POTENCY

There are lots of ways to complicate life by worrying/tweaking for higher cannabinoids and terpenes. I might do it for a plant I consider special but
I'm far from convinced that these manipulations are worth the effort. And though Waria gives a reasonable case for leaving them in the dark, i don't buy it and only testing on multiple plants including controls will prove or disprove it. I've not looked into it to see what scientific information there may be, and the only anecdotal information I'd except would be multiple bud samples sent to a lab. I guess it doesn't hurt one way or the other.

And I've thought a time or two that it would be nice to have my strains tested for THC/CBD but when it gets right down to it, if it gets you as high as you like, takes care of your medical needs, and is enjoyable to consume, it really doesn't matter. Growing should be laid back, enjoyable, not an exercise in stress tolerance...........lol!

As to flushing...... well most here know my viewpoint on that, it's a myth! And a complete waste of time and damaging to your plant. I'vre heard of some people who take it to the extreme. They pour boiling water through the pot to kill the roots.......... but maybe i shouldn't be giving people ideas!

You want more trichromes? Get better lighting, don't over feed, control your garden temperature and humidity. Yes a recent study suggests that drought conditions may increase trichrome production. However, there is no information on how to apply this to indoor gardens, even outdoors. There is no guideline to suggest how dry to let them get, for how long, under what other stressors. I hope we see someone look into this more as this seems to me to be a possible worthy endeavor as its using the plants survival abilities to trigger a response. Or, it too may be a waste of time!
 
I pretty much agree with you on all. I like to push them to the end. No top dress or anything last few weeks but I definitely give them teas and biology.
I am wearing one that is close to finish every other day. Probably not much of a stressor but the medium does get pretty dry. Heck she might like it and go longer or just go longer out of spite for all I know.
She has been kinds weird since birth but I swear when I ripped the tips off of several dozen leaves
For a few days in a row she got really active . Pushed out a bunch of green. I'm not even sure if that was a good thing. At his stage less green may be better. The mystery continues.
 
I pretty much agree with you on all. I like to push them to the end. No top dress or anything last few weeks but I definitely give them teas and biology.
I am wearing one that is close to finish every other day. Probably not much of a stressor but the medium does get pretty dry. Heck she might like it and go longer or just go longer out of spite for all I know.
She has been kinds weird since birth but I swear when I ripped the tips off of several dozen leaves
For a few days in a row she got really active . Pushed out a bunch of green. I'm not even sure if that was a good thing. At his stage less green may be better. The mystery continues.

I used to do things at the end... But then i heard a valuable argument to stop it... Trichomes takes time to go from clear to cloudy to amber. Weeks of development. What is the purpose of putting it in the dark or stressing it to make it push more (useless clear) triches out at the end? If anything, wouldnt it make more sense to stress it around midflower so those triches have a few weeks to amber up?
 
I used to do things at the end... But then i heard a valuable argument to stop it... Trichomes takes time to go from clear to cloudy to amber. Weeks of development. What is the purpose of putting it in the dark or stressing it to make it push more (useless clear) triches out at the end? If anything, wouldnt it make more sense to stress it around midflower so those triches have a few weeks to amber up?
This isn't what happening HG :biggrin: ... Damien is on point here with dark hours plant activity... it's the terpene content that getting restored, not more actual trichomes being produced... your conclusion about that would be correct if that's what was happening....
A lot goes on in the dark! Starting with the building of glucose molecules using the CO2 and light energy (now in the form of ATP/NADH), and then in Respiration those Carbon to Carbon bonds in the glucose are broken, releasing the energy needed to drive other life sustaining reaction elsewhere in the plant...

To @pop22 point (Mr. Skeptic :pighug::rofl:), what I was saying is that for outdoor plants, daily weathering from Sun, wind , Temps, all take their toll on terpene content; it's at night when they are getting built back up again... Indoor plants don't usually have such factors affecting terp's this way, not to the same degree to be sure. I know with absolute certainty that my OD plants have their strongest, most complex (rich) aroma in the early morning, after the Sun has warmed them up a bit... Cool T's really reduce the volatility of the lighter (molecular weight) terp's, conversely, warmer drives them out... If you smell strong aroma at mid/late day, early eve, it's because they are volatilizing strongly out of the bud, that doesn't mean the content in the trich's is at it highest, quite the opposite, right?
pop, I did run across a part of a study (link) a few years ago, when looking up terpenes,... Spanish, but I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it now! :doh: ....They did take bud samples at various times of the day and test them, concluding levels were highest early in the day... But if you still have doubts, consider the other part of the Ag' industry that works with essential oils,...for example: Lavender farmers take their cuts after dawn to get the richest highest aromatic oil content....

