Why do people care about getting good ph for water used in final flushing?

[JAB]

This goes back to my post about "bro science" that I put up a few weeks in Myth Busters. And it's not that bro science is inherently fake, false, or just not true, but it's not substantiated (and worse, can often be harmful with little rhetoric behind it,) and yet still blindly repeated over and over again because "someone told me so."

Putting skewers and screws in the stalks of your plants creates open wounds, which is like Olive Garden buffet for pests and pathogens. Wounding provides nutrients to pathogens and facilitates their entry into the tissue and subsequent infection.

Quit doing this.

Heck, I'll even take this one step further on the whole "flushing" thing before harvest by talking about senescence.

By cutting nutrients, you're basically forcing stress-induced senescence in the plant (senescence is the aging process of plants,) whereas letting them naturally die, you're speeding up that process.

Some growers think there's benefits to this because senescence causes chlorophyll to break down while the plant is still living, whiiiiiiiiiiich is in fact true.

BUT, perhaps is only a "pick-and-choose" part of the explanation.

There are three major reasons why leaf senescence is a crucial trait.

First, a leaf is an organ where carbohydrates, many nutrients and some novel compounds are synthesized. It is the major source for grain filling in crop such as barley, wheat and rice, which is especially true for flag leaves. The photosynthetic longevity of leaves is thus a major determinant of crop yield and biomass accumulation.

For example, premature senescence of photosynthetic leaves in soybean induced by abiotic stresses caused a loss of productivity due to a decrease in assimilatory capacity [3].

Another example is hybrid maize; analyses of over 50 years (1930–1980) of hybrid maize data in the USA and nearly 30 years (1959–1988) of maize hybrid yields in Ontario, Canada, found that the late onset of leaf senescence contributed to significant increases in maize yields [4,5].

Secondly, during leaf senescence, not only the green pigment chlorophyll but more importantly many nutrients such as vitamin C and proteins are quickly degraded.

Leaf senescence thus reduces the postharvest longevity of foliar vegetables and potted plants, and devalues animal feed.

Thirdly, a senescing leaf becomes more vulnerable to infection by pathogens, especially postharvest fungal pathogens, and some of the fungal pathogens may produce toxic chemicals, rendering our food and animal feed unsafe.


In summary, leaf senescence is an imperative trait that negatively impacts on crop yield and quality. With the increasingly understanding of regulatory mechanisms of leaf senescence, emerging new technologies targeting the leaf senescence trait have been, and will continue to be, developed for crop improvement.


So for whatever reason, while everyone is after "the fade," which can be quite natural in our annual cannabis plants, but when you're FORCING IT, you're likely doing more damage than good (in my humble opinion.)

Thats real advice. Thanks!

 

[PeaceLove&Buds]

Any houses for sale in your neighborhood Hobbes? I wanna be your neighbor

 

[Death The Cultivator]

@CannaDaTaBiz

For starters, give this a read through:

Flushing: The Myth that won't Die

Of all the garden myths that exist, I hate this one the most! I'll do my best to drive nails in its coffin, once and for all! So first, I'm going to give you a little information, then, DO your homework! This can't be answered in a paragraph, you need to get some in depth information. I'm...

www.autoflower.org

We've literally been discussing the fallacies of flushing for nearly 6 years on this forum. Whether you agree, disagree, on the fence, etc, there's some great answers, links, and perspectives from all around the globe.

You seem to be pushing back on any opinions, advice, or guidance on this topic, yet you don't seem to have any real grasp of it yourself (and I say that respectfully.) If you're perceiving your fellow growers as hostile; I think they are feeling the same thing from you about your willingness to even discuss the topic. Just some friendly advice, approach tends to breed the response



For starters you're arguing two different types of flushing.

Flushing to fix problems with your medium is Animal A (which, again this is still the act of running water through the pot to leach out water soluble nutrients in the medium.)

Flushing at harvest because you think it's removing things from the plant is Animal B (which in reality, it's still leaching water soluble nutrients from the medium.)

As to growers overfeeding plants; that is a common issue, but again you'd point to "Animal A" to help correct that (and by correct, I mean you're trying to correct the issues in your medium, which in turns help correct things with the plant. You're not flushing anything out of the plant, burn damage is damage done.)

Many growers also start their nutrient regiments (especially if it's new to them or the grow) at 1/4 to 1/2 strength of normal recommendations. This helps you see how the plants react. Just like you wouldn't cram a t-bone steak down a babies throat, the nutrient requirements for seedlings and establishing plants is generally less than something already in the full swing.



Then follow the status quo that growers blindly accepted for decades with absolutely little science to substantiate the claims. If you're not open to the idea that harvest flushing may not in fact do the thing what growers generally accepted it as so to do, then why try to reinvent the wheel?

Flush with pH'd water , case closed (though not scientifically proven.) It's literally that simple.

