Week 4 of flower issues - CBD strain

[BII]

Flushing....I listened to a fascinating podcast with a cannabis researcher and consultant that says “flushing” your plant to eliminate bottled nutrients is a a waste of time and is just ‘bro science.’ I’ll post a link below. I can’t remember where she talks about it but the whole interview is fascinating! Makes sense too. I mean, think about it...plant biology has no mechanism to facilitate any “flushing” action. If something is inside the plant, it’s not leaving because you add a bunch of water. I’m no scientist and I’m probably saying it wrong so I’ll just refer you to her explanation, which really makes sense. Maybe something else is occurring when we do a “flush” but it’s not actually removing bottled nutrients from the plant. Just thought I’d share that.

Yes, "Flushing your plant to eliminate bottled nutrients" works to wash-out soluble nutrients from the medium/soil, not from the plant. Other than if the plant is being starved/not fed nutrients (which many people do at the end), the nutrient concentrations in the healthy plant will remain rather constant.

 

[DTOM420]

:smoking: Hey Tom! I see the margin teeth showing necrosis,... mild nutes (I like HPK) and inputs so no way this is burn from organics, more likely K defc, but hold on for that a sec,..... soil pH is hard to verify now by slurry unless you wanted to dig up soil from about mid-level...... I recall the issue with your A8, figured you'd send it back? Did you ever retest the Roots soil slurry? Further digging on slurry tests, I see some use 1:1 soil/water, other 1:2,... I believe 1:1 is closer to what the roots experience because 1:2 is diluting quite a bit more which will alter pH.... You can always get an inexpensive dropper test kit like the ones used for aquariums to confirm what you pH meter says about the slurry pH.... pH meter still checks out too right?
I see no info about your T and RH%, basically the VPD is what I want a feel for,... is there high T, low RH%, lots of air movement? This type of tip/margin burn looks more like an transpiration issue, sometimes if some or all these things are off, the plant is really having to haul up the water, and with it come the nutes; boderline VPD can cause something of a localized nute build-up, and at the "teeth" there are larger than usual "pipes" leading out to the edges,.. accumulation of unused nutes, like K, can start such browning/spotting.... It's not Ca defc. either way, but keep on that with the RO water use...
...micronute input is too low mate, weekly at least,... I see some early signs of possible Zn on the pale tops, and/or these are too close to the lights.... I say that because I think i see some edge/teeth up-curling on them? get me that T and RH% info please....

Hey brother!!

I figured out the discrepancy between my slurry test and the A8 - I top dressed a while back with some oyster shell flour and bat guano. When I started to dig for the soil sample, I hit roots immediately and didn’t want to create too much disruption. So, my sample probably gathered something different than what’s mid-pot or bottom pot. So, I am just hoping the A8 IS correct and went with STILLSMOKIN’s suggestion and watered with the 7.4 that it comes out of my RO at.

The company that makes those A8 probes wasn’t interested in helping me out. Lol. So, I’ll have to get another one to compare it to; and I haven’t had the funds.

Temps are pretty constant between 72° and 80° with humidity between 48% and 55%. There is some air movement but it’s gentle. The exhaust fan is down pretty low as well. There’s a light negative pressure in the tent as I don’t have input fan and fresh air is sucked in through the bottom vents. I did a big defoliate yesterday because I’d see an occasional puddle of water on a leaf where another leaf was resting on top of. She was a serious shrub! Lol! Looked way better when I was done. Basically, I just removed the oldest, large fans and some interior and lower branching that would never produce much. I don’t think conditions are bad. Not perfect, but not bad. She was more than 2 feet from the lights and I had not noticed the leaf margins curling up but, once you mentioned it, I checked and sure enough - some of the older fan leaves ARE curling a little along the brown edges. But that was occurring on leaves that were a good 3 feet below the light as well as those around 2 feet below. Hard to image it’s too much light from a 600w LED that I’m running around 85%-90%

You may be right about this being an environmental issue but I can’t see where the problem is. The browning of leaf margins (making me think K def) seems to be an issue that I deal with on all my plants; along with burned tips. Ugh. Wish I could figure out why I regularly seem to have soil pH drop when I’m in flower. The next round I start will be an all organic soil I built that has been curing almost 2 months now. Maybe things will change but I worry that something I’m doing is causing this regular occurrence of soil pH going low. Could it be caused by the pH down I have to use because my water is so alkaline (7.7ish)? I switched to Apple Cider Vinegar, thinking that’s organic and wouldn’t build up. But I still had this plant go to a low pH.

