Why different phonotypes from same strain of same breeders seeds?

[evol]

I am not lazy or a bad breeder but Ill be releasin a few auto strains thag have tall and short phenos. I think as long as we (breeders) are honest about the strain and let people know they can get tall and short phenos then its ok. The smoke is still top quality and some strains are stabilized because it was simply easier to do so. Its not like im done working on Babushka or BITCH but imo they are good enough for release.

Sorry if Igot a little bit defensive but I kinda felt attacked as an auto breeder. Unless you breed for yourself you have no idea how much time, work, and care we put into our strains. Most professional breeders (especially the breeders here at AFN) are not just pollen chuckers.

 

[gbd]

I wish breeders were more forthcoming with their pheno variation. On my first grow I had the 120 day pheno of think different. I didn't know about phenos then, followed Seymour Buds feed schedule and couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong or why it was taking so long for my buds to form. I was also anticipating a time frame of around 80 days and had planted with time to harvest, dry, and cure for a week or two before I went on vacation. If Dutch Passion had pheno info readily available I could've been saved a lot of headaches. In hindsight it was a great learning experience and motivated me to find out more about genetics, but at the time it felt like I just could not get it right.

 

[F.N.]

I had two phenos of TD but hard to tell the difference but there none the less. Magnum the five I had were all the same pheno I know only five but still all the same. Autos have come along way since the first lowryders came on the scene. I tried one pak there first year what a joke they were. Now all I want is autos bring on some different phenos. The key to growing auto's is growing enough of them outdoors 200 or so then as we say in Canada Bobs yer uncle

 

[Heavily Medicated]

I agree that having the breeders give some factual information about what you can expect phenotypically from that lot of seed would be very beneficial. Especially if setting up a multiplant SCROG. Also, with the price of autoflower seeds, I would think the breeders would have no problem investing in what is needed, time and equipment, to give the customer what they are looking for. At 10-20 a pop for 1 good quality fem seed, profitability should be built in. With street weed costing up to 60 per 1/8, if a seed price increase was needed to cover expenses, It is still much cheaper to buy the seed and grow much better quality.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

I am not lazy or a bad breeder but Ill be releasin a few auto strains thag have tall and short phenos. I think as long as we (breeders) are honest about the strain and let people know they can get tall and short phenos then its ok. The smoke is still top quality and some strains are stabilized because it was simply easier to do so. Its not like im done working on Babushka or BITCH but imo they are good enough for release.

Sorry if Igot a little bit defensive but I kinda felt attacked as an auto breeder. Unless you breed for yourself you have no idea how much time, work, and care we put into our strains. Most professional breeders (especially the breeders here at AFN) are not just pollen chuckers.

Hey, not knocking you man, or any breeders here at AFN for that matter. I agree that some strains might be still desirable with a couple phenos. I just think that should be made clear and not kept secret in an attempt to prevent people from being able to make their own fem seeds of the same strain without getting several different crappy phenos mixed in.

i think one of the main problems is that cannabis is still widely illegal, so there aren't as many public standards for quality control and labeling. A person can just cross some stuff in their basement and sell them as whatever, and because you can't complaint too publicly if the product doesn't turn out well, they get away with spreading bad genetics for a while until people get the word around. And still, beginners fall for the trap of nice website layouts and fancy strain names.

 

[evol]

Agreed. Some bad breeders can give us good ones a bad name. Some breeders want the work they do protected because they did put alot of time and money into the strain. Thats why we do grow journals/reports and smoke reports though. Yes some people may get "ripped off" because of a shadey breeder but their are enough reviews imo to weed out the bad and let the truely good breeders shine.
Every industry has people trying to scam and just make money. Why would the seed business be any different?


Most people that grow autoflowers do it for their medicinal needs. It is always wise to do research on the meds you want/need to grow. If you do the research you should never be dissappointed.

 

[Waira]

HeavilyMed'-- :thumbs: As you see, this is a complex, mutlifaceted question,...and the good folks here have touched on many of them... I guess it all starts with the fact that individual seeds are much the same as brothers and sisters,... there will be a general consistency to inherited traits, but every bean is still a genetic mix of all their, more or less, immediate ancestors,... A lot goes on with the genome during the genetic shuffle that sorts out what goes into a seed...the way chromosomes cross over (swap potions of themselves with other chromosomes) and how they become separated and paired up again is part of the magic, -the key- to producing genetic diversity,... and also, consider that genetic's are not just about what gets literally passed down, but what gets expressed too,... many many genes can be carried from generation to generation, but that doesn't mean a given gene will be necessarily expressed (or not expressed)... many other factors can influence what gets switched on/off,... so as you can imagine, the layers of complexity quickly become deep and tangled! :Woozy..?: :stoneslap:- LOL!- small wonder that there's some "drift" along the phenotypic expression, and on occasion, major drifts from a general population norm'.... outliers, mate, statistically speaking!

 

[Anthropolis]

Another thing to think about is that Cannabis is an extremely varied plant compared to most common plants. You see a pine tree, it'll look and be like about any other pine tree. How many different pine trees could we have in North America, maybe 5 or 10 lol. But Leafly claims having recorded some 4000 Cannabis varieties. Among nature, science, and statistics, we have what's called the "bell curve", whereby most things fall in the middle but there are outliers at both ends. Eliminating the outliers over generations makes a strain appear more stable, but that takes lots of time and work Nature does it with ease, because it has the benefits of thousands of years and various natural selection resources. Humans have to do all this artificially under much less time. Most of the great old strains took 30 years to make! It's just simply impossible to expect or to hope that a new strain that's been around for a year is going to be perfectly uniform. There's going to be outliers, and that's okay, those can be fun I'm certainly an outlier lol, and I can be rather fun haha!

 

[Heavily Medicated]

Thanks everyone for one great discussion on a subject I'm sure many auto newbies where also wondering. This all takes me back eons ago to college genetics class. Only remember something called a chi square and some guy breeding peas. I'm sure it won't be long before pure strains are the norm. I too like a little surprise once in a while, they can be learning experiences.

 

[Muddy]

I wish breeders were more forthcoming with their pheno variation. On my first grow I had the 120 day pheno of think different. I didn't know about phenos then, followed Seymour Buds feed schedule and couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong or why it was taking so long for my buds to form. I was also anticipating a time frame of around 80 days and had planted with time to harvest, dry, and cure for a week or two before I went on vacation. If Dutch Passion had pheno info readily available I could've been saved a lot of headaches. In hindsight it was a great learning experience and motivated me to find out more about genetics, but at the time it felt like I just could not get it right.

They cover themselves by giving a size range on their plants. I'm sure you've seen it. DP lists Think Different at 1 - 1.5 meters. Not much information so we're left to assume that there will be different phenos of different sizes. I agree, more information would be very helpful. At the very least they could say to expect X number of phenos, and give a time frame on how long each pheno will take to finish. It would certainly help in making more informed decisions on what to buy. Personally, I don't have room for large phenos, so tend to stay with what I know are dwarf strains as they fit my area the best. Often I will by pass a given strain simply because I don't know how big it will get.