Photone app numbers

Photone has a custom calibration setting. You use your lights par maps dead center reading at a given height and photone will adjust its readings to better fit the light, just make sure your space is the same space as whats depicted on the par map, unfortunately I cant do this, my light is rated for a 4x4 and I have it in a 3x3. Seems pretty accurate regardless.
 
Thank you for your thoughts. How does one calibrate the app for a specific light ? I don't have a clue.

I'm not adverse to buying a proper meter but don't want to spend a fortune on one because I've been growing enough weed for me and to give some away for five years or so without one.

Think I'll slide over to Amazon and price them, if anyone has a recommendation I'm all ears.
You either borrow a real par meter, or use the par map, or pay for the calibration info if Photone has done calibration for your specific light. If you have to use the par map in a smaller tent than the one used for the par map, you could adjust the par estimate up accordingly, but I am not sure by how much. Cocoforcannabis may have some information that would allow you to make an educated guess. Bottom line is that in a smaller tent, par will be higher, all else being equal. I noticed that in the review of this light, Cocoforcannabis also included par maps for a 4x4, so you could start from there.

The best plan though would be to borrow or rent a par meter to do your calibration. That would remove any mischief caused by tent size. You will still need to do your reading with your tent as closed as possible to simulate what your plants experience.

Good luck with it. :pighug:
 
I see there is some debate about the validity of the readings, these are the numbers I got -

44" above phone, Medic Smart Grow light, set to 40% ( 300 watts) DLI - 16.8 & PPFD - 195

Do these seem reasonable, as in ballpark ? I just want to use them as a guideline, I'm going to trust my eyes and what little common sense I've got left.

Just finished my first grow with this new light and I'm sure that I overdosed the plants with too much light. It was by far not my best effort .
Second grow with new light underway. Bought an eighty dollar meter off of Amazon, read a little, played around with the new meter, raised the light to 53" above the pots and here we are 17 days in . Four Marley's Grin & two Mango Smile x 4 Assed Monkeys - Light set at 40% 18/6 , on day 21 will turn on red bloom diodes. We'll see what happens.
 

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Second grow with new light underway. Bought an eighty dollar meter off of Amazon, read a little, played around with the new meter, raised the light to 53" above the pots and here we are 17 days in . Four Marley's Grin & two Mango Smile x 4 Assed Monkeys - Light set at 40% 18/6 , on day 21 will turn on red bloom diodes. We'll see what happens.
New light and I getting along fine now. Day 45
 

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I can't advise on the specific readings you are getting.

Photone readings are close enough if calibrated to your specific light, but debatable otherwise. I believe that the problem is that the sensor in the phone does not have the same sensitivity to different wavelengths of light that a proper par sensor does, so it may not detect all the wavelengths that are important for plants, or accurately determine wavelength distribution. When you get a reading off the photone app, you are getting a light intensity reading which, while not measuring par properly, can be used to calculate likely par levels if the app has been calibrated for your specific light. Absent specific calibration, the app has no way of knowing what your specific light is producing that cannot be measured by the phone sensor. Bottom line is that good calibration will mean decent predictions, poor or absent calibration may make poor predictions, and you will have no way of knowing how close they are.
The sensor in a camera reads the entire PAR range but is designed to be highly sensitive to green because that it can properly expose images for humans. Human eyes are very sensitive to green and we are able to discern a huge number of different shades of green.

The purpose of selecting the right light type is that Photone will then apply a conversion factor to the green heavy light reading, which in lux. If the spectrum of the light has a lot of blue, the light isn't putting out as many photons as a light that has a red heavy spectrum.

Photone can give accurate readings, provided that your phone has a similar sensitivity to the sensor for which the software is designed and provided that you choose the right light type and provided that you remember to use the diffuser.

If you don't use the diffuser, you will not get a valid reading. Light meters in cameras are designed to read the light coming directly into the camera lens (some light meters in cameras read only the center 2° or 3° of light.) That's completely wrong when it comes to trying to determine how much light is falling on a plant canopy because, assuming the grow is in a tent, light is coming in from a very wide angle. That's why growlightmeter.com states that you need to use a diffuser and they even sell a clip on diffuser.