I gave her CalMag, MicroBlast and Mammoth P yesterday. The MicroBlast says every 2 weeks or something. So, I didn’t think I could feed it weekly. How often have you found it can be applied in soil?

P.S. I’ve got another problem girl as well but I’ll start another thread for her. Lol. I’m always a mess.

 

[DTOM420]

Yes, "Flushing your plant to eliminate bottled nutrients" works to wash-out soluble nutrients from the medium/soil, not from the plant. Other than if the plant is being starved/not fed nutrients (which many people do at the end), the nutrient concentrations in the healthy plant will remain rather constant.

Sure, that’s no doubt. It’s just that many people think they are flushing their plant. As if flushing will change the plant and make it better or change it. There are lots of people that have the impression that their plant uptakes the contents of those bottles and those contents can be removed by flushing before harvest. That was the point she was making. Did you listen to the interview?

 

[Waira]

What a bunch of dicks! Was it Control Wizard products directly? ...well no matter, that may be the problem,.. again, I say try it with soil right outta the bag, both slurry and A8 and see,....
Bat poops is usually very low K, so that follows with the suspected K defc.; oyster shell is pretty active stuff, unlike dolomite which has different chemistry construction which makes it slower acting... And K is pretty hard to lock out by pH, it has to be WTF off typically... more common is induced defc. by excess of other cation nutes....

>>> T and RH% and air movement are OK, not a VPD issue happening here,... Any light related curling will be indeed only on the tops, but other things can cause the curls, usually a defc. or just simple senescence,...
pH changes during bloom are typical mate, depending on the water source it may go up (hard water, I get this) or down (soft/low ppm),... but as nutes, especially cation nutes are taken up, the charge exchange mandates that a proton = H+ goes out,... I have had some pots just dive into acidity during bloom, when others were just damn fine, so there's that "little eco-world" in each pot thing for you!... You are using the RO water right? Odd that it's that alkaline, but then you still have about 10-20ppm after filtering anyway? that could explain it,.. does it go down after sitting out for a day? CO2 should acidify it as it dissolves back into the water... If you have acidic pots, then don't use the pH down....
Vinegar is OK, not heavy duty like phosphoric acid,.. I use citric acid, used in canning so it's readily available and also milder,.... down side is they don't hold as well, but that's not your issue here,.... The Microblast I put in weekly as mentioned, no worries there! .... what do you have for nutes that's K heavy?

 

[AutoLowRyder]

You are using the RO water right? Odd that it's that alkaline, but then you still have about 10-20ppm after filtering anyway?

In hard water area's, Anion dominant water, containing CaCo3 temporary alkalinity, (Calcium carbonate). Can block an RO (Primary), ro membrane, as well as the cintered carbon pre filter, which can by pass to the ro membrane itself, when this happens, various antagonistic micro nutrient, & trace elements, in symbiosis, can occur, including, but not restricted to, forming arsenic 111....

Which is toxic to all jointed limned mammals, at a level similar to NO2, 'Nitrite", (ppm 0.15) which can also be formed, in hard water area's, when a filter is left blocked, (And Standing Stale For Weeks On End ("Summer" Temps)) on high back pressure, through over use. Example, 30cm x 5cm ro membrane can clean to Ec0.02 around 250gal, before the Ec starts to rise. When it hits Ec0.5, that is well blocked........ membrane full of salts trace elements chlorine, and sediment..........

