Breeding better auto-flowers in groups

I agree with evol but sometimes one just has to take a leap of faith with things like this. Undercovers would be a little trickier to sort out but as far as liars, and frauds go, they would be noted and removed from the programme early on as issues become apparent. Collateral damage I suppose. And slowly over time a trusted and solid group would be formed where everone is working towards the same goal.

The problem is where to start but as I say, i feel that lays with someone making that leap into the void.

Great idea, and I really hope everyone can come together to find a way to make this work.

AFN Collective :smokeit:
 
This is why I don't think this would work throught a website. One person needs to be in charge and make selections from many TRUSTED, KNOWLEDGEABLE, AND HONEST people running grow ops. It's just too hard online because you don't really know the people and some people may claim to know more then they do or even outright lie about the plant growth.
I'm not saying its impossible to do over the web but it is much better in person.

I know what you mean but we do the breeding project with friends and also with people we meet at the forums. It's the alternative to spend a lot of money in some seeds of banks that don't work so much in doing good strains or sell them too expensive... Along the time the seeds of all plant varieties have been shared around the world by the travellers etc. That is the way that we are trying to keep. The magic of sharing without hope anything, although a simply picture can make me have a happy day! If the people enjoy them I do too. In these complicated moments things are changing a litlle bit.
Good night mates!
 
Please don't think that I was putting this idea down. I agree it could work but I was just saying that it will have it's problems. In fact I would be willing to help with this if it ever gets going if I don't have too much going on at that time.
 
Na, totally man. This is the way we'll figure out how to get this thing started, just by bouncing ideas off each other.

Good to see so many people with an interest in this.
 
seems like a good starting point would be to pick the trait to select for. Then everyone begins from their existing stock to find the best with the selected trait.

Assuming autos here...fast sex, frosty males, thickest main stem, purple trichomes?

What do you think?
 
I think that making a breeding group is easier than we believe... It's true that it will be better if we can meet in person with the people who form the group but anyway it can operate in the distance whenever we share good breeding information, pictures, etc.
For doing it by the easiest way I think that it's better that each one that have good varieties or auto crosses breed them for making more seeds, but selecting the best males and females. However it isn't a good idea to only use in the pollination a single female and male....
Then as we are growing the plants we can share seeds and pollen among us :toke:

On the other hand I had a problem in a important forum only for saying that if anybody wanted some seeds of a cross I made, he/she only will haver to tell me... IN this forum we can't put conversations of sharing seeds or clones in public... I think it's related with seed business...

evol: it doesn't mind, I understand you, in fact. many times I shared seeds with people that then left without saying anything....but it isn't a problem for me because when I see my girls around the world I'll lose all the bad mood! :eek:

Have a nice day!
 
A Recurrent Selection breeding group would be easy to setup.
It is nothing more than a one-time seed-swap.

10 members decide they want to do Recurrent Selection breeding.
One trusted member with a safe address is picked.
Each member has #200 seeds of a strain that the other member do not have!
Each member takes the #200 seeds and put them in to bags of #20 seeds, plus $6.00 to cover postage and padded envelopes and mails them to the trusted member. The trusted member would receive all the seeds from all the members and repackage and mail them back to each of the members.



Recurrent Selection: A method of breeding designed
to concentrate favorable genes scattered among a number
of individuals by selecting, each generation, among the
progeny produced by matings of the selected individuals
(or their selfed progeny) of the previous generation.


Demarcation of Auto-Flowering Plants to a New Environment "Climate Zone"
Recurrent Selection

Recurrent Selection is a powerful tool used to increase any trait selected for, above the parent lines used. I think it was fist purposed in 1844.And it has been refined over the years tell the late 1940 went it fall out of use. WHY; When most crops hade been improved with Recurrent Selection. Plant breeders used others plant-breeding tools to improved after they hade used Recurrent Selection. Also do to the loss of genetically diverse groups to use as recurrent stock. It is still used to day by modern plant breeders.

One of its uses is to demarcate of plant specie to a new environment "climate zones". Alloying for cop production in places not possible before. This method can greatly increase any characteristics selected for. Above all parent strains used (as in) higher yielding higher thc levels then all parent lines. There are so many vegetable and grain cops, that where improved with this method, a list of them is to long to post.

Experiment in Recurrent Selection plant breeding.
All strains must be 100% auto-flowering. Selecting strains that have high thc, high yield, pest resistant, mold and or fungus resistant, (what ever you want).
You need 10 foundation strains that are diverse as possible from each other.
You need to germinate enough seeds to have 10 NICE plants from each strain.
Always keep enough seed put back incases the experiment fails. So you can re-create if need be.

First Cycle (P1)
Planting 10 plants from each of the10 strain into a block "100 plant breeding block"
You want to give them all an equal chance of survival.
Open pollinate; All possible intercross are made and including brother sister cross's. If all plants lived and crossed there would be 90 hybrids and 10 brother-sisters cross's possible.
You keep the seeds from the best performing (40 plants max). The actual number of plants that survive will be much less. Selecting for high thc, high yield, pest resistant, mold and or fungus resistant, (what ever you want).
Keep the same number of seed from each plant and enough seed from each plant to sow a 100-plant block.

Second Cycle (F1)
Plant a 100-plant block from the selected seed from the First cycle
Grow them; remove (kill) any off type plants and any mutation before breeding occurs.
Open pollinate; All possible intercross are made and including brother/sister and backcross cross's are possible.
You keep seeds from the best performing (20 plants max). Selecting for high THC, high yield, pest resistant, mold and or fungus resistant, (what ever you want).
Keep the same number of seed from each plant and enough seed from each plant to sow a 100-plant block.

