Amount of light?

Here's one with hemp (also Cannabis sativa L.) that has also a diagram of photosynthesis rate. Kinda high, too.

I kind of like this one but I do wonder about a couple of things.

I don't find any mention of the particular method in which they cultivated outside of using DWC. Was there trellis?

1800ppfd or roughly 78 DLI to only net 519g per meter squared only works out to roughly 51g per square foot.

Two week veg? I see 14 days to root, transplant, topping after 10 days but not overall veg time.

I go to look at the light company, Lumigrow 650, and I'm not impressed. Vague metrics and a horrid excuse for a ppfd chart. This would have been more valuable using several different types of lighting. The company claims 40% efficiency over HID 1000W but which kind? Single ended? Double?

No real mention of plant height. I wish they had it in there? Do you see it? I see the initial height but not any final height.

Could you quote where they really explain how stronger levels of lighting influence the middle?

I think using that facilities standard operating procedures was part of the problem. 50g or so per square foot isn't super impressive imo. What size was the overall grow space per culture basin? I thought I saw 8x2 but I'm not sure.
this is all in response at @Son of Hobbes request to deliver scientific backup of the light-saturation point/photosynthesisrate-max.
 

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Here's another one from Chandra, not free but puts the LPS @ 1800-2000ppfd


and a study by Bugber that states at 900ppfd yield was constantly higher than at 700ppfd
THAT IS EXACTLY my very own experience and the reason why I have created my custom lighting setup where I control uv, violet/blue, green/yellow, and red/ir spectrums independently with a controller recreating the actual suns sinusoidal pattern. I turn down the violet/blues when flowering starts or to induce flowering.
 
It's getting crowded.
I think they like the KS3000 set to 75% at 24" at this point.

20220703_091638.jpg
 
THAT IS EXACTLY my very own experience and the reason why I have created my custom lighting setup where I control uv, violet/blue, green/yellow, and red/ir spectrums independently with a controller recreating the actual suns sinusoidal pattern. I turn down the violet/blues when flowering starts or to induce flowering.
Interesting! What kind of diodes you use on these channels? Esp. green is kind of hard to come by for an efficient monochromatic chip...
 
A decade ago we did a number of grows in the midst of an empty spare room to test about harvest mass vs light density. We used 4*1000W HPS fixtures in a closed hood and merely altered ppfd and footprint by decreasing the distance of the lamps that were aranged in an equal square. These were in the middle of the room without near walls so the plants would basically just get to intercept the direct light and not so much reflective wall-light. There was a 30% reduction in footprint, as well as less plants but an accordingly higher ppfd. Draw from the wall remained exactly the same, as did the harvest weight. This is somewhat surprising because all the science behind photosynthesis rates show that it gets less efficient the3 higher the flux is, as there is a diminishing return when gradually more and more photons do get converted to heat.
But still there are quite a number of studies arriving at the same conclusion, that is when they search for a function to describe this increase then the linear modell fits best. As long as one doesn't go overboard with it and keeps the tops still healthy. Got to add, we did prune the big fanleaves from the tops to allow the light also to reach the middle leaves, as the tops already benefit from the higher ppfd numbers. Vegging time was 2 months so there was enough foliage so that still all light got absorbed by the plants and not hit the bottom or pots. I mean, if one prunes THAT heavily then surely a reduction in yield is to be expected.

But what is responsible for this 'linear increase'?
I believe this has physiological reasons, and lies somewhere within the daily sugar demand a plant needs to grow. Some of the sugar would be used to keep the own cells alive - a "metabolic rate", which would have to be substracted from the net amount of sugar generated day by day. This is a flat/base substraction that should rise as the plant grows bigger. What's leftover can be turned into new biomass, which is what we understand or see as "normal growth". Now it stands to reason that a low influx of daily sugar will suffer more from the base substraction than a high one. To make an example:
If 50k mol (glucose) are needed for base, and 500ppfd will grant 100k whereas 1000ppfd grants a (diminished) 150k, then after subtracting the base what's left for new growth would be 50k-500ppfd vs 100k-1000ppfd which is a double increase.

Now these numbers are entirely made up just to state an example of how to explain the observation.
I'm actually looking for more scientific info into these mechanisms. That "light-compensation-point" is kind of a manifestation of such a base need where photosynthesis done at 63ppfd won't result in additional growth. Keeping mothers in a real low light environment is another experience that shows how much growth can be slowed down, with the typical adaptations of the plant to compensate the lack of sugar, e.g. only small 3-fingered leaves
 
Interesting! What kind of diodes you use on these channels? Esp. green is kind of hard to come by for an efficient monochromatic chip...
For the green spectrum(and most other individual led's that I use) I had used Luxeon C color leds, but now I am running Samsung LM301H ONE diodes, (below is spectrograph) to cover the green spectrum.
92eaeeae-a1bc-43cc-8747-8dcb88e8d5d8QU8nigyJgDW6s3JGIQfHJhjIrr3QeasrnfrhLfO2.jpeg


And here is a pic of my latest lighting setup(waiting on 395, 405, 415 Nm Lumileds to arrive)
IMG_20220703_123322.jpg


Here is another green led option, https://rapidled.com/collections/green-leds/products/green-led-puck
 
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@Son of Hobbes this lighting conversation has nagged at me in the back of my mind for awhile. I believe an important element of lighting that isn't discussed was overlooked. Regardless of much light cannabis can tolerate, plant canopy management is ignored. Big plants produce more humidity, are more prone to pest/Disease, and allow less overall light to the plant hence pruning becomes necessary.

I'm not too familiar with how this would be accomplished with autos but imo the ideal method of growing indoors would be in a SOG. Higher density planting, even several to one pot, with shorter overall heights would maximize the efficiency of the light. It isn't practical to go beyond 1200ppfd with c02 because of HVAC/energy/resources cost being more than the overall yield.

With photos we're looking at more harvest per month with reduced veg time that fully capitalizes on lighting since the plants are shorter. In regards to autos, do we restrict pot size to keep height lower in conjunction with topping?

Aside from the cost of seeds, consistency, and control, autos would be preferable for the home grower with a smaller budget for lighting. 500 PPFD over 24 hours would be be 43 DLI comparable to 1000 ppfd over 12 hours. This is going to work much better with smaller plants while making height limitations non issue

What you think?
 
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