DTOM420's 20ppm water measured straight from the RO output, @20ppm is 400 x 0.05............ so that RO membrane is well toxic in it's output........ before i started using UV flow tube sterilized, rainwater, i used RO buffered to 250ppm with (Alkali) Anions.............. to stabilize Ph, during re gassing with 02 co2........ i changed my membrane every time i hit Ec0.05 as tested straight from RO output......

Common Failures - The following table identifies a number of the most common failures affecting reverse osmosis systems, thier effects and recommended monitoring practices.

Failure
Effect
Recommended Monitoring Practice
Antiscalant Scale formation on membranes, usually in the back-end stages – high salt passage, Pressure difference in final stage. Check dosing equipment and monitor changes in water quality.
Ineffective sanitization procedures Bio-fouled pipe-work, cartridge filters and membranes - high Pressure difference. Sanitize sand filters and GAC filters. Microbiological analysis, chlorine dosing, contamination in chemical dosing tanks.
High iron content Iron loading on cartridge filters. Iron fouling of membranes – high Pressure difference, low permeate flow. Pipe-work corrosion, ferric breakthrough from media beds, failure of media filters.
High organic content Humic substances and organic fouling on membrane – low permeate flow, high feed Pressure Feed water composition, review flocculation procedures, feed watercolor, TOC.
Colloidal breakthrough Colloidal particles foul micron filters and membranes – high Pressure difference, low permeate flow. Silt Density Index (SDI), condition of cartridge filters, eliminate media fines.
Granular activated carbon filters Carbon fines foul micro filters and membranes. Check washing procedure to remove fines from GAC filters.
Overdosing of coagulant Cationic coagulant fouls membrane – low permeate flow, high feed Pressure. Check dosing levels and detect excess traces.
Overdosing of chlorine Membrane damage – high salt passage and increased flux. Dosing equipment, Redox meters, bisulfite dosing levels and positioning of dosing point, chlorine test kit.
Permeate tube “O” ring failure High salt passage. Check individual pressure vessel conductivity, probe suspect PV’s to check individual membrane product conductivity.
Ineffective biocide High bacterial / fungal counts in water samples. Biofouling of membranes – high Pressure difference. Biocide adsorption on GAC, check contact times and dose rate, select broad-spectrum biocide, Select biocide for organic content.
Sand / Multi-media filter breakthrough Colloidal and bacterial fouling of micron filters and membranes. Check wash procedures to remove fines.
Acid dosing Scale formation – CaCO3 only. pH monitor / controller.
Seasonal algae blooms (sea water) High microbiological loading, biofilm, severe cartridge filter fouling. Microbiological counts in water samples, evidence of biofilms, check algae counts.
Poor performance on start up after shutdown Fouling / scaling of membranes. Check membrane flush procedures on shut down and preservation procedures on extended shutdown.

does it go down after sitting out for a day? CO2 should acidify it as it dissolves back into the water.

As the gasses diffuse back into the RO pure water, during aeration, (See Pie Chart below), using 2 bar, (MBCd) micro bubble ceramic diffused aerators. Under back pressure, nitrogen and co2 can form nitrogen oxide. Nitrogen dioxide is an acidic oxide. The reaction with water is 2NO2 + H2O. = HNO3 + HNO2 The extra oxygen is needed as HNO2 is unstable and it oxidises to nitric acid. Plants can use both ammonium and nitrate as nitrogen sources, and it will also take in some Urea. However,

Nitrate is the most common form of nitrogen a plant takes in because ammonium is positively charged and is
therefore retained in soils by sticking to the negatively charged clay particles.Nitrate NO3, has no such affinity for clay as it is also negatively charged and is therefore repelled by clay particles. Nitrate then stays in solution more, which is why a plant mainly uses this form of nitrogen, and why it can be so easily leached out of soils we use. Contents of air we pump into RO....(See Chart below).......... oxygen is Anion, Co2 cation, which is dominant below ??....... not co2 right ??.......

