History

The Third Cross Theory:

When you put two different crosses into a mix...you can get either Parent dominants..and everything inbetween...

We have been told you can have either Photo or Auto

Autos: They come to flower on light patterns beween 18/6 and 24 hours and go straight from flower to bud. No second veg period.
Photos: They need 12/12 to flower.

We also have Fast Flower: They will flower on any light pattern...but..they go into a second veg period after flower.

IMO...this cross by description is neither fully Auto..or fully Photo..it defies both standard descriptions.

New Cross....?

I don't know how to classify it..but..I Know it is there.......it has been there since the Begining...


Big Autos that defy the Traditional Auto traits. Neither fish nor fowl ...Fast Flower.
Fast Flower will flower under light from 18/6 to 24 hour..believe me..I've tried it......
They get to flower stage between 4-5 weeks...and stop..Reveg...and this reveg period can last for up to 5 weeks...like watching paint dry.....then they bud up...and Will Finish on 24 hour light period.

Waira said:

Anyway, what's up with Giggle fast flower Aunty, is what I was asking above? This is a non-auto'ing F4/5, still light sensitive, but speedy blooming? I'd run that, but it'd be luck-of-the-draw to get it seed per seed, right?

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@FullDuplex has Played with it...it Might be in his Big girl....but you would need to check.
I Know he said it was a useful Tool for him.

The ones I Hit I wasn't Impressed with.....took around 140 days to finish on mine...personlly..I'd rather grow 2 decent Autos on the same growth period...but that is me.....Patience is Not my virtue.

Probably...if I'd played with it I could have got the finish time down...but on my conditions at the time they topped 4 ft..and that took some Hiding on the patio...so I didn't work them.

Waira said:

Stone Dragon, of course!

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Stone Dragon: Black Dragon x Jack47

@FullDuplex Black Dragon x Buddah Kush...?...if I remeber rightly..

Waira said:

I recall Sniper said he once had a BD so lemon terp' rich the room smoke smelled like it a hour later --- *sigh*....dammit!

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Sigh..Lemons........everything from light eau de cologne to lemon sherbet that gets stuck in the bridge of your nose that makes you sneeze like chuff...love me lemons..coz tha's where the Incense Hides....

No hide nor hair on @sniper ...I Know he was covering his Mom's work while she recovered..but that was a long while back...
Maybe he has morphed into a Pokemon...have you seen any new ones lately...?......you know how addicted he was..

Waira said:

Russians, I better be sure they aren't an illusion, it's been a while,.... they are more than a few years old, but I'm betting plenty viable still!

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@Rebel is sitting with the Russian stock..she just hasn't been around......I Loved that Russian Dragon..

hairyman said:

bottom left is a late pot up from kush side,,bottom right is fd BW ,,quite similair apart from leaf colour,,,is the nicest from the three i had and both similair to the two

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Yeah..?...set me ticking..wondering if it is the male from this pheno causing the Trouble........

The males (and females) from Fast Flower are Stunning...like Stud Muffins....I Understand anyone using them as a breeding tool...but..if they go over about 3 weeks to get into flower...Don't use them..

IMO...they are at the crux of the Non Autoflower Rash we see in a lot of grows.

The plants we Spot as Non Auto aren't photo plants..they are Fast Flower.

Problem with a Male plant...?

They Flower like an Auto...and as soon as a male flowers..he is Fertile...breeders breed when the males are fertile..and cut them down..they are not spotting the second re-veg in them...because they are not Expecting something that is flouting the basic rules..

Mossy said:

The ones I Hit I wasn't Impressed with.....took around 140 days to finish on mine...personlly..I'd rather grow 2 decent Autos on the same growth period...but that is me.....Patience is Not my virtue.

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I totally agree with that one,,,but they are stunners. Will see how long I can keep em going


So the mix tub is mixing ,,

And I got two other males,, both would be showy but just kept tops going,



I got a wee plan in me head,, its going to be a long path

So back right my fav would be a Nl leaning pheno¿ I going to struggle keep up with her,, only in 3ltr,, to be fair they all stunners and up and above a lot I have run ,,,,Mossys build yourself a dragon reg selection, would be a top draw offering to the world me thinks,,

The two ff can stay for now, going to be hard cutting them though,,

Dropping the last set

Mossy said:

Stone Dragon: Black Dragon x Jack47

@FullDuplex Black Dragon x Buddah Kush...?...if I remeber rightly..