If your sensor is not one for which the software is designed, that's another source of inaccuracy. When I test Photone, called Korona back then, I was using an iPhone xsMax and Photone was, consistently, 16% high. When I tested it against a Kind blurple, Photone could not generate a result even though I had selected the blurple setting.

I traded email with the programmer and forwarded him my results. I've been a software engineer for 30+ years, including 3 for Apple and started in photography in the early 1970's so I have some insights into the problem he's trying to solve. What concerned me at the time was that they were not specifying the weight of the bond paper to be used so I tested 20, 22, and 24# paper. Soon after our email conversation, they specified 22# paper.

Photone may work quite well or it may not. I would only recommend that it be used if the phone that you're using is one of the models with which they have tested the software. I would also recommend purchasing the diffuser because putting a strip of paper around the phone is a total PITA. On the other hand, in my testing, it was reading 16% high when compared to my calibrated Apogee against a Growcraft X3 flower light.

While Photone can be useful, I would completely disregard the DLI charts that they display on their website. I contacted them about the source that they use for their recommendations and told me that any citations would be on the bottom of each web page. Last I checked, there were none. That's understandable, frankly, because all research done on grow lighting that crop yield increases in an alos linear manner as light levels increase. There's nothing in "the research" that recommend dropping DLI as the plant matures.

The recommendations of autoflowers were made because, according to the programmer, they consider autos to be always in veg (or maybe it was in flower. It was so absurd that I really don't care to remember.) I've done about a dozen photo and auto grows and, in all cases, I aggressively light my grows.

For my auto grows, after I started learning about how cannabis reacts to light, I would feed them at DLI's of 70 and 80mols. Assuming that your grow is in good shape and that you want a large crop, there's simply no reason not to get cannabis as much light as it can handle, regardless of it being a photo or an auto.

Back to Photone—if you've got a phone that's known to work with their software and if you use the right light setting and if you use a diffuser, it can be a valuable aid.

Parting thought - a light meter (PAR meter) will tell you how much light is falling on the plant. That's helpful for getting the light settings in the general vicinity of where you want them to be. Measuring PPFD is also helpful because it allows you to set light levels for subsequent grows. But measuring light isn't the goal. It's a way of achieving the goal of getting a lot of light on your plants to maximize crop yield and quality. And you can't do that by setting the light levels to a given number on a meter. Instead, the light meter lets you get the light levels about where you think they should be but you've got to watch your plants. A light meter tells you how much light is being generates but only the plants can tell you how much light they can use.


One additional complexity is that if you compare with published PPFD maps, you have to do so in the same enclosure used when making the PPFD map. The size of space being illuminated, and the reflectivity of the walls makes a big difference to ppfd distribtion. And you can't get an appropriate reading with the tent door wide open, you have to take the reading with the enclosure as close to sealed up as you can manage. If I take a reading with my par meter with the drobe door open, the readings are quite a bit lower than with the door nearly closed.
I've taken readings my Gorilla tent with flaps open and flaps closed. When the flaps are closed, there's about another 100µmol falling on a 6" wide strip running across the front of the tent. If you are using a light meter that does not have a wand, you can just add 100µmol but that's where a PAR meter really shines (pardon the pun) because it allows you to take readings throughout the tent with the flaps closed.


If you have access to a par meter, you could calibrate your phone well yourself, but careful use of PPFD maps should get you close enough.
Agreee 100%.

A light meter is an "area weapon" (US Army artillery officer before I took up software). Once you get close with a meter, you adjust fire by watching the plants.
 

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The sensor in a camera reads the entire PAR range but is designed to be highly sensitive to green because that it can properly expose images for humans. Human eyes are very sensitive to green and we are able to discern a huge number of different shades of green.

The purpose of selecting the right light type is that Photone will then apply a conversion factor to the green heavy light reading, which in lux. If the spectrum of the light has a lot of blue, the light isn't putting out as many photons as a light that has a red heavy spectrum.

Photone can give accurate readings, provided that your phone has a similar sensitivity to the sensor for which the software is designed and provided that you choose the right light type and provided that you remember to use the diffuser.

If you don't use the diffuser, you will not get a valid reading. Light meters in cameras are designed to read the light coming directly into the camera lens (some light meters in cameras read only the center 2° or 3° of light.) That's completely wrong when it comes to trying to determine how much light is falling on a plant canopy because, assuming the grow is in a tent, light is coming in from a very wide angle. That's why growlightmeter.com states that you need to use a diffuser and they even sell a clip on diffuser.