Of all the major fertilizer nutrients, nitrogen is the main nutrient affecting soil pH, and soils can become more acidic or more alkaline depending on the "type" of nitrogen fertilizer used, Nitrate No3 is best, urea next.

not heavy duty like phosphoric acid,.. I use citric acid,

You should really use a Ph down, that syncs with the period of the grow, Nitric acid NHO3, is best for the veg period, and also 2wks into flower, to help maintain the forming flower (Fruit) frames. During the last 5wks of flower of a 100 day grow, before the 10 day pure RO flush@Ph7.5............ use PO4, phosphoric acid, HP3O4, (Last 5wks Of Fruitification), to Ph down your "Alkaline Tap Water" used to buffer the RO, to 250-300ppm, before aeration (Re-Gassing) RO begins.......

Remember if you leave water standing, a process called 'Nitrification" will start, and convert all amino acids, and macro nutrients to nitrite, then "Nitrate" NO3, liquid nitrogen fertilizer !!! Hope thats of help wairra my man. ALR (A Dutch Passion Culture Master).............. "Masters At Work" etc..........

Ph to nute availability Anions vs Cations = Nitrogen widest band available (ALR)

Addendum;
Remember; Allway's feed "Sativa's" in the morning, "Indica" in the evening........ as the latter, like to be fed when sugar is down, the other (The medical), on the sugar "UP" morning, ie ATP manufacture. When photosystem 1 (P700 Reaction centre) 'a'bsorbs light, an electron is excited to a higher energy level in the P700 chlorophyll, thylakoid stacks (Below). The resulting P700 with excited electron is designated P700*, and is the strongest biological reducing agent (in contrast to P680+ of photosystem II, the strongest biological oxidizing agent). It has an estimated -1.2V of redox potential.

 

[DTOM420]

What a bunch of dicks! Was it Control Wizard products directly? ...well no matter, that may be the problem,.. again, I say try it with soil right outta the bag, both slurry and A8 and see,....
Bat poops is usually very low K, so that follows with the suspected K defc.; oyster shell is pretty active stuff, unlike dolomite which has different chemistry construction which makes it slower acting... And K is pretty hard to lock out by pH, it has to be WTF off typically... more common is induced defc. by excess of other cation nutes....
View attachment 1017600

>>> T and RH% and air movement are OK, not a VPD issue happening here,... Any light related curling will be indeed only on the tops, but other things can cause the curls, usually a defc. or just simple senescence,...
pH changes during bloom are typical mate, depending on the water source it may go up (hard water, I get this) or down (soft/low ppm),... but as nutes, especially cation nutes are taken up, the charge exchange mandates that a proton = H+ goes out,... I have had some pots just dive into acidity during bloom, when others were just damn fine, so there's that "little eco-world" in each pot thing for you!... You are using the RO water right? Odd that it's that alkaline, but then you still have about 10-20ppm after filtering anyway? that could explain it,.. does it go down after sitting out for a day? CO2 should acidify it as it dissolves back into the water... If you have acidic pots, then don't use the pH down....
Vinegar is OK, not heavy duty like phosphoric acid,.. I use citric acid, used in canning so it's readily available and also milder,.... down side is they don't hold as well, but that's not your issue here,.... The Microblast I put in weekly as mentioned, no worries there! .... what do you have for nutes that's K heavy?

I’ve never tried leaving the water out for a day to sit. But I just finished making a 50 gallon storage tank that the RO system keeps full. So, it’s been sitting in there for a week or so. I’ll test it here in a few minutes and I’ll put a gallon jug of it sitting in the Grow room for 24hrs and test it again. I’ll up the MicroBlast to weekly for now.

AutoLowRyder’s post is very interesting but it’s over my head. Lol!

 

[DTOM420]

In hard water area's, Anion dominant water, containing CaCo3 temporary alkalinity, (Calcium carbonate). Can block an RO (Primary), ro membrane, as well as the cintered carbon pre filter, which can by pass to the ro membrane itself, when this happens, various antagonistic micro nutrient, & trace elements, in symbiosis, can occur, including, but not restricted to, forming arsenic 111....

