POTENCY

[Waira]

:smoking:...good point, which I forgot to add before: pre-harvest dark period does nothing for cannabinoid content,... I don't know that more than a day or two of dark would cause a reduction, but it's well known that UVB elevates THC content. The hypothesis being the THC helps shield the DNA of the very young seeds from damage caused by UV light...

 

[CannaDaTaBiz]

:smoking:...good point, which I forgot to add before: pre-harvest dark period does nothing for cannabinoid content,... I don't know that more than a day or two of dark would cause a reduction, but it's well known that UVB elevates THC content. The hypothesis being the THC helps shield the DNA of the very young seeds from damage caused by UV light...

Yep. But the idea of stress prior to harvest is to make it go full defence and push out more THC. Anyways, this makes me think if putting an uv light while keeping the plant otherwise in darkness would improve both THC and terpene levels? Or if the plant would read the uv light as normal light and not even pushing out more terpenes due to not realising its dark properly, therefore eliminating the whole idea of darkness and it being better just to give uv before darkness and not during?

Perhaps cold stress + some root stress + UVB before and during darkness is the ultimate solution?

 

[Hypathetical Gardener]

:smoking:...good point, which I forgot to add before: pre-harvest dark period does nothing for cannabinoid content,... I don't know that more than a day or two of dark would cause a reduction, but it's well known that UVB elevates THC content. The hypothesis being the THC helps shield the DNA of the very young seeds from damage caused by UV light...

I use cmh... Does that count for uv?

I have been thinking about how i could rotate my light cycle to harvest about an hour or 2 after lights on (instead of 2 hours before lights off. But it would eliminate my weekend midday play time where i actually get to spend a few hours in there at once. Then again, i grow autos for a reason. I think a day or 2 of slightly interrupted light (1 8w walmart white led in the rooms cieling fan) shouldnt hurt em too bad.

 

[Son of Hobbes]

Yep. But the idea of stress prior to harvest is to make it go full defence and push out more THC. Anyways, this makes me think if putting an uv light while keeping the plant otherwise in darkness would improve both THC and terpene levels? Or if the plant would read the uv light as normal light and not even pushing out more terpenes due to not realising its dark properly, therefore eliminating the whole idea of darkness and it being better just to give uv before darkness and not during?

Perhaps cold stress + some root stress + UVB before and during darkness is the ultimate solution?

The idea should be more "the right kind of stress at the RIGHT TIME".

I heard hammering a nail into the stalk increases resin production.
I heard flooding the root zone with ice can cause a flood of new trichome growth.
I heard 48 hour of darkness minimum really pushes the plants to finish.
I heard menstrual blood from a woman can really boost trichome production.
I heard crushing up infant vitamins into your feed is good for the plant.
I heard pissing directly into the pot gives a great nitrogen boost in veg.

I heard a rumor.... that none of these things offers anything other than anecdotal "proof."

If the maturity of the trichomes is what we're shooting for peak/optimal THC levels, then flooding the plant with new growth before harvest seems like a daft idea (if it even remotely worked that way.) Even if it DID create a heavier concentration of trichomes, those trichomes would not be at an optimal level of maturity. Ever harvest a plant way to early? It's not typically a pleasant high.

Growers need to get over these "hacks" IMO and instead work on creating optimum conditions for each stage of growth.

Anyone can grow cannabis. ANYONE.
Few people can grow GOOD cannabis.
Fewer people yet can grow GREAT cannabis.

If every stage of growth is a percentage that the sum of the whole equals 100%, then skimping on any of those stages of growth results in a less than 100% optimal plant.

Potency is the "entourage effect" of the presence or lack of certain cannabinoids, terpenes/terpenoids, and flavonoids. It's the concentration of those present, the combinations of what is there (or not,) etc that provide the effects that we feel.

Further, it's your own body's endocannabinoid system that determines how THOSE things even work for your individual person.

That's why for some people, edibles do NOTHING. For some people, they can smoke and smoke and never get "blazed." For some people, one hit makes them think a childhood friend is secretly the FBI in a sting operation.

Here in Colorado, the recreational market (and let's be VERY clear here, there is no such thing as "medicinal and recreational cannabis," ALL CANNABIS provides medical benefits!) buys wholesale flower based on:

1. THC content strictly (no one gives a shit about CBG, THCV, CBD, etc.)
2. Bag appeal (hand trim vs machine trim, visible stems/crows feet on the buds)
3. Seeds. Finding one seed in the crop during purchase immediately DROPS the price of wholesale pounds by HUNDREDS of dollars.

And that's it.

For years (decades?), breeders have pretty much SOLELY focused on THC content. Pyramid Seeds produces autoflowers, nearly 10 years ago they came out with their Auto Tutankhamon. They LITERALLY were marketing it as the first autoflower to test over 30% THC. It didn't take long for that marketing to go away, because.... it's pretty easy to test for lol.

Heck, when I first started it I even did the same thing. "What's the highest THC percentage I can find on the label on the website?" That's soooooooo not how it works.

Genetics, whether it's photoperiod from seed, photoperiod from clone, or autoflowers, have a POTENTIAL for potency. You CANNOT buy or grow cannabis that "tested out over 30%" and "just expect" your cannabis to be over 30% . Sorry to burst bubbles, but that's just not how it works. I've seen HUNDREDS of Ethos Genetics (most people here are famililar with Ethos, I'm less impressed with their genetics and more impressed with their marketing at this point.) But so many Ethos's have allegedly tested out high in terms of THC on testing. But when growers (whether at home or even commercially grow them,) rarely do they see this "amazing claim." That's because without an experienced driver, awesome genetics are the coolest car you've ever seen, but it's a stick shift and you only know how to drive an automatic.... (I'm terrible with metaphors.) But that's why you can get a cut of some of the most amazing genetics on the planet, but if you're not a skilled grower.... welcome to 'ho-hum' cannabis.

