New Grower 1st grow - 24x24x55 - autocob

[The Iconoclast]

@thedailydose, looking good time will start to drag from here on in ;¬)

"...try not to remove any leaves from the plant, as they are nute reserves for flowering !"

Then how do you explain my first grow OG Kush grow where you can see that I went all in and furiously stripped it of leaves many times before and during flowering and ended up with 13 zips of frosty bud using a single viparspectra. Just sayin'

 

[Mr. K]

Then how do you explain my first grow OG Kush grow where you can see that I went all in and furiously stripped it of leaves many times before and during flowering and ended up with 13 zips of frosty bud using a single viparspectra. Just sayin'

Experience builds confidence.
A first-time grower might not have the same success if they attempted heavily defoliation on their first few grows.
I doubt I would have.

 

[Daxxor]

Hey sorry for the Like Bomb! Just got a chance to catch up on your grow! Looking fantastic bro! I am subbed in and following.

 

[The Iconoclast]

Experience builds confidence.
A first-time grower might not have the same success if they attempted heavily defoliation on their first few grows.
I doubt I would have.

Sure, but that goes for every aspect of growing. But the thing that differentiates humans from all other animals so fundamentally that it tops everything else, is that we have language and can communicate ideas and then build upon that knowledge. I dove right in based solely on the trust of what I had seen.

Notice that most people who will be 'pro' defoliation have done it and are speaking from experience and most people who are against it have not done it and base their reasoning on what appears to be common sense to them. But it's mostly advice based on anthropomorphising the plant.

The best advice I ever heard about defoliation was "I'm wanting to grow buds, not leaves" and that's really what it comes down to. Now I'm not saying everyone should defoliate because there's more to growing a plant than yield or even buds. But defoliation is so much more than just about letting more light get to the plant. My experiences tend to back up the claims that defoliating is a form of MST, or medium stress training in a sense, because as everyone who defoliates will tell you the leaves come storming back quickly but it's as if it shocks the plant into action, it appears there is a chemical reaction to a large sudden loss of leaves. Anyway for me it's a continual ongoing experiment and in the future I hope to do a side by side to sort this out once and for all.

So I will take off large healthy leaves that are not blocking the light for this reason too (to cause deliberate stress). So far it has not caused me any problems at all even though I always think I've gone to far then a few days later I think I didn't go far enough. Now another benefit of defoliation is that by week four when you've got this large block of interlocking leaves, you can do a complete defoliation at this stage then the entire structure of the plant will become visible and this is the best time to see what the plant wants to do and what you'd like her to do and it's so much easier to do the major planning and tying like this.

 

[Tony21]

Sure, but that goes for every aspect of growing. But the thing that differentiates humans from all other animals so fundamentally that it tops everything else, is that we have language and can communicate ideas and then build upon that knowledge. I dove right in based solely on the trust of what I had seen.

Notice that most people who will be 'pro' defoliation have done it and are speaking from experience and most people who are against it have not done it and base their reasoning on what appears to be common sense to them. But it's mostly advice based on anthropomorphising the plant.

The best advice I ever heard about defoliation was "I'm wanting to grow buds, not leaves" and that's really what it comes down to. Now I'm not saying everyone should defoliate because there's more to growing a plant than yield or even buds. But defoliation is so much more than just about letting more light get to the plant. My experiences tend to back up the claims that defoliating is a form of MST, or medium stress training in a sense, because as everyone who defoliates will tell you the leaves come storming back quickly but it's as if it shocks the plant into action, it appears there is a chemical reaction to a large sudden loss of leaves. Anyway for me it's a continual ongoing experiment and in the future I hope to do a side by side to sort this out once and for all.

So I will take off large healthy leaves that are not blocking the light for this reason too (to cause deliberate stress). So far it has not caused me any problems at all even though I always think I've gone to far then a few days later I think I didn't go far enough. Now another benefit of defoliation is that by week four when you've got this large block of interlocking leaves, you can do a complete defoliation at this stage then the entire structure of the plant will become visible and this is the best time to see what the plant wants to do and what you'd like her to do and it's so much easier to do the major planning and tying like this.

what he said.

"Notice that most people who will be 'pro' defoliation have done it and are speaking from experience and most people who are against it have not done it and base their reasoning on what appears to be common sense to them."

That sums it up very neatly, well said

 

[Frenjamin Banklin]

I noticed recently that breeders notes for Mephisto states what type of training would be beneficial for certain strains. Some it said “likes heavy “ or “ light defol beneficial “ or if I remember “doesn’t like defol but leaf tucking helps”. It was an eye opener for me to always check breeders notes as hopefully they know the strain better than I do. Huge success topping or heavy defol one one strain might destroy another.

I’ve had god luck with LST and medium defol at all stages of growth.

FB

 

[The Iconoclast]

Huge success topping or heavy defol one one strain might destroy another.

Again, sounds plausible, but where does it come from, there must be side by sides, where all other factors can be ruled out. What you say may be true or it may not, therefore it's useless as knowledge. One just has to bother to do the testing, which I will be doing in my current three in one pot experiment, I'll tag you when I update the thread.

 

[Frenjamin Banklin]

Yeah but you missed what I was saying.

If you decide to experiment on a plant that the breeder has already established through many trials to be sensitive to cutting during growth you are not really breaking new ground or headed down a path of revelation. Just confirming a bad outcome, but if you must know for sure on your own that that certain plant can be stunted and produce less then please confirm for us.

What I was saying is that ONE of the many factors on whether something can be successful is to look at the breeders notes on care of the plant.

If someone that believes in a certain LST method has only tried it on a plant that the breeder recommends against testing and then has subsequently failed at it then it is not a very good basis for opinion or fact. They may be totally against it, but only because they did not do the research before hand on the care of that particular strain.

Best of luck with your experiments.

 

[The Iconoclast]

Yeah but you missed what I was saying.

If you decide to experiment on a plant that the breeder has already established through many trials to be sensitive to cutting during growth you are not really breaking new ground or headed down a path of revelation. Just confirming a bad outcome, but if you must know for sure on your own that that certain plant can be stunted and produce less then please confirm for us.

What I was saying is that ONE of the many factors on whether something can be successful is to look at the breeders notes on care of the plant.

If someone that believes in a certain LST method has only tried it on a plant that the breeder recommends against testing and then has subsequently failed at it then it is not a very good basis for opinion or fact. They may be totally against it, but only because they did not do the research before hand on the care of that particular strain.

Best of luck with your experiments.

Hi FB, maybe I didn't convey it well enough but, yes I did get what you were saying but it's good to check. But you see we are back to the same thing, someone, you in this case, says ...that the breeder has already established through many trials... you have conveniently plucked out of the air the mystery everyman breeder, who "has already established", "through many trials" what was it that was established exactly, how many trials. I'm not arguing I'm just playing the devil's advocate here.

I've been proving the 'experts' wrong, in a few fields of mine over the past 50 years, these days I do my own testing. But I'm always up for a challenge, you find me some seed that really doesn't like to defoliated or hacked into and I'll grow it and do exactly that to it, and then we'll see. You locate the most challenging plant and I'll take up the challenge. How's that. Maybe put it under my new Mars TS-2000

 

[Frenjamin Banklin]

Got it now, you want to prove everyone else is wrong. I’m not up for that challenge.

Sorry I misunderstood.

I’ll just watch quietly from the back row.