Which is toxic to all jointed limned mammals, at a level similar to NO2, 'Nitrite", (ppm 0.15) which can also be formed, in hard water area's, when a filter is left blocked, (And Standing Stale For Weeks On End ("Summer" Temps)) on high back pressure, through over use. Example, 30cm x 5cm ro membrane can clean to Ec0.02 around 250gal, before the Ec starts to rise. When it hits Ec0.5, that is well blocked........ membrane full of salts trace elements chlorine, and sediment..........

DTOM420's 20ppm water measured straight from the RO output, @20ppm is 400 x 0.05............ so that RO membrane is well toxic in it's output........ before i started using UV flow tube sterilized, rainwater, i used RO buffered to 250ppm with (Alkali) Anions.............. to stabilize Ph, during re gassing with 02 co2........ i changed my membrane every time i hit Ec0.05 as tested straight from RO output......

Common Failures - The following table identifies a number of the most common failures affecting reverse osmosis systems, thier effects and recommended monitoring practices.

Failure
Effect
Recommended Monitoring Practice
Antiscalant Scale formation on membranes, usually in the back-end stages – high salt passage, Pressure difference in final stage. Check dosing equipment and monitor changes in water quality.
Ineffective sanitization procedures Bio-fouled pipe-work, cartridge filters and membranes - high Pressure difference. Sanitize sand filters and GAC filters. Microbiological analysis, chlorine dosing, contamination in chemical dosing tanks.
High iron content Iron loading on cartridge filters. Iron fouling of membranes – high Pressure difference, low permeate flow. Pipe-work corrosion, ferric breakthrough from media beds, failure of media filters.
High organic content Humic substances and organic fouling on membrane – low permeate flow, high feed Pressure Feed water composition, review flocculation procedures, feed watercolor, TOC.
Colloidal breakthrough Colloidal particles foul micron filters and membranes – high Pressure difference, low permeate flow. Silt Density Index (SDI), condition of cartridge filters, eliminate media fines.
Granular activated carbon filters Carbon fines foul micro filters and membranes. Check washing procedure to remove fines from GAC filters.
Overdosing of coagulant Cationic coagulant fouls membrane – low permeate flow, high feed Pressure. Check dosing levels and detect excess traces.
Overdosing of chlorine Membrane damage – high salt passage and increased flux. Dosing equipment, Redox meters, bisulfite dosing levels and positioning of dosing point, chlorine test kit.
Permeate tube “O” ring failure High salt passage. Check individual pressure vessel conductivity, probe suspect PV’s to check individual membrane product conductivity.
Ineffective biocide High bacterial / fungal counts in water samples. Biofouling of membranes – high Pressure difference. Biocide adsorption on GAC, check contact times and dose rate, select broad-spectrum biocide, Select biocide for organic content.
Sand / Multi-media filter breakthrough Colloidal and bacterial fouling of micron filters and membranes. Check wash procedures to remove fines.
Acid dosing Scale formation – CaCO3 only. pH monitor / controller.
Seasonal algae blooms (sea water) High microbiological loading, biofilm, severe cartridge filter fouling. Microbiological counts in water samples, evidence of biofilms, check algae counts.
Poor performance on start up after shutdown Fouling / scaling of membranes. Check membrane flush procedures on shut down and preservation procedures on extended shutdown.