If your sensor is not one for which the software is designed, that's another source of inaccuracy. When I test Photone, called Korona back then, I was using an iPhone xsMax and Photone was, consistently, 16% high. When I tested it against a Kind blurple, Photone could not generate a result even though I had selected the blurple setting.

I traded email with the programmer and forwarded him my results. I've been a software engineer for 30+ years, including 3 for Apple and started in photography in the early 1970's so I have some insights into the problem he's trying to solve. What concerned me at the time was that they were not specifying the weight of the bond paper to be used so I tested 20, 22, and 24# paper. Soon after our email conversation, they specified 22# paper.

Photone may work quite well or it may not. I would only recommend that it be used if the phone that you're using is one of the models with which they have tested the software. I would also recommend purchasing the diffuser because putting a strip of paper around the phone is a total PITA. On the other hand, in my testing, it was reading 16% high when compared to my calibrated Apogee against a Growcraft X3 flower light.

While Photone can be useful, I would completely disregard the DLI charts that they display on their website. I contacted them about the source that they use for their recommendations and told me that any citations would be on the bottom of each web page. Last I checked, there were none. That's understandable, frankly, because all research done on grow lighting that crop yield increases in an alos linear manner as light levels increase. There's nothing in "the research" that recommend dropping DLI as the plant matures.

The recommendations of autoflowers were made because, according to the programmer, they consider autos to be always in veg (or maybe it was in flower. It was so absurd that I really don't care to remember.) I've done about a dozen photo and auto grows and, in all cases, I aggressively light my grows.

For my auto grows, after I started learning about how cannabis reacts to light, I would feed them at DLI's of 70 and 80mols. Assuming that your grow is in good shape and that you want a large crop, there's simply no reason not to get cannabis as much light as it can handle, regardless of it being a photo or an auto.

Back to Photone—if you've got a phone that's known to work with their software and if you use the right light setting and if you use a diffuser, it can be a valuable aid.

Parting thought - a light meter (PAR meter) will tell you how much light is falling on the plant. That's helpful for getting the light settings in the general vicinity of where you want them to be. Measuring PPFD is also helpful because it allows you to set light levels for subsequent grows. But measuring light isn't the goal. It's a way of achieving the goal of getting a lot of light on your plants to maximize crop yield and quality. And you can't do that by setting the light levels to a given number on a meter. Instead, the light meter lets you get the light levels about where you think they should be but you've got to watch your plants. A light meter tells you how much light is being generates but only the plants can tell you how much light they can use.



I've taken readings my Gorilla tent with flaps open and flaps closed. When the flaps are closed, there's about another 100µmol falling on a 6" wide strip running across the front of the tent. If you are using a light meter that does not have a wand, you can just add 100µmol but that's where a PAR meter really shines (pardon the pun) because it allows you to take readings throughout the tent with the flaps closed.



Agreee 100%.

A light meter is an "area weapon" (US Army artillery officer before I took up software). Once you get close with a meter, you adjust fire by watching the plants.
I use a par meter, my explanation was to help others who don't. In order for Photone to estimate PAR, it must know both the spectrum sensitivity of the specific phone sensor, as well as the spectrum and intensity of the specific grow light being checked. If either is missing in the database, assumptions will be made, and the resulting estimate of PAR may be inaccurate. Using generic types for identifying the phone or light may or may not work depending on whether the resulting assumptions are close enough, but there is no way for the user to know whether they are. My phone is a common one and listed, but my diy screwins are not, so I bought a PAR meter. In any case, I adjust spectrum by changing bulbs, so there is no assumption that will be accurate for my setup.

I agree that starting with metering can help, but reading plants will be needed anyway. OTOH, it is my impression that too little light is more common than too much, and more important than minor differences in spectrum. :pighug:
 
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I use a par meter, my explanation was to help others who don't. In order for Photone to estimate PAR, it must know both the spectrum sensitivity of the specific phone sensor, as well as the spectrum and intensity of the specific grow light being checked. If either is missing in the database, assumptions will be made, and the resulting estimate of PAR may be inaccurate. Using generic types for identifying the phone or light may or may not work depending on whether the resulting assumptions are close enough, but there is no way for the user to know whether they are. My phone is a common one and listed, but my diy screwins are not, so I bought a PAR meter. In any case, I adjust spectrum by changing bulbs, so there is no assumption that will be accurate for my setup.