Third Cycle (F2)
Plant a 100-plant block from the selected seed from the Second cycle
Grow them; remove (kill) any off type plants and any mutation before breeding occurs.
Open pollinate; All possible intercross are made and including brother/sister and backcross cross's and double-hybrids are possible.
You keep the seeds from the best performing (10 plants max). Selecting for high thc, high yield, pest resistant, mold and or fungus resistant.

Forth Cycle (F3)
Plant a 100-plant block from the selected seed from the Third cycle
Grow them; remove (kill) any off type plants and any mutation before breeding occurs.
Open pollinate; All possible intercross are made and including brother/sister and backcross cross's and double-hybrids are possible.
You keep the seeds from the best performing (5 plants). Selecting for high thc, high yield, pest resistant, mold and or fungus resistant.

Fifth Cycle (F4)
Plant a 100-plant block from the selected seed from the Forth cycle
Grow them; remove (kill) any off type plants and any mutation before breeding occurs.
Open pollinate; All possible intercross are made and including brother/sister and backcross cross's and double-hybrids are possible.
You keep the seeds from the best performing (5 plants). Selecting for high thc, high yield, pest resistant, mold and or fungus resistant.

Sixths Cycle (F5) "Line breeding"
Each plant is a Family Line seed from the Fifth cycle
Each Family Line gets its on block. You will need to have 5 blocks far away from each other. You need to germinate enough seeds to have 100 plants from each plant.
All possible intercrosses are made. Remove (kill) any and all off type plants and any mutation before breeding occurs.
You keep the seeds from the best performing (5 plants). Selecting for high thc, high yield, pest resistant, mold and or fungus resistant.

NOTE; {Short cut} To keep from growing out 500 plants and needing to find a place for 5 blocks far away from each other. You can do a progeny test on each of the 5 lines. By growing out 20 plant from each line And picking the Family Line that produce the most on type offspring. Then do the Sixths Cycle (F5) from only that one Family Line progeny tested.

Seventh Cycle F6 "Bulk breeding"
Grow at lest 100 plants.
Only remove off type plants and any mutation before breeding occurs.
Make 10,000's Seeds

They are ready for release to farmers.
And each Cycle would be release as an improved line.
"Its going to depends" on the "size" that the Autos grow to. If you are breeding average sized plants then a 100sq.ft will be fine. Breeding Blocks have a higher plant density to encourage good cross-pollination and to encourage competition between each other for water & food. .

When you first start a lot of plants are going to die off and you will kill some to. There is going to be room.
Now later (F3) more plants will survive, you may need a bigger block 200sq.ft. But this depends on the size that the Autos grow to.
There are now many autos now coming into the market. Getting 10 strains to use should not be too hard. Most are very good, but none of them are super outdoors strains.

Recurrent Selection produce a superior outdoors strain adapted to a geography area!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Recurrent Selection is basted on the corn breeding (Ear to Row or Ear to Hill) procedures of the native peoples of North & South America. What they did to the Wild Corn plant is amazing: Yellow corn, Blue corn, Red corn, Green corn, Mixed Colors corn. White Sweet corn, and Popcorn!

Throes who can grow two cycles in a year, it want take you long to do this.

1. A description of Selection.
You are selecting plants that display the best trait in each cycle.

The example I am using is;
Highest THC
Highest yield,
Best taste and smell
Best pest resistant,
Beast mold and fungus resistant


When you first start, most all of these traits will be on different plants.
Now later in selection cycle some of these traits will combine into one plant.

When this happens
Example; "highest yield" and the "best pest resistant" are displayed same plant. They have "combined". When you select seeds from this plant, you select twice the amount of from it. ( the same as if where two plants)
As the breeding continues more traits will combine into one plant.


I tried to explain it as best i could.

Any characteristic that can be measured can be increased or decreased with Selection.
Up tell you reach the biological threshold of the characteristic under Selection.

biological threshold; when a characteristic affects the ability to reproduce viable offspring.
 
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Brilliant Post.. needs to be somewhere in the first post though so more folks see it instead of on the last page.

I have a question about this;

Example; "highest yield" and the "best pest resistant" are displayed same plant. They have "combined". When you select seeds from this plant, you select twice the amount of from it. ( the same as if where two plants)
As the breeding continues more traits will combine into one plant.

So if you breed Auto x Auto are you selecting "twice the amount" of ruderalis gene than if you were to go from Photo x Auto F1 to F6.. is the ruderalis gene stronger in Auto x Auto to F6? As the gene becomes more dominant in Photo x Auto, does it eventually come out to be the same as Auto x Auto or will the Photo x Auto plant always be more potent?
 
So if you breed Auto x Auto are you selecting "twice the amount" of ruderalis gene than if you were to go from Photo x Auto F1 to F6.. is the ruderalis gene stronger in Auto x Auto to F6?

Not stronger, you are just removing the Photo flowering genes from the family line.

As the gene becomes more dominant in Photo x Auto, does it eventually come out to be the same as Auto x Auto or will the Photo x Auto plant always be more potent?

Yes, come out to be the same.
"more potent" No it depends on the cross and luck.
 
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An Alternative to the Experiment in Recurrent Selection I first purposed is;
Starting with all F1’s (photo x auto) lines

The only problem is; the size of the next Breeding Cycle with a 25% auto gene expression. The population needs to be large 400 plants, in order to get 100 auto-flowering plants.


 
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