As the gasses diffuse back into the RO pure water, during aeration, (See Pie Chart below), using 2 bar, (MBCd) micro bubble ceramic diffused aerators. Under back pressure, nitrogen and co2 can form nitrogen oxide. Nitrogen dioxide is an acidic oxide. The reaction with water is 2NO2 + H2O. = HNO3 + HNO2 The extra oxygen is needed as HNO2 is unstable and it oxidises to nitric acid. Plants can use both ammonium and nitrate as nitrogen sources, and it will also take in some Urea. However,

Nitrate is the most common form of nitrogen a plant takes in because ammonium is positively charged and is
therefore retained in soils by sticking to the negatively charged clay particles.Nitrate NO3, has no such affinity for clay as it is also negatively charged and is therefore repelled by clay particles. Nitrate then stays in solution more, which is why a plant mainly uses this form of nitrogen, and why it can be so easily leached out of soils we use. Contents of air we pump into RO....(See Chart below).......... oxygen is Anion, Co2 cation, which is dominant below ??....... not co2 right ??.......

Of all the major fertilizer nutrients, nitrogen is the main nutrient affecting soil pH, and soils can become more acidic or more alkaline depending on the "type" of nitrogen fertilizer used, Nitrate No3 is best, urea next.
View attachment 1017969




You should really use a Ph down, that syncs with the period of the grow, Nitric acid NHO3, is best for the veg period, and also 2wks into flower, to help maintain the forming flower (Fruit) frames. During the last 5wks of flower of a 100 day grow, before the 10 day pure RO flush@Ph7.5............ use PO4, phosphoric acid, HP3O4, (Last 5wks Of Fruitification), to Ph down your "Alkaline Tap Water" used to buffer the RO, to 250-300ppm, before aeration (Re-Gassing) RO begins.......

Remember if you leave water standing, a process called 'Nitrification" will start, and convert all amino acids, and macro nutrients to nitrite, then "Nitrate" NO3, liquid nitrogen fertilizer !!! Hope thats of help wairra my man. ALR (A Dutch Passion Culture Master).............. "Masters At Work" etc..........

Ph to nute availability Anions vs Cations = Nitrogen widest band available (ALR)

Addendum;
Remember; Allway's feed "Sativa's" in the morning, "Indica" in the evening........ as the latter, like to be fed when sugar is down, the other (The medical), on the sugar "UP" morning, ie ATP manufacture. When photosystem 1 (P700 Reaction centre) 'a'bsorbs light, an electron is excited to a higher energy level in the P700 chlorophyll, thylakoid stacks (Below). The resulting P700 with excited electron is designated P700*, and is the strongest biological reducing agent (in contrast to P680+ of photosystem II, the strongest biological oxidizing agent). It has an estimated -1.2V of redox potential.

Brother, that much wisdom packed so densely just sailed right over my head! Lol! It sounds like you’re saying my RO filter isn’t working correctly? Just FYI - the reason I still have some ppm in my RO water is that the water comes out of a well at ~1025ppm, which is 2x the design capacity of the filter system. So, getting some low ppm numbers after RO, with this water, is to be expected. But, my numbers are increasing and I think I may be reaching the end of my membrane’s life span because it’s being worked so hard. I’m thinking about getting an online UV filter to put upstream of the system, when I replace the filters and membranes. My system has a sediment filter followed by a Carbon KDF filter followed by 2 RO membranes. Made by Hydro-Logic. It’s their Stealth 300gpd model.

I just tested some water directly from the unit as well as some that’s been in the holding tank for a day or two at least. Weird results.....

Direct out of RO System:
pH 8.1
PPM 164
EC us/cm 0161

Water in holding tank:
PH 7.8
PPM 94
EC us/cm 0196

Temp was 59.5°F for both samples

I’ll post results, tomorrow, of the gallon I took from the holding tank and set in the Grow room.

Maybe you could dumb down your advice so my dumb a$$ can understand? Thanks SO much for the incredible wisdom!

 

[Waira]

-- ALR, no kidding, you're one of the DP Wise Ones? ...here in "disguise"? Cheers to that mate, and Welcome! ...man I could pick your brain for days,... Thank for helping out too, this diagnosis-by-remote can be rather difficult at times, and I'm no Master grower myself, just have a lot of other plant experience and started learning trouble shooting from the original Admin here, who kindly mentored me!
I see Tom has posted already about his epically bad well water; he had major issues in 2-3 other threads earlier before he got that RO system, which never put out single digit low ppm water from day one I think,... I think you have just blown the fog away about why he's still having some odd issues!
Let me chew on this plateful one bite at a time,...
-- can you expand on this?