Sigh..Lemons........everything from light eau de cologne to lemon sherbet that gets stuck in the bridge of your nose that makes you sneeze like chuff...love me lemons..coz tha's where the Incense Hides....

No hide nor hair on @sniper ...I Know he was covering his Mom's work while she recovered..but that was a long while back...
Maybe he has morphed into a Pokemon...have you seen any new ones lately...?......you know how addicted he was..



@Rebel is sitting with the Russian stock..she just hasn't been around......I Loved that Russian Dragon..

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Sorry! I'll do a germ test tonight... They have been stored properly...

Rebel said:

Sorry! I'll do a germ test tonight... They have been stored properly...

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Don't Worry about it @Rebel .. ..the seeds were a good age even before you got them...

I'm finalllllly getting around to growing some Dragons this year! Whew it'll be a miracle of the Canna gods if the germ is good haha. Hoping to have a few Black Dragon (F2) and a few Frosts make it

I owe a catch up to many. Work is demanding right now for me. Supporting 500 users remotely changes the landscape. Hope you all are well.

as for the other half of my time.

green house early autos. (Rudi x Durban Poison f2) X (Anvil f5) F2.

code name Damascus. 2 weeks old before adding to the hoopie.


Huglekulture bed photos

Veggies for the season


and the recent Bobby’s Widow harvest

Mossy said:

The Third Cross Theory:

When you put two different crosses into a mix...you can get either Parent dominants..and everything inbetween...

We have been told you can have either Photo or Auto

Autos: They come to flower on light patterns beween 18/6 and 24 hours and go straight from flower to bud. No second veg period.
Photos: They need 12/12 to flower.

We also have Fast Flower: They will flower on any light pattern...but..they go into a second veg period after flower.

IMO...this cross by description is neither fully Auto..or fully Photo..it defies both standard descriptions.

New Cross....?

I don't know how to classify it..but..I Know it is there.......it has been there since the Begining...


Big Autos that defy the Traditional Auto traits. Neither fish nor fowl ...Fast Flower.

Click to expand...

That's a weirder reaction/outcome than I've seen with auto x photo F1's, though it's not the first time I've heard of it, the partial reveg' phase,...Everything in between indeed! ... Or were yours F1's? F2's? **(Wait, F4's?)** .... I assume your Giggle grew outside full time, under what light dark hours? .... I didn't know FD had the Giggle ,... @FullDuplex how did they behave? ...... whatever the case, if the F4 giggles were still showing that reveg' funkiness, I'd not pursue it as a "fast version" line to work,... And of course, as you mentioned, not for auto's either!
I'm not sure exactly what Sweet and the other "fast version" breeders have done, but with Sweet they say it's an F1 cross (good article on this in their section)... No doubt they are making fem's from plants that behave a very specific way, and seem to have excellent stability. Every one I run does exactly what it should, behave like a regular photo in all aspects, maybe easier triggering to bloom (hard to call, it's close), it's the speed of blooming that much quicker to finish.
In other F1 crosses I ran, both started in the tent but went to OD's prior to blooming; the MoB/OGK x C99auto F1 seemed to behave like an auto; sexed on cue (a tad later, but within fair range for auto's), started to bloom in earnest as well, but she did not finish with "auto" speed, or even F1FV speed... she took about the same time as MoB photo' did to finish.
The cross from Magic I ran, White Crack auto x Legend OG, behaved like a faster than usual "Sweet type" F1FV; veg'ed for 6 weeks, bloomed early (beginning of Aug., 2+ weeks ahead of photo's), and finished in about 6 weeks...
From another forum I saw some landrace PNG show the rare "auto"-like pheno's, going into bloom under 18+hours light and finish fast, while same seed batch showed mainly the typical long cycle equatorial parents Sativa dom. behavior... I hear this in other heirloom/landrace strains as well... I suspect this shows that the auto' mechanism/genetics is far more complex than a simple recessive allele thing... Consider, that the equatorial plants are under nearly 12/12 all year long, right? Technically, one can think of them as auto's in a way because of the lack of significant light hour changing, yet they still bloom! Then again we're talking months and months of bloom time, so there's that as well.... Whatever the deal is, Stick, Magic, Stone all have said they have had F1 auto x photo crosses go fully auto on them; Magic has an (auto x photo) x auto cross that will not auto! (Magic Trick)... How's that for WTF?
That trick with the PNG and others, it smacks of a survival mechanism that's rare but favored enough to keep recurring in that population,.. makes much sense, consider how old many plants are, yet have survived mass extinction events...