Again, I will refer you to agricultural leaching:

"In agricultural ecosystems, leaching is an important balance between preventing salt accumulation and removing nutrients from soil. Without proper amounts of water to leach these salts (known as the leaching fraction) from the upper soil horizons, the growth of the plants can be slightly to severely impacted. The impact depends on the salt tolerance of the plant and the type of salts accumulating in the soil."



By that same slippery slope logic, should we here not all reserve that same right to question someone who questions everything?



If that's the case then, then this was already answered. If you want the plants to use the nutrients already in the soil, you still pH the water because that's the OPTIMAL RANGE of solubility of those nutrients in the medium. You've cut the nutrients, now you're just giving the medium the pH'd water it needs for whatever is remaining to be uptaken. You're not flushing the plant, you're flushing the medium (Animal A,) which still requires moving a volume of water through the medium itself.

Boomsies! *mic drop*



Because many growers have been down this path before your existential questions about cultivation ever existed. Not everything that happens with plants is brand new territory, much of this is territory already traveled. And that doesn't mean we shouldn't still discuss and have conversations, that's why places like this forum exist. But hammering on the same note isn't much of a song.



Because there is no discernible difference. And science seems to back that more than not. I say this respectfully, have you even looked at any of these flushing trials or rhetoric?



Again, there is very little science that backs this up. Can YOU explain this?

The idea behind crop steering the plants isn't that you just stress it with anything. It's the idea that you intentionally introduce specific types of stress at specific times in order to try to produce a desired response.

If any/all stress made the plants more potent, then all new growers on the planet would have the most fuego weed in existence (as they overfeed their plants and improperly pH their water wink wink lol.)

Why are we repeating each other? We could be passing the blunt right about now

 

[MIAutomatic]

Why are we repeating each other? We could be passing the blunt right about now

I missed 420 today checking up on this silly argument , better go get caught up……

 

[Son of Hobbes]

Why are we repeating each other? We could be passing the blunt right about now

Ever read "A Planet Called Treason?" It's about this guy named Lanik Mueller who is a radical regenerative, and something happens where one of his body parts regenerates into a full replica of him, but evil.

Or like... Evil Dead Army of Darkness. That's probably an easier reference.

Anyway you may be my evil twin. Or maybe I'm the evil twin.

Do you ever look in the mirror and say "man, I kind of look like Fat Thor from Avengers End Game?"

 

[Son of Hobbes]

"man, I kind of look like Fat Thor from Avengers End Game?"

He didn't say anything, but he thumbs up the post. Evil Fat Thor, now I know you exist.

 

[Jpkindbud]

My opinion, (which matters not) is no flush! If the person arguing with everyone is questioning the answers given by professional growers (son of Hobbes) then I say… start a thread! Try it for yourself! Do a side by side with some clones from the same mother. Control set will be fed normally and water ph’d optimally. The others…? Stress them and flush and whatever you want with them. Then do an honest side by side comparison and post your findings on here for all to see. I believe @Son of Hobbes when he tells us he has done it. But some (not pointing fingers) can’t or won’t believe even though someone has already been down that road. Same as my 19 yr old twins… I tell them “ avoid that” or “dangerous” or “it’s gonna turn out bad”! Do they listen? NOPE! Gotta do it and find out for themselves. I know, you’ll ruin plants and yields, but at least you’ll know at the end and not rely on someone telling you… even though they’ve done it and tell you not to.

 

[MIAutomatic]

My opinion, (which matters not) is no flush! If the person arguing with everyone is questioning the answers given by professional growers (son of Hobbes) then I say… start a thread! Try it for yourself! Do a side by side with some clones from the same mother. Control set will be fed normally and water ph’d optimally. The others…? Stress them and flush and whatever you want with them. Then do an honest side by side comparison and post your findings on here for all to see. I believe @Son of Hobbes when he tells us he has done it. But some (not pointing fingers) can’t or won’t believe even though someone has already been down that road. Same as my 19 yr old twins… I tell them “ avoid that” or “dangerous” or “it’s gonna turn out bad”! Do they listen? NOPE! Gotta do it and find out for themselves. I know, you’ll ruin plants and yields, but at least you’ll know at the end and not rely on someone telling you… even though they’ve done it and tell you not to.

This is the most amazing dad reply ever. My kids are only 6 months and 2.5 years, but hopefully I will learn this lesson well.

 

[Drownomatic]

I grow organic in soil, and don't flush.

However, if you were trying to flush soluble nutrients from soil, I would think the TDS of the water would be the most important factor.

Wouldn't zero TDS tend to leech the most due to osmosis?

 

[Jpkindbud]

This is the most amazing dad reply ever. My kids are only 6 months and 2.5 years, but hopefully I will learn this lesson well.

I wish you luck and happiness watching them grow! You’ll see in about 12-14 yrs how much they “listen” to your warnings… lol not a put down at all. Raising children is an ADVENTURE!