Outdoor Some outdoor strain-questions.

[Mr Piggy]

I have not yet seen a plant besides a rudi based one that is 100% daylight neutral, nor do I think it's impossible for another to exist. 100% is a large statement but I'm working off of genetic theory and how dominate and recessive traits work. I'm not telling you you're wrong for not growing autos, what to sell or what to breed. Why you keep bringing that up is beyond me. A plant can finish in the same time as a daylight neutral plant outdoors or in and still not be daylight neutral. Like I said, what defines that ability is not finishing time, but the ability to flower under 24 hours of light for every day of it's life. Given the slippery and secretive nature of cannabis breeding and the fact that before the internet info sharing wasn't streamlined I would not doubt that someone could have what they think is a pure photo plant with a recessive daylight neutral gene buried generations back from a random cross that they don't know about. Cross that with a known daylight neutral plant and sure enough one of the offspring might be an odd fruit. Considering the fact you have no daylight neutral rudi strains and have never grown them I find it odd that you knock them so hard(again not telling you to grow them), especially seeing as most of the plants grown on this very site are rudi based. What can you know about something you have no experience with? Just because I was filling diapers in the 80's does not mean I'm a moron, only a poopie pants.

Now, all that aside, That guerrilla bluebonic looks fucking amazing and I can't wait to try it. Sounds like something the OP might be looking for to finish in time up there as well.

 

[JM]

Mr. Piggy, you have some good points, but I assure you, there are other strains with auto traits in them... many of them FARRR better than low ryder in many ways. And Cres, like he said, is a very experienced breeder and extremely knowledgeable... I'd stand down to his advice any day and I have been growing for 20+ years guerilla and indoor as well as veggies and all other manner of plants.
Yes... 100% at F1 is a hell of a statment... but its possible I think if the right genetics came together... for example.. one of cres's light sensitive strains crossed to just about anything auto would possibly yield those results.

just my

 

[Mr Piggy]

I still don't understand how light sensitive and DN would combine in a co-dominate way seeing as one is a recessive and the other dominate.. However I do have this here hat :howdy:and a huge appetite to boot. Sometimes I combine the two.

 

[JM]

Well from everything I'm seeing... day neutral is really ultra-light sensistive... now cres may come in here and correct me... but when i cross photo x auto... i get a more light sensitive... which leads me to believe that "day neutral" is actually just running right through veg to flower without waiting for daylight changes...

 

[Mr Piggy]

Okay, my understanding of daylight neutral genetics is that it was triggered from a separate gene from any level of photo sensitive plant. The photo sensitive trait, no matter how very or not sensitive it was, was a separate and individual trait from 24 hour flowering daylight neutral and that it was not possible to mix the two. It would be possible to to increase the sensitivity of the photosensitive plant with selective breeding but that it still would not be the same gene as the daylight neutral plant.

This would explain why autos bread to photo's must be in-bread until the auto trait pops out and not just become more sensitive with each successive generation until it finally becomes auto.

so instead of going say 12/12, 10/14, 8/16, 6/18, 4/20, 24 for the auto trait with each generation you get

12/12, 12/12, 24/0 with autos I'm familiar with.

........Fuck, if I'm wrong that's a big hat to eat.

 

[cres]

I have not yet seen a plant besides a rudi based one that is 100% daylight neutral, nor do I think it's impossible for another to exist. 100% is a large statement but I'm working off of genetic theory and how dominate and recessive traits work. I'm not telling you you're wrong for not growing autos, what to sell or what to breed. Why you keep bringing that up is beyond me. A plant can finish in the same time as a daylight neutral plant outdoors or in and still not be daylight neutral..

you have so much to learn...lol You need to break away from your rudy only theory...

Here are some things to ponder while you smoke....:thumbs:

Many tropical MJ plant ( like Thai) are Auto’s Day-neutral plants.
The light lever is 12/12 year round there. There is no light trigger.
They flower by age not light length, and they take at lest 6 mouths to start to flower.

My hypnoses on the auto gene.

My hypnoses is
LHY late elongated hypocotyl gene
and/or
CCA1 Circadian clock associated 1 gene
and/or
TOC1 Timing of CAB expression 1 gene
is responsible for flowering in Day-Neutral Cannabis, aka Auto-Flowering Cannabis.