 

[Builder0101]

When I think of potency I think of a well rounded plant that provides the terps, thc, etc.

 

[Son of Hobbes]

More food for thought:

The average THC potency for our list of approved Colorado genetics (there's an approved list basically of what grows are allowed to grow with, it sounds restrictive but then you find out that everyone lies out their asses and brings in all sorts of random outside shit (illegally) is testing under 20%.

Colorado, a legendary state of cannabis. Epic growers, breeders, genetics? And our average tested (by lab submission) on THC potency is under 20% (about 18% by the last chart I saw.)

18% THC.

Meanwhile, we're seeing autoflowers that are testing out in the 20's. Mid 20's. High 20's?

The first commercial grow I worked at had a strain called Maui (just Maui) that tested out both indoor and outdoor grown, consistently, at 8% THCa. That's fucked up lol. And man. We smoked it. And man. STONEYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. Oh man. Got the job done. But only 8% (and consistent lol.)

And cannabinoid/potency testing? Don't even get me STARTED on what a shit show that whole thing is. Between grows submitting their own samples (you can doctor samples sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo easy, holy shit! And it's all boy scout honor system to not lie bwahahahaha! Because NO ONE will doctor a sample to get a higher testing lab result that DIRECTLY influences the wholesale price on the market (or even retail for seed sales, hmmmmmm.) You can roll buds in kief, you can inject oil in the middle, you can take buds that legitimately tested high from another cultivator and submit them as your own sample (lol!) Lab's don't give a shit. They wanna get paid, not play moral compass.

There is no standarized method of testing. So depending on the lab chosen, equipment they run, the tests will be vastly different. Some potency testing uses heat during the process (causing decarboxylation.) These are just basic paid lab techs, better hope Suzy McScientist didn't party too hard last night, or Ted McSmartGuy didn't decide to slack off on cleaning the equipment (cross contamination is more prevanlent than you think.)

When I think of potency I think of a well rounded plant that provides the terps, thc, etc.

See and I think there is totally something to that with the terpenes as well. There was a plant at our current grow that tested at 10% concentration of terpenes (which apparently is pretty high,) and (cards on the table, have not smelled it myself yet) the head grower told me "it reeks like the most gasoline gas you've ever smelled in your entire life." But I've smelled some pretty rank smelling buds (like most) and can imagine it's probably on the lines of that "holy shit does this stink" kind of weed.

 

[Son of Hobbes]

I grew a Kush n' Cheese by Dinafem years back (photoperiod) that smelled like a newborn infant ate 7 bowls of curry and took a dump in it's diaper (but in a good way.) Terp city. Grossness (but in a good way.) lol. Man that was stoney shit too.

 

[Waira]

Yep. But the idea of stress prior to harvest is to make it go full defence and push out more THC. Anyways, this makes me think if putting an uv light while keeping the plant otherwise in darkness would improve both THC and terpene levels? Or if the plant would read the uv light as normal light and not even pushing out more terpenes due to not realising its dark properly, therefore eliminating the whole idea of darkness and it being better just to give uv before darkness and not during?

Perhaps cold stress + some root stress + UVB before and during darkness is the ultimate solution?

Triggering the SAR (systemic acquired resistance) can be done several ways,.. Physical stress, chemical/phermone (chitin is one, bug's moltings and feces are detected), salicylic acid (aspirin!)... but these need some time to work their magic!
I'm not sure about just UV alone, producing secondary metabolites like cannabinoids and terpenes is very energy expensive,... During dark, the stomata are closed mostly, and so the flow of nutes from roots up is minimal... I suspect the supply line for such production is limited, and it's why I think more than a day or so of darkness isn't going to see much return, meanwhile the potential for mold is elevated....


great posts @Son of Hobbes

I grew a Kush n' Cheese by Dinafem years back (photoperiod) that smelled like a newborn infant ate 7 bowls of curry and took a dump in it's diaper (but in a good way.) Terp city. Grossness (but in a good way.) lol. Man that was stoney shit too.

.... until that! .... my Wild Thai Ryder had distinct barf aroma in the jar, but not in the smoke/flavor-- thank fuck! ...Room smoke aroma was amazing, unique to this day....
I still like Cat Piss too -

 

[Son of Hobbes]

The first commercial grow I worked at had a strain called Maui (just Maui) that tested out both indoor and outdoor grown, consistently, at 8% THCa. That's fucked up lol. And man. We smoked it. And man. STONEYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. Oh man. Got the job done. But only 8% (and consistent lol.)

I actually like knowing that tested at 8%. That right there should be a nod in the general direction that THCa/THC (while definitely and arguably still VERY important,) is NOT definitely what is giving you that "high" feeling necessarily (though may "shape" things depending on the variables.)

 

[Son of Hobbes]

Triggering the SAR (systemic acquired resistance) can be done several ways,.. Physical stress, chemical/phermone (chitin is one, bug's moltings and feces are detected), salicylic acid (aspirin!)... but these need some time to work their magic!
I'm not sure about just UV alone, producing secondary metabolites like cannabinoids and terpenes is very energy expensive,... During dark, the stomata are closed mostly, and so the flow of nutes from roots up is minimal... I suspect the supply line for such production is limited, and it's why I think more than a day or so of darkness isn't going to see much return, meanwhile the potential for mold is elevated....

I'll have to pick your brain a bit about this especially; when I get bored sometimes I start collating information on stuff to try to put together for the site:

One of those things was trying to discuss the importance of darkness for plants, even C3 plants (where the very common argument comes into play that C3 plants can photosynthesize 24 hours a day in the right conditions.) But I like to pose "just because you CAN, does that mean you SHOULD?"