Nutrients BIOTABS HELP, CUSTOMER FEEDBACK & GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD

[Ryker604_BT]

@Ryker604_BT @stoney T -- guys, I'm not trying to undercut you here, the dolomite in coco has caused problems in the past from what I've seen in Sick Bay,... If you run it in straight coco before, and were able to keep the pH is the coco-zone, let me know how you did it!

No offense Waira dude, any input is greatly appreciated, especially when it comes from someone with much more experience . And I gotta say that I ain't no expert with coco. However, as stoney mentioned, I did some successful plants in coco with amended dolomite lime using BioTabs. On the other hand, I had some plants that were finicky and showed CalMg problems even with the lime, so your reasoning seems sound .

 

[Waira]

... Legal-- coco has a powerful affinity for Ca, Mg to a lesser extent,.. it will adhere to the particle so strongly that the roots can't access it, hence the need for elevated Ca-Mg,.. once the coco is sated, the CEC "buffering" (not pH) of these cations will have the proper give-and-take,... rinsing/treating starts at the manufacturers, buffering it's CEC with Ca,.. straight water can screw this up... coco works better at lower pH to keep nute more readily available,... dolomite have carbonate in it, and it's the carbonate anion that buffers pH... because of it's different chemistry, dolomite releases it more slowly, but the more acidic it is in there, the faster this happens, which in turn also releases the carbonate anions...then the pH is forced up!
...true, Biotabs doesn't require you to pH adjust your water (unless it's brutally hard/high ppm, meaning loaded with CaCO3 which is much more chemically active that the molecular complex that dolomite has),... Ca-Mg products these days are largely blend of both nitrate and carbonate derived salts, favoring %-wise the nitrate.... this helps keep pH lower! Using Biotabs does not negate the need to keep the coco pH where it works best, regardless,... IMO, if Biotabs doesn't recommend addition of such pH altering amendments into coco, I'd pay heed personally,.. maybe @Biotabs F69 and @Hippy_BiotabsF70 will have more insight on this,... I don't know the details of Stoney and Rykers deals, so I err on the side of caution! .... In any case, I recommend getting a pH probe made for in-pot measuring to monitor things; the Accurate 8 is a decent unit and not expensive (compared to a pro-model unit, which works more like an actual pH meter made for liquids).... this is it-->

.... I think once the Tabs are active, the need for extra Ca-Mg might be negated, or greatly reduced,... the problem is with dolomite, if you have high pH problem, your f*cked because there's no removing it! ... with hand-adjusted amending, you can control what goes in, have less potential impact on pH, and not risk overloading it with free ions that can cause other issues with certain nute's uptake,.. too much Ca/Mg will interfere with this, even if not at true toxicity levels,....

>> Stoney-- the bacteria do help, but they are no panacea,.... like I mentioned above, what worked for you may not for others for a variety of reasons, water source being a huge factor alone,.. and if there's high pH issues, the dolomite is there to stay and keep the problem going,...
... Ryker, Stoney, did you take pH readings in-pot?

 

[Trichome farmer]

... Legal-- coco has a powerful affinity for Ca, Mg to a lesser extent,.. it will adhere to the particle so strongly that the roots can't access it, hence the need for elevated Ca-Mg,.. once the coco is sated, the CEC "buffering" (not pH) of these cations will have the proper give-and-take,... rinsing/treating starts at the manufacturers, buffering it's CEC with Ca,.. straight water can screw this up... coco works better at lower pH to keep nute more readily available,... dolomite have carbonate in it, and it's the carbonate anion that buffers pH... because of it's different chemistry, dolomite releases it more slowly, but the more acidic it is in there, the faster this happens, which in turn also releases the carbonate anions...then the pH is forced up!
...true, Biotabs doesn't require you to pH adjust your water (unless it's brutally hard/high ppm, meaning loaded with CaCO3 which is much more chemically active that the molecular complex that dolomite has),... Ca-Mg products these days are largely blend of both nitrate and carbonate derived salts, favoring %-wise the nitrate.... this helps keep pH lower! Using Biotabs does not negate the need to keep the coco pH where it works best, regardless,... IMO, if Biotabs doesn't recommend addition of such pH altering amendments into coco, I'd pay heed personally,.. maybe @Biotabs F69 and @Hippy_BiotabsF70 will have more insight on this,... I don't know the details of Stoney and Rykers deals, so I err on the side of caution! .... In any case, I recommend getting a pH probe made for in-pot measuring to monitor things; the Accurate 8 is a decent unit and not expensive (compared to a pro-model unit, which works more like an actual pH meter made for liquids).... this is it-->

.... I think once the Tabs are active, the need for extra Ca-Mg might be negated, or greatly reduced,... the problem is with dolomite, if you have high pH problem, your f*cked because there's no removing it! ... with hand-adjusted amending, you can control what goes in, have less potential impact on pH, and not risk overloading it with free ions that can cause other issues with certain nute's uptake,.. too much Ca/Mg will interfere with this, even if not at true toxicity levels,....

>> Stoney-- the bacteria do help, but they are no panacea,.... like I mentioned above, what worked for you may not for others for a variety of reasons, water source being a huge factor alone,.. and if there's high pH issues, the dolomite is there to stay and keep the problem going,...
... Ryker, Stoney, did you take pH readings in-pot?

i stand corrected my mistake

 

[Waira]

mate, if it worked OK, and the pH didn't get wonky on you, that's good news, and interesting! I just can't give it a thumbs-up because I don't have experience with doing this, so that's why I whistled up the Biotabs homies Mr.K and Hippy ..... I'm in a position where I have to advise conservatively,.... what grain size was the dolo' you used?