I base this on the genetic work that has bend dun on Rosales.

The specie Cannabis is in the Cannabaceae family, which is in the order Rosales.


The dominant late elongated hypocotyl (lhy) disrupted circadian clock regulation of gene expression and leaf movements and caused flowering to occur independently of photoperiod. LHY was shown to encode a MYB DNA-binding protein. Increased LHY expression from a transgene caused the endogenous gene to be expressed at a constant level, suggesting that LHY was part of a feedback circuit that regulated its own expression. Thus, constant expression of LHY disrupts several distinct circadian rhythms and LHY may be closely associated with the central oscillator of the circadian clock. Of the central circadian clock genes, homologs of LHY and TOC1 were present in our EST libraries and GDR, respectively, but CCA1 was lacking from Rosaceae databases.


The list of circadian clock genes

• Gene, At locus tag, Name, Biological function
• LHY, AT1G01060, Late elongated hypocotyl, Myb domain TF
• CCA1, AT2G46830, Circadian clock associated 1, Myb domain TF
• TOC1, AT5G61380, Timing of CAB expression 1, Pseudo-response regulator
• LUX, AT3G46640, Lux arrythmo, Myb TF
• ELF4, AT2G40080, Early flowering 4, Unknown
• GI, AT1G22770, Gigantea, Unknown
• TIC, AT3G22380, Time for coffee, Unknown
• PRR3, AT5G60100, Pseudo response regulator 3, Pseudo-response regulator
• PRR5, AT5G24470, Pseudo response regulator 5, Pseudo-response regulator
• PRR7, AT5G02810, Pseudo response regulator 7, Pseudo-response regulator
• PRR9, AT2G46790, Pseudo response regulator 9, Pseudo-response regulator
• ELF6, AT5G04240, Early flowering 6, Jumonji/zinc finger-class TF

 

[cres]

sorry, correction I have grown lr crosses... But that is irrelevent, just needed to correct that.

 

[Mr Piggy]

Boy do I feel dumb this morning

Sorry OP for highjacking your thread.
Sorry Cres for doubting your experience.

 

[maffro]

Hello Hejdaman
Ive got some experience with what your going to do - i can tell you that the GH BBauto will take alot longer to finish that the Blue berryauto , maybe 30 days more so if possible start those indoors much earlier.
I use compost bags for my outdoor grows 60 litre ones, i cut them in half fill up a bucket with the excess soil then use the 2 halfs as pots for regular plants. Best way to do it is get a spade and cut the grass out - maybe 5 to 10 inch down then put the bags maybe quater in the ground then use rocks, logs or whatever and build around them to insulate them as best possible Ohh shit yea stab the bottoms of the bags fist !!!
Good luck

 

[cres]

Boy do I feel dumb this morning

Sorry OP for highjacking your thread.
Sorry Cres for doubting your experience.

aint no big thing... Its best to stop drop and roll when your on fire... I didnt want a smart guy like you going out so far without the proper mind set.

I personally have genetic questions which swirl in my brain about autos... and they all revolve around acclimatization, not indoor manipulation of time periods. I think without your typical evolution...just basic breeding that it is possiple with any strain regardless of any cross to any light sensitive or day neutral plant that one could breed an auto from any strain. This would need massive #s and many generations beyond the typical F3,4,5. But may be theoretically possible, it is quite possible that all cannabis carry a common gene that when isolated would be day neutral, just as Zygote pointed out that all equilateral strains have to be day neutral as there is no day light hours of change. Or it is that a ponder into plant evolution, we know with some basic plants and animals that evolution happens on a much faster scale then ever thought before... either way theoretically possible??? maybe, but by no means a practical way to stabilize "any" cannabis into day neutral...

At this point in time we can merely speculate on many aspects of autoflowering genes, it is a science, some things we will someday find out are false and some which are held commonly as accepted theory.


And @ Hejdaman. When choosing any strain for outdoors look for grow reports from outside growers it is so important to obtain feedback before you waste any time and money on seeds. So many indoor breed seeds can quickly succumb to mold in the wet northern climates. Most of my breeding is done outdoors, and ALL of my breeding is with known strains that exhibit excellent mold resistance, regardless of weather they were seeded inside or out.