Lessee,... I had auto/photo F2's show auto males, non auto females,.... have you guys seen sex linked manifestations with this before? My case is lacking in statistically significant numbers, but other with the same cross had this as well,...

Mossy said:

No hide nor hair on @sniper ...I Know he was covering his Mom's work while she recovered..but that was a long while back...
Maybe he has morphed into a Pokemon...have you seen any new ones lately...?......you know how addicted he was..

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.... he's been fading slowly for a while now, long before his Mum's accident,... just burnt out on it I guess, and fewer and fewer familiar faces around,...


@hairyman -- those menfolk do look handsome! Those are the types?.. too bad if so; messy buggers aren't they!

@Anthropolis spotted you already! ... good on the Dragon run-

>>> Sensei FD ... I was thinking about you and your job, the work-at-home deal, and the nightmare for logistics and security it would be! ... stay safe and sane best you can me brudda!
Damascus- what a juicy cross man, I miss seeing what's cooking in your kitchen all the time... So, the DP auto, that's from the rudi' you got a while back?..... I gather this is a quickie auto run before the photo's go in?
Bobby looks fantastic! F4, 5?
... Hugle' pics don't show sadly,... That's going to be a show!

Waira said:

@hairyman -- those menfolk do look handsome! Those are the types?.. too bad if so; messy buggers aren't they!

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Nope,, they true auto,,,the males I kept all sexed early under day 20 apart from one who was about 24 but since he the only one with a deep crease to the leaf he was forgiven, and very messy

I only have two of the and I pretty sure they was the only ones and to further muddle the waters, each one came from separate sets 10% chance, they on front row far sides,,,I going to keep as long as i can, but I Ltd for space and if one is male then straight chop but then I do wonder is this like a recessive trait now,, how many further ibl x with what I choose now before it's gone


Front left is aFD bw,,pic below, I was hoping for a male out of the 3 I had to no availe, but good news for m/f ratio for him and that one made the cut, front right came from the kush side and the both look alike in structure and both favour the in looks, though in the top pic you can see the leaf colour is far darker in the bw

@Mossy,, centre back,, if I was sent this as a Mephisto sourcrack I wouldn't blink


A few pics of the sat leaning girl

Hope alls well with everyone and staying safe

days are becoming hours and hours becoming days,,

so how we looking,apart from a bit yellow and sun burnt in places,,,not as bad as they look under daylight



i want a tent full of these

and this,,little chunky monkey

kush and the bw ,, the leaf crinkle i dont get ,no one else is showing it, these slower too bud up ,but coming in strong under all that leaf



the girls in the tub,after males chopped,,so i was wondering can one seed come from two fathers pollen?

i cant throw them away,,, but they just looking pretty ,,seem to have gone into a hybernation ,real slow growth ,,but super healthy and they staying fresh,,by that i mean the stems still subtle, they in suspended veg ,,they remind me of a poinsettia

Anthropolis said:

I'm finalllllly getting around to growing some Dragons this year! Whew it'll be a miracle of the Canna gods if the germ is good haha. Hoping to have a few Black Dragon (F2) and a few Frosts make it

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@Anthropolis

FullDuplex said:

I owe a catch up to many. Work is demanding right now for me. Supporting 500 users remotely changes the landscape. Hope you all are well.

as for the other half of my time.

green house early autos. (Rudi x Durban Poison f2) X (Anvil f5) F2.

code name Damascus. 2 weeks old before adding to the hoopie.
View attachment 1175979View attachment 1175980View attachment 1175981View attachment 1175982

Huglekulture bed photos
View attachment 1175983
Veggies for the season
View attachment 1175984

and the recent Bobby’s Widow harvest
View attachment 1175985View attachment 1175986View attachment 1175987

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Sigh..Roll on Spring........our weather is crap ATM.

Waira said:

. I didn't know FD had the Giggle ,...