In hard water area's, Anion dominant water, containing CaCo3 temporary alkalinity, (Calcium carbonate). Can block an RO (Primary), ro membrane, as well as the cintered carbon pre filter, which can by pass to the ro membrane itself, when this happens, various antagonistic micro nutrient, & trace elements, in symbiosis, can occur, including, but not restricted to, forming arsenic 111....

---> are you referring to carbonate/bicarbonate as the anion here? I'm not sure I get this,.. my local tap (treated) water is notoriously hard (about 240-300ppm depending on season), and my RO unit is a small 24GPD unit (not run for more than about 5gal at a time),.. it has sediment and carbon block prefilters; this membrane has held up for 4+years now, with several sediment/carbon filter replacements along with regular back-flushing.... It gives 2-4 ppm water.... In the past, a slight rise in ppm, and my nose told me when the carbon filter was tapped out..
For Tom this plugging/bypassing of the prefilters and potential reactions on the membrane seems very likely.... we should ask him if his unit has the rigging for a proper backflushing, but then I'm not sure this would even help given how bad the incoming water is? Poor guy, is he going to need a specialized pre-pre-filter?!

As the gasses diffuse back into the RO pure water, during aeration, (See Pie Chart below), using 2 bar, (MBCd) micro bubble ceramic diffused aerators. Under back pressure, nitrogen and co2 can form nitrogen oxide. Nitrogen dioxide is an acidic oxide. The reaction with water is 2NO2 + H2O. = HNO3 + HNO2 The extra oxygen is needed as HNO2 is unstable and it oxidises to nitric acid. Plants can use both ammonium and nitrate as nitrogen sources, and it will also take in some Urea.

So, under such pressure, even triple bonded atmospheric N2 will react with CO2? ... and the end result is nitric acid, which in water dissociates instantly into H+ and NO3- right? Does it do this to a greater degree and contribute to acidity more than CO2 does? I know it's a much stronger acid than carbonic..... So, as this happens, and the dissolved solids of CaCO3 in the water reacts with the free H+, making more bicarbonate,... this is the "core" of the pH buffering reaction, right? ... I put in this diagram to help others see what this is all about-->

Remember if you leave water standing, a process called 'Nitrification" will start, and convert all amino acids, and macro nutrients to nitrite, then "Nitrate" NO3, liquid nitrogen fertilizer !!!

OK, if that's the case, why do organics/teas so strongly recommend aeration during their making? Do we not want those amino's to remain intact for other nutrient purposes?

Addendum;
Remember; Allway's feed "Sativa's" in the morning, "Indica" in the evening........ as the latter, like to be fed when sugar is down, the other (The medical), on the sugar "UP" morning, ie ATP manufacture. When photosystem 1 (P700 Reaction centre) 'a'bsorbs light, an electron is excited to a higher energy level in the P700 chlorophyll, thylakoid stacks (Below). The resulting P700 with excited electron is designated P700*, and is the strongest biological reducing agent (in contrast to P680+ of photosystem II, the strongest biological oxidizing agent). It has an estimated -1.2V of redox potential.

I'm not following this mate,... isn't the sugar level highest by days end after all that photosynthesizing?

Thank you for these insights ALR!

 

[DTOM420]

-- ALR, no kidding, you're one of the DP Wise Ones? ...here in "disguise"? Cheers to that mate, and Welcome! ...man I could pick your brain for days,... Thank for helping out too, this diagnosis-by-remote can be rather difficult at times, and I'm no Master grower myself, just have a lot of other plant experience and started learning trouble shooting from the original Admin here, who kindly mentored me!
I see Tom has posted already about his epically bad well water; he had major issues in 2-3 other threads earlier before he got that RO system, which never put out single digit low ppm water from day one I think,... I think you have just blown the fog away about why he's still having some odd issues!
Let me chew on this plateful one bite at a time,...
-- can you expand on this?

