Mephisto Genetics Simoigets SIP grow ..all time favorites of the mephisto variety

[simoiget]

According to the county, our well water isn't fit for human consumption so I have ro system that also adds in "good stuff" which is the side I've been using since going organic. Maybe I'll try the ro side for a bit. Still having issues with yellowing/rust spots that starts at the top suggesting manganese deficiency. Made some WSCALMAG and gonna try spraying the stems

@Sour D Interesting! ...the rust spots and yellowing in the upper growth sounds identical to the issue I have had the last couple grows. I am curious do you run lime in your soil? run with mulch covers on? do you top dress and/or top water at all?

I had it pegged as a calcium issue but who knows! deficiencies are hard to pinpoint and usually its a lock out causing the issue before a deficiency

 

[nizmoKush]

@WildBill yup I'm watching that series :smoking:

 

[Sour D]

@Sour D Interesting! ...the rust spots and yellowing in the upper growth sounds identical to the issue I have had the last couple grows. I am curious do you run lime in your soil? run with mulch covers on? do you top dress and/or top water at all?

I had it pegged as a calcium issue but who knows! deficiencies are hard to pinpoint and usually its a lock out causing the issue before a deficiency

I've been playing with the covers a bit. Running a couple with full covers, a couple without covers and My supersize box is partially covered and the area around stems no cover. Where I'm at, fungus gnats are ridiculous. I use nematodes and they work well-to a degree. So far I'm liking the 50/50 cover as its easy to top water under the cover and keep the area around the main stems relatively dry. So far I've only had to apply nematodes once at the start where the other ways I've had to do 2-3 applications per life cycle.
Definitely top dress with compost and worm castings. Generally when I do, I'll top water and I'll periodically top water maybe a litre of water. The ones with the full covers I won't top water as they keep enough moisture on the surface. I've also been using my trimmings for mulch.
Originally I thought the issues were from ph. I had heard from a number of people that you didn't need to worry about ph with living soil. Another Leighton nugget was that is only true if you are growing outdoors in the ground or really large pots. The larger the pot size the more forgiving the soil is. I was using em1 and found that it was lowering my water and runoff to around 4-4.3. A couple other amendments were also lowering it. Now that I've gone back to phing my water, a number of issues went away- except the rust. I'm trying wscalmag now to see if it helps. If not, I'll get some manganese sulphate to try.
Don't know if you've got this chart?

 

[Organic Sinse]

I've been playing with the covers a bit. Running a couple with full covers, a couple without covers and My supersize box is partially covered and the area around stems no cover. Where I'm at, fungus gnats are ridiculous. I use nematodes and they work well-to a degree. So far I'm liking the 50/50 cover as its easy to top water under the cover and keep the area around the main stems relatively dry. So far I've only had to apply nematodes once at the start where the other ways I've had to do 2-3 applications per life cycle.
Definitely top dress with compost and worm castings. Generally when I do, I'll top water and I'll periodically top water maybe a litre of water. The ones with the full covers I won't top water as they keep enough moisture on the surface. I've also been using my trimmings for mulch.
Originally I thought the issues were from ph. I had heard from a number of people that you didn't need to worry about ph with living soil. Another Leighton nugget was that is only true if you are growing outdoors in the ground or really large pots. The larger the pot size the more forgiving the soil is. I was using em1 and found that it was lowering my water and runoff to around 4-4.3. A couple other amendments were also lowering it. Now that I've gone back to phing my water, a number of issues went away- except the rust. I'm trying wscalmag now to see if it helps. If not, I'll get some manganese sulphate to try.
Don't know if you've got this chart?

View attachment 1308394

Unfortunately whoever said water quality and pH don't matter in organics was someone who probably had 'perfect' water. Both Simioget and I have really good water, low in carbonates. We are the exception more so than the rule.
The truth is, if you are growing in containers using organic methods the very first thing that should be done is to review the grower's water quality. (Some water is so bad you can't grow in it no matter what method you use.) In the states, municipal water utilities are required to provide period water reports for free. They are usually online. Folks on wells will need to get them tested. Many extension services do this for free or a minimal charge. Once you have a water source that has been mapped, a proper soil mix can be made. Especially important is attention paid to liming or providing lime to buffer the soil pH. If a person has high carbonates of calcium and mag, less liming if any is required to buffer the soil and keep pH in check. If a person has to go to RO quality water with almost zero carbonates in it, more liming is required to keep the soil buffered and in check. In true organic soils, the least concern is probably for chlorine or chloramine in water, as it is rendered inert very quickly when it comes into contact with organic material. A dirty water bucket is usually enough organic material to remove concerns about chloramine. I think the chlorine/chloramine issue is where part of the misinformation also comes from.
Often water quality issues don't have real bad effects until the soil sees its second round, or towards the end of a grow. That is when either carbonate levels have become to high or too low depending on your situation.
This part is VIP-Even bagged soil mixes that are pH balanced, are based on the middle scale for what is considered water that is acceptable for horticultural or greenhouse standards unless it is specifically stated. Ie, you never see organic soil mixes listed that are pH balanced to use RO water, or pH balanced for high carbonate content water.
cheers
os

 

[simoiget]

I've been playing with the covers a bit. Running a couple with full covers, a couple without covers and My supersize box is partially covered and the area around stems no cover. Where I'm at, fungus gnats are ridiculous. I use nematodes and they work well-to a degree. So far I'm liking the 50/50 cover as its easy to top water under the cover and keep the area around the main stems relatively dry. So far I've only had to apply nematodes once at the start where the other ways I've had to do 2-3 applications per life cycle.
Definitely top dress with compost and worm castings. Generally when I do, I'll top water and I'll periodically top water maybe a litre of water. The ones with the full covers I won't top water as they keep enough moisture on the surface. I've also been using my trimmings for mulch.
Originally I thought the issues were from ph. I had heard from a number of people that you didn't need to worry about ph with living soil. Another Leighton nugget was that is only true if you are growing outdoors in the ground or really large pots. The larger the pot size the more forgiving the soil is. I was using em1 and found that it was lowering my water and runoff to around 4-4.3. A couple other amendments were also lowering it. Now that I've gone back to phing my water, a number of issues went away- except the rust. I'm trying wscalmag now to see if it helps. If not, I'll get some manganese sulphate to try.
Don't know if you've got this chart?

