What Causes This..Help Wanted

[Heavily Medicated]

WOS NLXBB Day 79
It seems like every grow I run into this at the earlier part of late flower. It doesn't seem to hurt that much this late in the game, I would love to figure out what is causing it and fix it. I grow in promix with added perilite. I use Advanced Nutrients Jungle Juice two part base nutes and for sups I use Voodoo, Piranha, B52, Carboload, Rhino Skin, Big Bud, Overdrive. I use GH CalMagic and FloroKleen. My medium pH is 6.6 via A8. I feed at 6.3 pH. This starts on the tips of the buds on the main branches and slowly progresses to the lower buds. Bud leaves are just frying, starts around the margins and quickly moves in. Old leaves are not affected at all, only new growth. I usually start using just water when this shows up and it will continue on just RO water as she finishes up. Anybody have any ideas on what's going on here?

 

[Waira]

HM buddy, what's up? ....let's see, from what you describe, symptoms starting at the very tops and moving down, it's gotta be an immobile elemental nute,... you say it happens consistently,...on the same nutrients and feed regime? That might be an important clue here,... Hmmm, the only thing that really fits is B defc., very rare! This might the first case I've seen, in fact, and I'm anything but certain,... Of those AN products, I don't think any of them is a micronutrient supplement, right? That's the best thing to try, and see if it can be halted,... Earth Juice Microblast is a good one, very specific product,... Botanicare CalMag Plus is another, which is a sort of all-in-one product, tons of other good stuff in it,....uhhh,.. brainfarting on others,... other options-- well, go here, and read up on B defc.: ( https://www.autoflower.org/threads/self-diagnose-your-plants-basic-deficiencies-list.11/ )... the eye wash stuff might be the ticket, as it's in solution already,... I'll ask farmer Oldster here too, as I know he has experience with Borax as a supp',....

 

[oldster]

Hi @Waira and @Heavily Medicated, how's it going

I do give my plants borax from time to time, it is highly soluble so uptake should be fine; I have never tried it as a foliar spray so can't comment on that method.

I use Twenty Mule Team Borax, find it with the laundry detergents. Make sure it is borax and not washing soda which is normally close by. I would try 1 teaspoon per gallon (1/4 teaspoon per liter)

Eye wash is boric acid, might work but have never used.

 

[JayRock99]

Those leaves edges look awful saw like. Whats your temps at? And also the dead leaves look like a P lockout mate.
Please remember LESS is more, if your in doubt. I recommend running the same strain a few times to "learn" what she likes. Good luck.

 

[Heavily Medicated]

HM buddy, what's up? ....let's see, from what you describe, symptoms starting at the very tops and moving down, it's gotta be an immobile elemental nute,... you say it happens consistently,...on the same nutrients and feed regime? That might be an important clue here,... Hmmm, the only thing that really fits is B defc., very rare! This might the first case I've seen, in fact, and I'm anything but certain,... Of those AN products, I don't think any of them is a micronutrient supplement, right? That's the best thing to try, and see if it can be halted,... Earth Juice Microblast is a good one, very specific product,... Botanicare CalMag Plus is another, which is a sort of all-in-one product, tons of other good stuff in it,....uhhh,.. brainfarting on others,... other options-- well, go here, and read up on B defc.: ( https://www.autoflower.org/threads/self-diagnose-your-plants-basic-deficiencies-list.11/ )... the eye wash stuff might be the ticket, as it's in solution already,... I'll ask farmer Oldster here too, as I know he has experience with Borax as a supp',....

@Waira thanks for the reply, I too was wondering about the AN Jungle juice 2 part. I noticed that most everyone else uses the 3 part linesw which includes a specific "Micro" as the third part. I guess I just always figured that there must be micros already mixed into the 2 part. Honestly I went with the 2 part just for the convenience. No, non of the sups are micros specificly. I too, after much research came to the conclusion of B deficiency, but literature always stated it to be very rare. I'm going to give the borax a try. I gave straight water this AM, and when I came home from work there was very noticeable spread of the necrosis.

Hi @Waira and @Heavily Medicated, how's it going

I do give my plants borax from time to time, it is highly soluble so uptake should be fine; I have never tried it as a foliar spray so can't comment on that method.

I use Twenty Mule Team Borax, find it with the laundry detergents. Make sure it is borax and not washing soda which is normally close by. I would try 1 teaspoon per gallon (1/4 teaspoon per liter)

Eye wash is boric acid, might work but have never used.

@oldster thanks for the info. I am heading to the mart in the AM and looking for the borax. Hopes this helps as she is a real beauty and I hate to watch her decline right at the end.

