as we speak. Today I noticed that actually. I use distilled as I unfortunately have a water softener system on my well. I add cal mag at every water recently in coco loco. I did not start out that way, but I have a feeling now that maybe I started that chase already. Damn it. Ha.

 

[Proph]

What about when using distilled or Ro water? I have just switched to this during this current grow, about 75 days on photos and my bum wine autos are at 30-35 days in throughout. So if I'm heading down a path to fun and excitement, please help a brother out. I have just noticed a decent yellowing in the margins and a few brown spots on the oldest sets of fans, it appears to be running through them all as we speak. Today I noticed that actually. I use distilled as I unfortunately have a water softener system on my well. I add cal mag at every water recently in coco loco. I did not start out that way, but I have a feeling now that maybe I started that chase already. Damn it. Ha.

I use RO water as well.. My advice to all newer growers is to familiarize yourself with nutrients, and nutrient sources as early as possible. You will save yourself money and headaches. Coco loco is heavily amended coco. It has bat guano, kelp, and oyster shells... All three provide calcium. Oyster shells are almost 35% calcium by themselves. So I can't see a reason to add extra cal/mag. If you've been adding it to every watering, then it's possible that either cal or mag could be locked out.

Calcium is in soo many things. That's why my first question is what nutrient line they were using.. Because many nutrient lines have calcium in them by default because it's found in many differ ingredients.

 

[GeorgeCloney]

Here we go again ...the calmag delema.
Proph hit the nail on the head, saying the first thing growers do is add more calmag.

Lets step back in the senario for a second and ask a MUCH more important question.
And this is directly related to the ongoing threads about calmag def'c.

What is your run off ph?
What is your run off EC?

Then we can talk about the nutes vs calmag first stuff or vice versa.

Overdoing the calmag is like feeding you a bowl of stew.
Once you've eaten all the veggies you're too full to eat the meat.
Develop an iron def'c. Loose your teeth and die
You get my point?

 

[Sqwirlman]

Thank you both for your input. I am just going off what I have read in regards to CEC. What I have read is that even in buffered coco as you water and the plant grows the coco continues to break down and open new sites for cal mag to bond to if you do not have enough cal mag added to compensate that’s when you start to see deficiencies due the available cal mag in the base nutrients is being bonded to the new sites and that doesn’t leave an cal mag left to be available to the plant. I also grow under cobs which from my understanding also depletes cal mag.

 

[Saro01]

Thank you both for your input. I am just going off what I have read in regards to CEC. What I have read is that even in buffered coco as you water and the plant grows the coco continues to break down and open new sites for cal mag to bond to if you do not have enough cal mag added to compensate that’s when you start to see deficiencies due the available cal mag in the base nutrients is being bonded to the new sites and that doesn’t leave an cal mag left to be available to the plant. I also grow under cobs which from my understanding also depletes cal mag.

I too am in a similar boat in regards to adding cal mag. I had a def in cal mag for sure. This I am positive on.

I use RO water as well.. My advice to all newer growers is to familiarize yourself with nutrients, and nutrient sources as early as possible. You will save yourself money and headaches. Coco loco is heavily amended coco. It has bat guano, kelp, and oyster shells... All three provide calcium. Oyster shells are almost 35% calcium by themselves. So I can't see a reason to add extra cal/mag. If you've been adding it to every watering, then it's possible that either cal or mag could be locked out.

Calcium is in soo many things. That's why my first question is what nutrient line they were using.. Because many nutrient lines have calcium in them by default because it's found in many differ ingredients.

I think where I get confused here, is in its buffer ability. I was under the impression that was a big part of using cal with ro/distilled water. I understand there's oyster shell and dolomite in the loco, but in trace amounts I was to believe. I miss my damn well water. Hahaha. I think I'm going under the house and plumb in a hose bib inline, pre water softener and go back to "just add water" hahaha. Thank you all for your help. Man, even if you've been doing this for a while, things like this make you feel so green again. I appreciate your help tremendously. Great community here.

 

[Sqwirlman]

I agree

I too am in a similar boat in regards to adding cal mag. I had a def in cal mag for sure. This I am positive on.

I think where I get confused here, is in its buffer ability. I was under the impression that was a big part of using cal with ro/distilled water. I understand there's oyster shell and dolomite in the loco, but in trace amounts I was to believe. I miss my damn well water. Hahaha. I think I'm going under the house and plumb in a hose bib inline, pre water softener and go back to "just add water" hahaha. Thank you all for your help. Man, even if you've been doing this for a while, things like this make you feel so green again. I appreciate your help tremendously. Great community here.

I agree this is a great community and have learned so much from the members here.

 

[Proph]

Thank you both for your input. I am just going off what I have read in regards to CEC. What I have read is that even in buffered coco as you water and the plant grows the coco continues to break down and open new sites for cal mag to bond to if you do not have enough cal mag added to compensate that’s when you start to see deficiencies due the available cal mag in the base nutrients is being bonded to the new sites and that doesn’t leave an cal mag left to be available to the plant. I also grow under cobs which from my understanding also depletes cal mag.

This is from Bonticare's web site...

"One reason the coco coir is a popular growing medium is that it has a good cation exchange capacity (CEC) rating. Cations are positively charged ions such as calcium, magnesium, potassium, and sodium (among others), and the cation exchange capacity of a growing medium describes how well it can hold and exchange them. One way to think of a CEC is a rating of how well a medium stores nutrients.

Since coco is pretty good at holding nutrients, it should be of no surprise that it naturally has some attached to its cation sites. Specifically it starts with high levels of potassium and sodium.

Quality coco coir has been treated to replace some of these cation sites with a calcium (such as calcium nitrate). Calcium has a stronger bond to the cation sites than potassium or sodium because it has a double positive charge as opposed to the single positive charge of potassium or sodium.

This is done because untreated coco coir, being high in potassium to start with, will exchange nutrients in the nutrient solution and release potassium and sodium when used. Not only can this create an issue with denying the plant the intended solution, but it will release an overabundance of potassium. This can not only lead to a magnesium deficiency as described above, but the issues associated with potassium overdosing. By rinsing the coco coir with a solution of calcium before use, much of this issue is corrected. Coco coir that has already been treated is referred to as “buffered coco coir”.

By understanding the interaction between coco coir and plant nutrients, it becomes apparent that buffering is an important step in getting reliable and consistent results from coco coir use."