 

[Trichome farmer]

we should let mr.k do the talking for the biotabs like i mentioned im only on my first run with the tabs im still learning this organic mixed mediums all the info i have is taken from other threads i couldnt get dolomite lime so i used plagaron calcium kick which i was told would do the same thing by grow shop

 

[Hippy_BiotabsF70]

Not sure what I can add to this!

Ok well my tap water is seriously high in calcium at around 0.75 EC straight from the tap. So I have done grows with coco and Biotabs and not added any Calmag at all. I have also used Dolomite lime at around two desert spoons per pot.

Unfortunately I’m a massive stoner and I forget things and don’t write things down, so it’s very difficult for me to say how the use of the lime changed things.

Trust Waira! He understands and can quote the science behind it all, which I certainly can’t! [emoji106]

 

[Ryker604_BT]

I agree with listening to Waira but to answer the questions - I didn't measure pH at all and the dolomite lime that I used was a fine, fine powder . Hell, right now I got 3 Hyper Ryder SPG's going day 65 that are super healthy and nice - coco with dolomite lime, BioTabs and no pH measuring at all.

 

[Waira]

:smoking: Ryker, that's why I want to know the in-pot pH very much, inclusing yours!..... the whole pH/lockout/toxicity thing is much more complex, conditional and dynamic that what the charts indicate,... I'm not sure at all how those are generated, but each one I see is a little different,... I like the attenuating bar types best, but they can also be more confusing, ( the width of the bar denote relative degree of availability)... it just might be that the coco is simply sucking up what's released well enough to stay CEC "buffered",...and the dolo's doing it slowly enough not to overload it, despite (presumed) lower in-pot pH,... the more acidic it is in there, the more the dolo' dissolves and releases Ca, Mg and carbonate ions,.....

 

[Ryker604_BT]

:smoking: Ryker, that's why I want to know the in-pot pH very much, inclusing yours!..... the whole pH/lockout/toxicity thing is much more complex, conditional and dynamic that what the charts indicate,... I'm not sure at all how those are generated, but each one I see is a little different,... I like the attenuating bar types best, but they can also be more confusing, ( the width of the bar denote relative degree of availability)... it just might be that the coco is simply sucking up what's released well enough to stay CEC "buffered",...and the dolo's doing it slowly enough not to overload it, despite (presumed) lower in-pot pH,... the more acidic it in, the more the dlol' dissolves and releases Ca, Mg and carbonate ions,.....

Interesting stuff you're mentioning, makes me look at coco in a new way.
Anyways, I would love to help dude but I ain't got a pH probe for soil, just a cheap-ass pH meter (the yellow-black kind) . However, if you want I can stick that one in soil?

 

[Bodacious Budmonster]

Hi.
So really to be on the safe side with this, I would just continue to make sure my water is in the correct PH range such as 5.8

As that is what I am planning to do, I don’t have an in pot reader (can you link me to the one you said?) but I do have a blue lab guardian which will read my water so I can continue to use that.
Thanks

... Legal-- coco has a powerful affinity for Ca, Mg to a lesser extent,.. it will adhere to the particle so strongly that the roots can't access it, hence the need for elevated Ca-Mg,.. once the coco is sated, the CEC "buffering" (not pH) of these cations will have the proper give-and-take,... rinsing/treating starts at the manufacturers, buffering it's CEC with Ca,.. straight water can screw this up... coco works better at lower pH to keep nute more readily available,... dolomite have carbonate in it, and it's the carbonate anion that buffers pH... because of it's different chemistry, dolomite releases it more slowly, but the more acidic it is in there, the faster this happens, which in turn also releases the carbonate anions...then the pH is forced up!
...true, Biotabs doesn't require you to pH adjust your water (unless it's brutally hard/high ppm, meaning loaded with CaCO3 which is much more chemically active that the molecular complex that dolomite has),... Ca-Mg products these days are largely blend of both nitrate and carbonate derived salts, favoring %-wise the nitrate.... this helps keep pH lower! Using Biotabs does not negate the need to keep the coco pH where it works best, regardless,... IMO, if Biotabs doesn't recommend addition of such pH altering amendments into coco, I'd pay heed personally,.. maybe @Biotabs F69 and @Hippy_BiotabsF70 will have more insight on this,... I don't know the details of Stoney and Rykers deals, so I err on the side of caution! .... In any case, I recommend getting a pH probe made for in-pot measuring to monitor things; the Accurate 8 is a decent unit and not expensive (compared to a pro-model unit, which works more like an actual pH meter made for liquids).... this is it-->

.... I think once the Tabs are active, the need for extra Ca-Mg might be negated, or greatly reduced,... the problem is with dolomite, if you have high pH problem, your f*cked because there's no removing it! ... with hand-adjusted amending, you can control what goes in, have less potential impact on pH, and not risk overloading it with free ions that can cause other issues with certain nute's uptake,.. too much Ca/Mg will interfere with this, even if not at true toxicity levels,....

>> Stoney-- the bacteria do help, but they are no panacea,.... like I mentioned above, what worked for you may not for others for a variety of reasons, water source being a huge factor alone,.. and if there's high pH issues, the dolomite is there to stay and keep the problem going,...
... Ryker, Stoney, did you take pH readings in-pot?