---> are you referring to carbonate/bicarbonate as the anion here? I'm not sure I get this,.. my local tap (treated) water is notoriously hard (about 240-300ppm depending on season), and my RO unit is a small 24GPD unit (not run for more than about 5gal at a time),.. it has sediment and carbon block prefilters; this membrane has held up for 4+years now, with several sediment/carbon filter replacements along with regular back-flushing.... It gives 2-4 ppm water.... In the past, a slight rise in ppm, and my nose told me when the carbon filter was tapped out..
For Tom this plugging/bypassing of the prefilters and potential reactions on the membrane seems very likely.... we should ask him if his unit has the rigging for a proper backflushing, but then I'm not sure this would even help given how bad the incoming water is? Poor guy, is he going to need a specialized pre-pre-filter?!

So, under such pressure, even triple bonded atmospheric N2 will react with CO2? ... and the end result is nitric acid, which in water dissociates instantly into H+ and NO3- right? Does it do this to a greater degree and contribute to acidity more than CO2 does? I know it's a much stronger acid than carbonic..... So, as this happens, and the dissolved solids of CaCO3 in the water reacts with the free H+, making more bicarbonate,... this is the "core" of the pH buffering reaction, right? ... I put in this diagram to help others see what this is all about-->

OK, if that's the case, why do organics/teas so strongly recommend aeration during their making? Do we not want those amino's to remain intact for other nutrient purposes?



I'm not following this mate,... isn't the sugar level highest by days end after all that photosynthesizing?

Thank you for these insights ALR!

I have NO idea what you just said, brother! Hahaha! I’m laughing to keep from crying here. Is there any hope for my garden here? I have all new filters and membranes along with a UV sterilizer (for water going into the filter system) sitting in my cart. I don’t want to hit “buy” until I get word from y’all on what to do here. I got a little unexpected bonus at work and I’m also thinking about getting a water assay done by Logan Labs. What do y’all (including @AutoLowRyder) think - would that be any help? If y’all could put things, at least the bottom line recommendations, into a bit more layman’s terms it’d sure help me out. I’m trying to figure out the chemistry but I got a C about 35 years ago so the teach could get rid of me, not because I understood a damn thing he tried to teach me. So, I’m pretty lost. Even if I can’t understand the ‘why’ or how it’s happening, if you can help me with instructions on a solution, I’d be forever grateful!

It’s not like I’m unable to grow a plant here. I mean, I’m growing some decent smoke even if it isn’t always the prettiest looking plant in the end; but I’m struggling to grow the serious dank I should be. It was never this hard in CO or Cali so it’s pretty frustrating. I sure do appreciate all the help fellers!!

 

[Waira]

fooooock, I swear your water is possessed!

.... Bro, did the system come with back flushing rigging or instructions,.. mine little unit does, you just switch the outgoing RO water line with the waste line, since the RO line has the tiny restrictor piece in it (helps create the back pressure needed to force the water through the membrane).... BUT as I mentioned above, if your incoming water is foul, I'm not sure it'll help more than hurt,.. call the company and quiz those clowns about this, you paid the $$, get some service for it too! Did they not talk about maintaining it? ...no doubt, with those ppm readings the membrane is fouled,... Of course I'm going to ask about your pH and TDS/EC meters calibrations- ...if the TDS and/or EC (? I see both) is new, it's likely fine, but they do make calibration solutions for them... pH you should have 7.0 and 4.0, plus the proper storage solution,... yes 'Tom, I think it's time for the "pro's" to check you water, raw and RO and find out WTF is going on here,...also double check that the pre-filters are not utterly clogged, mis-fitted, etc.,.... I know you're taking a beating here man, but no matter what, the well's raw water needs to be fully tested out....
That said, I'd really like to hear what @AutoLowRyder says too,.. but who knows how often he visits?