Live Stoner Chat The science of leaf pruning/defoliation?

Have you tagged @Waira in here? He's one of our resident go-to's for plant related questions, he might have some ideas on it.

I hadn’t because he’s already helping me on an issue with a plant and the man is so busy I didn’t want to add to his workload. But, since you tagged him, I’M IN!! Lol!
 
I hadn’t because he’s already helping me on an issue with a plant and the man is so busy I didn’t want to add to his workload. But, since you tagged him, I’M IN!! Lol!

Oh trust me, I'd be willing to bet he mouthed some swear words when he saw I tagged him in here :rofl:
 
How do other growers seeking high quality flowers or fruit handle defoliation (or just avoid it)? Such as those growing roses, other flowers, fruit trees, etc.?

If trees bearing fruit are relevant here, there is not much difference in the size of fruit (or buds) depending on whether branches are shaded or fully exposed to the sun. For example, aren't apples on the same tree usually all about the same size, not much bigger on the outer exposed branches? This would suggest that direct sunlight exposure (defoliation) will not increase desired bud production at the now-exposed bud sites.
 
I hadn’t because he’s already helping me on an issue with a plant and the man is so busy I didn’t want to add to his workload. But, since you tagged him, I’M IN!! Lol!

Oh trust me, I'd be willing to bet he mouthed some swear words when he saw I tagged him in here :rofl:
:cuss: :doh: :cuss: -- :laughcry: Dammit Beavis!! I'ma start chargin' $$ anymore.... :rofl:... actually, I saw this earlier, and was trying to remember where I saw some series of pics of a grow-op' that did some serious defol'ing, and did get great results,.. plants looked funny as hell, "lollipoped" too, but the bud load was looking A-OK to me,....but these folks had been dialing in their methodology for some time, and in a well optimized environment... I can't remember WhTF I saw it here, it's been a while now,... but I admit I was blown away by the end results! I've seen others do similar things, and lament it,...:eek1:
Big picture, I think it's a very conditional thing and depends a lot on just how much you remove, and at one time as well (shock/stress issues),.. some light defol' is fine, a few leaves here, a few there, won't have that significant of an impact on the plant overall, if it's otherwise healthy. I do some on my plants, mainly to when the tops become compacted and congested, which opens up better air flow (and all that helps with) and get better light into the tighter spaces,... Sometimes really squat plants that smother themselves and the lateral growth can benefit from some select leaf removal, to get them to stretch and open up more, sooner... In nature, some leaves would normally be snacked on, or lost by other means, so that's part of a plants compensation/tolerance deal,... Talk to some folks that have had deer or other vermin "prune" their plants for them- :rofl:- sometimes you get a funky bush that still grows and yields well, other times (like Vlad here this last guerilla season) they get hammered hard, grind their way back, but are much reduced in production,...
The other side of the coin: Keep in mind the leaves are the primary energy factories, CO2 uptake, water/transpiration sites, and do house most of the mobile nutrients "extra's",....so hacking away at them pell-mell is more likely to TARFU them than help! I'm no expert on this, and as mentioned, some growers find success in doing this, others don't, and there's a huge tangle of specifics and variables that play into the pro's and con's behind it.... thing risk-benefit analysis,...
For you case, some nip and tuck should see you just fine,... Personally, I do tend to leave the fans on upper colas alone, as they are local reserves for mobile nutes that come in handy late bloom; mobilizing nutes is energy costly, and they don't always tap into the lowest leaves to get them, Mama nature is smarter and more efficient than that,... That said, (RE: Q 1) taking a couple to reduce shading right below is OK,... in the second set, thos fans sticking out could be taken, but why, they don't seem to be problematic (but then I can't see the whole angles/perspective either)
Q2: nawww, it won't do harm, small losses aren't that impactful,... Now, it's smart to remove a node or two's worth of scruffy lower bud sites that won't amount to squat, more of that selective pruning thing,.. carried out to more extremes, this is the lollipopping thing, getting rid of resource wasting parts and getting more put into primary bud sites,... nobody likes larfy shit!
..Oh another side concern, I (re)learned the hard way outside this season: if you take a leaf, leave some of the petiole behind; I had some botrytis move into the main stem from the "wounds" left behind by nipping too close or yanking nearly tapped leaves off! That is a instant shit-show, as bot's will travel via the vascular system right up into new territory, doing it rotting from inside out- :cuss:.. nothing to do there but weep and cut like it's gangrene:doh:.... So leaving a bit od stem can help reduce the opening size, and the distance traveled to get to main stem tissue,.. the petiole will dry out soon too, halting potential progress,... otherwise I use a powdered Sulfur product made into a think "paint" and basted onto open surfaces to clog access and kill pathogens,.... :pause::pause::pause: ... gotta go, BBL,...
 