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@Waira ..no...FD found it in his own crosses..don't quote me but I Think he said his finished around 100 days and was Worth it..pretty certain he used it in one of his Big crosses.....pretty Certain it was what Stitch was doing with his Super Autos too.

I'll expand..when time permits.

Waira said:

t's the speed of blooming that much quicker to finish.
In other F1 crosses I ran, both started in the tent but went to OD's prior to blooming; the MoB/OGK x C99auto F1 seemed to behave like an auto; sexed on cue (a tad later, but within fair range for auto's), started to bloom in earnest as well, but she did not finish with "auto" speed, or even F1FV speed.

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Sounds like it.
I Thought I'd Hit a revert problem when I got it...couldn't for the life of me understand...my girls were into 15-20 generation Auto.
I even spied from the roof top patio to see if anyone else was growing 'round me..grasping at straws..but it went against what I knew.

I rolled and re-rolled crosses in me head...pinned it back to a Big Showy late flowering male.....Looked to good to be True...Stud Muffin....

When I first got it and thought I'd hit revert I had the low headroom cupboard..so they ended up being thrown outdoor..I Thought it was photo content.

It wasn't until I had the tall set up...I left it under 24 hour light...it went for weeks...doing nothing...the second reveg...then woof..it went back to bud production.



Second reveg after flower...but finish under 24 hour constant light....it fits Neither Classic description....Fast Flower.

Waira said:

Whatever the deal is, Stick, Magic, Stone all have said they have had F1 auto x photo crosses go fully auto on them; M

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Remember me saying I Always got Auto on F1 and that broke the punnet theory thingy...?
That was why...

Waira said:

Lessee,... I had auto/photo F2's show auto males, non auto females,.... have you guys seen sex linked manifestations with this before? My case is lacking in statistically significant numbers, but other with the same cross had this as well,...

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This is what I was saying about the males..and how we see it coming out in well known Breeders lines...

Most breeding ops run females out....but not males.
They do their job...they are chopped down...

Female pistils up...goes into second veg..buds..finishes.
You Watch her finish..you pick it up.

Male goes onto flower...as soon as it does..it is pollenating..you pollenate and kill it...you don't spot the second veg.....you just Think it is a bit large and late in to flower.

@hairyman ..That is them to a T...they Stop...as if in hibernation......you water you feed..they stay tip top condition..but just stare back at you..doing nothing......second veg period.

This was the bit like watching paint dry.....then they kick off again for a sprint finish.

I'm without photos..I'm on hubbys laptop..so I'm stashing them until I get a new mains cable..

But on me Kush/Dragons..I got 50% germ..5 out of 10...put all the seeds into the pot..and got 5 Males...
Never before can I Think of a grow with total male dominance...
4 of the males looked NL dominant..one looked more BD ..colour mainly.

I went to cut them down and there was a tiny..tiny female...no mopre than an inch tall...all pistilled up....

She must have been a chancer...5 stud muffins and her in an orgy pot.....Lucky Girl huh..?

Rebel said:

Sorry! I'll do a germ test tonight... They have been stored properly...

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Ah @Rebel ..the book I got with the terp info was Ed Rosenthalls....but it was a whole book...for 4 or 5 good pages of info in...
Now you can google lots....

https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabis-101/terpenes-the-flavors-of-cannabis-aromatherapy

The Nose Knows.....

Mossy said:

Ah @Rebel ..the book I got with the terp info was Ed Rosenthalls....but it was a whole book...for 4 or 5 good pages of info in...
Now you can google lots....

https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabis-101/terpenes-the-flavors-of-cannabis-aromatherapy

The Nose Knows.....

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Stoners... I dropped 2 Russians in a shot glass a few hrs ago. Sorry for the delay. Seed stock looks fantastic. I'm way optimistic. Will report back directly! Thanks for the link!!!

First girl to finish,,, hashy, incense but fruity berry,, stinky and sticky with long orange locks, she sparkles first smokes,, Uplifting,, kicks the brain in to gear, few to many and you lost, good for appetite, nausea, muscle relaxing,,

Chunky monkey, not long for this one
I can't place the smell but I know it,, it's some household cleaner or laundry, tumble dryer smell, it will come to me

WOW!!!! Wish I had more time to read through.. but ncies tuff everyone! hairyman! FD! Rockin!