View attachment 1308394

Thanks for the reply! great too hear from other SIP growers! just thought I would let you know that I used to battle fungus gnats as well. I went the nematode route and found them to be quite effective but I tried using BTI aka aka "mosquito dunks" and found them to be more effective and just a little easier to use. I just soak the dunks over a day or 3 and then dilute with water and water in via top water or in the res water...I will repeat this once or twice during a grow and I find zero gnats. I use them in worm bin to the same effect as well.

Im with you on the learning process with SIPs and like you I am sold on them even with the bumps in the road they out easily produce my fabric pot plants.

I have the chart above as well and my symptoms fit a lot better under the calcium deficiency

 

[simoiget]

Unfortunately whoever said water quality and pH don't matter in organics was someone who probably had 'perfect' water. Both Simioget and I have really good water, low in carbonates. We are the exception more so than the rule.
The truth is, if you are growing in containers using organic methods the very first thing that should be done is to review the grower's water quality. (Some water is so bad you can't grow in it no matter what method you use.) In the states, municipal water utilities are required to provide period water reports for free. They are usually online. Folks on wells will need to get them tested. Many extension services do this for free or a minimal charge. Once you have a water source that has been mapped, a proper soil mix can be made. Especially important is attention paid to liming or providing lime to buffer the soil pH. If a person has high carbonates of calcium and mag, less liming if any is required to buffer the soil and keep pH in check. If a person has to go to RO quality water with almost zero carbonates in it, more liming is required to keep the soil buffered and in check. In true organic soils, the least concern is probably for chlorine or chloramine in water, as it is rendered inert very quickly when it comes into contact with organic material. A dirty water bucket is usually enough organic material to remove concerns about chloramine. I think the chlorine/chloramine issue is where part of the misinformation also comes from.
Often water quality issues don't have real bad effects until the soil sees its second round, or towards the end of a grow. That is when either carbonate levels have become to high or too low depending on your situation.
This part is VIP-Even bagged soil mixes that are pH balanced, are based on the middle scale for what is considered water that is acceptable for horticultural or greenhouse standards unless it is specifically stated. Ie, you never see organic soil mixes listed that are pH balanced to use RO water, or pH balanced for high carbonate content water.
cheers
os

@Organic Sinse a wealth of knowledge as usual! really appreciate your input on this thread

 

[simoiget]

Day 15 today top dressed a very light amount of bokashi/barley kelp and castings

Watered in with microbial mass and mulched with straw.sized up and placed the burlap mulch cover. Won't do much to stop the gnats but hoping I can get away with just using the BTI.they will definetly breathe and i can just mist them at will.also the worms can eat the burlap too!

That's it for work now for at least 3 weeks or so when i might start to think about a top dress. I topped the res to half full and will let that drain before adding more.

I will lure some worms out of my main worm bin with some watermelon and add a handful to each container.there are some holdover worms from previous grows living in each container but I will boost there ranks a little. Again I always think of @MrOldBoy and his words "worms...the world's best gardeners" ..

 

[WildBill]

Day 15 today top dressed a very light amount of bokashi/barley kelp and castings

Watered in with microbial mass and mulched with straw.sized up and placed the burlap mulch cover. Won't do much to stop the gnats but hoping I can get away with just using the BTI.they will definetly breathe and i can just mist them at will.also the worms can eat the burlap too!

That's it for work now for at least 3 weeks or so when i might start to think about a top dress. I topped the res to half full and will let that drain before adding more.

I will lure some worms out of my main worm bin with some watermelon and add a handful to each container.there are some holdover worms from previous grows living in each container but I will boost there ranks a little. Again I always think of @MrOldBoy and his words "worms...the world's best gardeners" ..



View attachment 1308489


View attachment 1308490

Do you know if you can "activate" the Microbial Mass Like you do with EM1? Basically fermenting it with molasses in a brewer's jug for a few days.
Are the microbes in Microbial Mass aerobic or anaerobic? I haven't been able to determine that yet.

 

[simoiget]

Do you know if you can "activate" the Microbial Mass Like you do with EM1? Basically fermenting it with molasses in a brewer's jug for a few days.
Are the microbes in Microbial Mass aerobic or anaerobic? I haven't been able to determine that yet.

I am not sure.this is a new product for me. I think they are very transparent about what's in the product and I bet they would answer any questions a grower would have. maybe send them an email?

 

[WildBill]

I am not sure.this is a new product for me. I think they are very transparent about what's in the product and I bet they would answer any questions a grower would have. maybe send them an email?

I'm gonna have to do that. I asked on several vids if they were aerobic or anaerobic. If they are anaerobic, I don't see why I can't activate it like EM1, using the same procedure as EM1 and make it go further. The only problem would be knowing what PH it needs to get to be before considered to be finished.
I'm getting the impression it's possible, with two strengths available, but I'm also getting the impression they don't want people to know it can be done. Just an impression. It may not be possible or advisable.