Oh trust me, I'd be willing to bet he mouthed some swear words when he saw I tagged him in here

ROFLMAO! You funny, brother!!

Hey, @Waira you’ll notice that I RESISTED the temptation. Well, at least I did until SOH rang the bell! Lol!

I’ve been doing a little when I feel necessary. Like on the 2 revegged indica dominant problem children you’re helping me with in my “Defficiency or Burn?” thread in the infirmary. They’re both SO dense that the leaves were just packed into a giant biomass that smothered many of the leaves on the interior. But I’m certainly not looking at stripping all the fan leaves. I’m just trying to understand what the relationship is between a fan leaf and the bud/budsite just above it?

I know the site NEEDS that leaf to erupt and that it plays a vital role in (at least) the early development of that bud. The question is, once the bud gets fairly large (let’s say around week 5 or 6) and there are plenty of other leaves including those sugar leaves, is (biologically) the fan leaf STILL the primary driver or do the other leaves take on part of that role? If they do, how much of a role does the fan leaf play from there on out?

I’ve got a feeling even your wizardly arse doesn’t know. Lol! Do you think anyone has studied this particular physiological/biological process in a cannabis plant? I would think that those sugar leaves MUST take on some role in the photosynthesis driving that bud’s growth. The plant wouldn’t make those leaves for nothing. Sure seems like there’s a reasonable chance that they take over SOME portion of what the fan leaf did in veg and early flower. No?

It sure would be nice to have a FULL understanding of exactly what is going on inside the plant when considering removing a leaf. If I knew it’s exact role at that stage in the plant’s life, I feel like I could make a MUCH better decision whether or not to take it.

Sorry to drag you over here, brother. It’s ALL @Son of Hobbes fault! *points in SOH’s direction and RUNS away!
 
Defoliation is key to bigger yields of buds and less larf. Makes trim time easier too. I prefer a bottom up defoliation and never take the fans from top two nodes.

Using these qb96elite v2’s I have to defoliate at the beginning of flower and again after the stretch (week 3)

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Same thing under the qb-120’s

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And man do they get happy after that praying to their sun gods

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This is crazy that there isnt more research done on this. Like in lab with controls and repeatable results on the effects of bud production (size/potency) in relation to removing and not removing leaves, removing just bottom leaves, etc. You would of thought this would be a thing. Lol
 
https://www.marijuanabreak.com/pruning-cannabis-plants-for-high-yield-maximize-your-buds/amp

This article mentions to never prune after flowering starts as it will release some sort of acid. Which in my case I start pruning until flowering time. I think this may be why my plants have just stalled in this pre flower stage. Ive seen this mirrored a few times and reading some the feedback in this thread. I think im going to just stick to some early pruning and than jump on with team no prune the rest of the plants life.
 
https://www.marijuanabreak.com/pruning-cannabis-plants-for-high-yield-maximize-your-buds/amp

This article mentions to never prune after flowering starts as it will release some sort of acid. Which in my case I start pruning until flowering time. I think this may be why my plants have just stalled in this pre flower stage. Ive seen this mirrored a few times and reading some the feedback in this thread. I think im going to just stick to some early pruning and than jump on with team no prune the rest of the plants life.

I get best results with a defoliation before flower, and again after the stretch. That’s how you get forearm size colas as long as you’ve created the correct plumbing underneath.

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But try the other method, it’s always good to experiment. I grew a 5 ounce plant in 3.5 quarts of Perlite. That’s 1.5 ozs per qt. Could you image that yield in a 7 gallon bag???

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This is a little off topic, but also a little on lol!!
Instead of removing the bigger leaves, pinch the stem and turn the leaf down 90 degrees! The lower areas that were shaded will now recieve more light and the fan leaf that was turned will also still receive light and turn it into usable energy for the plant! ✌✌
Would this be kind of like Supercropping a fan leaf?
 
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