I agree that starting with metering can help, but reading plants will be needed anyway. OTOH, it is my impression that too little light is more common than too much, and more important than minor differences in spectrum. :pighug:
"I use a par meter, my explanation was to help others who don't." Got it.

The data about the iPhone sensor is well know because there aren't that many models and it's not hard to get the info about the sensor. On the other hand, the Android world is a much different situation. I've been a software engineer for 30+ years, including a stint fo Apple, so I traded emails with the programmer back in 2021. Photone can determine which sensor is used and adjust for that but, given that anyone can throw together a phone and get it to run the Android OS, it can be a real crapshoot on Android.

Two big issues, regardless of how your measuring light. All of your measurements are wrong. I had my Apogee calibrated last summer and it came back as "5%±" because that's all Apogee will tell you. I measure light daily and record the results. For seedlings, it's one data point. As the plant matures (I can only fit one plant in my 2' x 4' tent), I switch to a grid pattern and then, in flower, I measure the light at the top of the bud.

In my tent, I get different readings between the left side of the bud and the right side of the bud. If I take one set of readings and then take a second set just a few minutes later, I'll get different readings. Why? Because I took readings in a slightly different location and/or a slightly different height.

It's helpful to have the numbers but a 50µmol inaccuracy is, in the long run, going to even out because there is so much variation in the grow environment that, over the course of a grow (mine run 110 days), I suspect that the other variables swamp the variance in PPFD. We define and refine processes for our grows but this is growing a plant so there's a lot of "slop".

"OTOH, it is my impression that too little light is more common than too much, and more important than minor differences in spectrum."
Absolutely. The top of my signature block (on another forum) reads "Growers lose more yield from their crop by not giving their plants enough light than they do by giving their plants too much light."

It took me about three grows to get out of the "600µmol" ghetto. I did call bullshit on the ridiculous chart the growlightmeter.com displays but there's still a huge amount of CW in the cannabis world that keeps growers from getting the best out of their crop.
 
"I use a par meter, my explanation was to help others who don't." Got it.

The data about the iPhone sensor is well know because there aren't that many models and it's not hard to get the info about the sensor. On the other hand, the Android world is a much different situation. I've been a software engineer for 30+ years, including a stint fo Apple, so I traded emails with the programmer back in 2021. Photone can determine which sensor is used and adjust for that but, given that anyone can throw together a phone and get it to run the Android OS, it can be a real crapshoot on Android.

Two big issues, regardless of how your measuring light. All of your measurements are wrong. I had my Apogee calibrated last summer and it came back as "5%±" because that's all Apogee will tell you. I measure light daily and record the results. For seedlings, it's one data point. As the plant matures (I can only fit one plant in my 2' x 4' tent), I switch to a grid pattern and then, in flower, I measure the light at the top of the bud.

In my tent, I get different readings between the left side of the bud and the right side of the bud. If I take one set of readings and then take a second set just a few minutes later, I'll get different readings. Why? Because I took readings in a slightly different location and/or a slightly different height.

It's helpful to have the numbers but a 50µmol inaccuracy is, in the long run, going to even out because there is so much variation in the grow environment that, over the course of a grow (mine run 110 days), I suspect that the other variables swamp the variance in PPFD. We define and refine processes for our grows but this is growing a plant so there's a lot of "slop".

"OTOH, it is my impression that too little light is more common than too much, and more important than minor differences in spectrum."
Absolutely. The top of my signature block (on another forum) reads "Growers lose more yield from their crop by not giving their plants enough light than they do by giving their plants too much light."

It took me about three grows to get out of the "600µmol" ghetto. I did call bullshit on the ridiculous chart the growlightmeter.com displays but there's still a huge amount of CW in the cannabis world that keeps growers from getting the best out of their crop.
[I'm waiting to receive a Photone diffuser. In the meantime:].

Does discussion and guidance regarding light levels work in terms of watts drawn/surface area? For ex., I have 740 watts draw among 3 quantum boards in a 12.5 sq. ft. tent = 59 watt/sq. ft. Does this piece of data have much meaning, or does only actual light measurement count?
 
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