Those leaves edges look awful saw like. Whats your temps at? And also the dead leaves look like a P lockout mate.
Please remember LESS is more, if your in doubt. I recommend running the same strain a few times to "learn" what she likes. Good luck.

@JayRock99 The temps have been high 70's lights on, and down to low 60's lights out. If I was getting P lockout due to low temps, would it be effecting just the newer growth? I do use PK sups Big Bud and Overdrive. I can increase temps pretty easily, my tent is always about 15 degrees warmer than my ambient room temp. I have been keeping the room about 63.

 

[FullDuplex]

Im gonna agree with everything that i have read here so far. First and foremost less is more, now mind you i may be old school and there are a TON of products out there that offer "amazing results" or "30-40% yield increases but at the same time do they really? To me its like all the shit on the market for body building and lifting. If you walk into a supplement store there are a thousand products that all claim the exact same thing. Just like nutes and ferts there are a ton of them out there. Just have to use them in moderation and not over do it. If i use a high caffeine pre-workout and then drink a redbull im fucked. Jitters, sweats, and all the other good shit. Your plants are the same, over feed them and they are gonna shit the bed mate.

You said that this happens all the time, the exact missing link i am not certain of, but i see a lot of different carnage to the leaf there. Take it easy with all that stuff that you have there. make sure that you monitor the PPM and pH and i am certain that you may know that already do that but sometimes i like to beat a dead horse. Be sure that you are not getting any salt build ups, because to me this reeks of salt build up and maybe just maybe a lock out.

Think about it for a min, this isnt happening until late in flower. I dont know the whole details of your grows but over time if you are using all that for a grow there could be some build up forming, especially if you are planting in the final pot. I rarely used anything more than a fert that had three basics of NPP none of the other stuff.

 

[FullDuplex]

I forgot to mention something take a look at the pot when you are done, not the smoking kind but the container. See if there is any trace of a white film or white residue on the inside of the container where the soil was. If thats there its build up

 

[Heavily Medicated]

Im gonna agree with everything that i have read here so far. First and foremost less is more, now mind you i may be old school and there are a TON of products out there that offer "amazing results" or "30-40% yield increases but at the same time do they really? To me its like all the shit on the market for body building and lifting. If you walk into a supplement store there are a thousand products that all claim the exact same thing. Just like nutes and ferts there are a ton of them out there. Just have to use them in moderation and not over do it. If i use a high caffeine pre-workout and then drink a redbull im fucked. Jitters, sweats, and all the other good shit. Your plants are the same, over feed them and they are gonna shit the bed mate.

You said that this happens all the time, the exact missing link i am not certain of, but i see a lot of different carnage to the leaf there. Take it easy with all that stuff that you have there. make sure that you monitor the PPM and pH and i am certain that you may know that already do that but sometimes i like to beat a dead horse. Be sure that you are not getting any salt build ups, because to me this reeks of salt build up and maybe just maybe a lock out.

Think about it for a min, this isnt happening until late in flower. I dont know the whole details of your grows but over time if you are using all that for a grow there could be some build up forming, especially if you are planting in the final pot. I rarely used anything more than a fert that had three basics of NPP none of the other stuff.

@FullDuplex If I had a salt buildup, would not the pH of the medium be dropping like a rock, or can you have salt toxicity and still have good pH? I usually let 10-20 percent go through as runoff.

 

[Waira]

..good to know you ground out the same most likely suspect! I might have a fresh pic of B defc. to bring to the diagnostic pic depot here- .... yeah, I thought about P defc. too, but because it's mobile in the plant, it doesn't hit up that high unless really severe and advanced,... I've seen it hit mid to upper-mid's first, drawing on the closer leaves vs. the lowers (like in N and often, Mg), I'm guessing for efficiency's' sake, since translocating it from established tissues to needy areas costs metabolic energy,.... good point about the temp's, but I think those cool temps would have to be sustained constantly, or nearly so, to cause that type defc.,... she spends most of her hours in mid 70's you say?... that said, I'd up the light hour temps a few degrees, and keep the dark hours temp' above 65F,... though, the cool temps might bring you some nice color! :smoking:

>> Brother FD! great to see you about, mate,....thank you for chiming in on this as well, it makes me more comfortable about my diagnosis! I worry, because the very last thing I'd want is to FUBAR somebodies plant - ... really, I just threw a dart at a spinning wheel of named deficiencies,...

 

[Heavily Medicated]

I'm leaning more toward a deficiency because switching to straight RO water made things noticeably worse in just one day. If it was too much of something, I would think the straight water would have helped, not speed up damage. I'm pretty sold on the AN line I use, two of the sups are soil builders, one is a B vitamin, two are PK boosters, one is a carbohydrate, and one is silica. I follow the AN nutrient chart at 1/2 listed amount. I've had great results, just this little problem at the end.