Potency needs better definition than just outright THC/cannabinoid content... that's a facet of it, not the whole picture by any means... It's the terpenes that play a huge role in the nature and quality of the high, along with the other non-THC cannabinoids.... I set aside CBD here because of it's moderating influence on THC's psychoactivity, so from a rec' standpoint, and "getting high", it's not what most gellies want- :rofl:.... Others may not produce the same effects as THC, but they alter the nature of it for sure,... terpenes take that even further, with what all they bring to the table... This can get very complicated fast, and part of the fog is the bogus conventional use of the term's "Sativa" and "indica" which botanically speaking, are wrong as it's applied to drug type cannabis, and the perceived respective nature of their highs... Many terpenes can have sedative or invigorating effects, alter brain-blood barriers, things like this that lend a given strain it's perceived potency and qualities... I can honestly say the potent bud I've smoked, effect-wise, was not the most hit-for-hit strongest... An example: this Gorilla Breath from last year, very strong hit per hit, but smoke too much, the buzz sours, becomes sub-head achey (if that makes sense), heavy, dulling to mind and senses,... other side of the coin, an Acapulco Gold from a few years ago, one pheno' had this sharp citrus/metallic aroma, jittery as fuck early on, but mellowed after several weeks cure and while not hit-per-hit as strong as the GB, the buzz was a rocket ride to HIGH-landia! Only other strain I can think of stronger was a Vortex pheno' that was just devastating in psychoactivity:dizzy:... My mate Ribbzzy just finished Golden Tiger, a powerful Malawi/Thai cross from ACE, and it's now on the tops of the Killer list (read up on her for terp content and cannabinoid lab test results, ditto for Malawi)... sometime it all comes together and you get something that's beyond special, and absolutely not for novice tokers or those who can't deal with crushing head-highs, something African and Thai landraces plants are well known for...

** an article of interest on Variations in terpene profiles of different strains of cannabis: here
 
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There are lots of ways to complicate life by worrying/tweaking for higher cannabinoids and terpenes. I might do it for a plant I consider special but
I'm far from convinced that these manipulations are worth the effort. And though Waria gives a reasonable case for leaving them in the dark, i don't buy it and only testing on multiple plants including controls will prove or disprove it. I've not looked into it to see what scientific information there may be, and the only anecdotal information I'd except would be multiple bud samples sent to a lab. I guess it doesn't hurt one way or the other.

And I've thought a time or two that it would be nice to have my strains tested for THC/CBD but when it gets right down to it, if it gets you as high as you like, takes care of your medical needs, and is enjoyable to consume, it really doesn't matter. Growing should be laid back, enjoyable, not an exercise in stress tolerance...........lol!

As to flushing...... well most here know my viewpoint on that, it's a myth! And a complete waste of time and damaging to your plant. I'vre heard of some people who take it to the extreme. They pour boiling water through the pot to kill the roots.......... but maybe i shouldn't be giving people ideas!

You want more trichromes? Get better lighting, don't over feed, control your garden temperature and humidity. Yes a recent study suggests that drought conditions may increase trichrome production. However, there is no information on how to apply this to indoor gardens, even outdoors. There is no guideline to suggest how dry to let them get, for how long, under what other stressors. I hope we see someone look into this more as this seems to me to be a possible worthy endeavor as its using the plants survival abilities to trigger a response. Or, it too may be a waste of time!
Potency is the name of the thread mostly due to the extracts for gummed I am making. The terpines etc are not as important there. (I think, could be wrong) never heard anyone eat a Gummi and comment on the terpines. I suppose it also goes hand in hand that the more you can get a plant to express THC or CBD the secondary metabolites will also be expressed (im sure someone will disagree ).

As to pushing till the end it is my belief, though I'm still learning, that pushing to the extent that I use teas at the end to "push" may actually act as a flush of sorts. The abundance of microbes in teas which are low in "fertilizer", relative to actually top dressing, should metabolize more nutes in the medium than accompany them in the tea. I do like to water only the last couple waterings but certainly not the last 10. Nature does not flush yet when an annual is done it is done. It fades etc.
I will never be convinced that the photosynthesis 2 that occurs at night should be skipped during the grow. I definitely believe that early AM or pre dawn is the best time to harvest. Thousands upon thousands of farmers have sworn by it for centuries. Definitely smell your lavender or rosemary at dawn and again at dusk. You will not need a scientific study.
And yes a 12%THC bud will get you high or get you some relief so who really cares? Bragging rights I guess. Terpines etc is where it is at for flower. I just want to make smaller gummies with higher ml THC. The short answer to that is better extraction process. Infusing oil by heating flower in water and oil has to be the least effective way possible. I'm switching to alcohol. Some day maybe ill graduate to making shatter or something approaching pure. Ther are so many possibilities with this wonderful gift from God. May you all be truly blessed. Stay healthy. Get back to work.
 
Potency is the name of the thread mostly due to the extracts for gummed I am making. The terpines etc are not as important there. (I think, could be wrong) never heard anyone eat a Gummi and comment on the terpines. I suppose it also goes hand in hand that the more you can get a plant to express THC or CBD the secondary metabolites will also be expressed (im sure someone will disagree ).

As to pushing till the end it is my belief, though I'm still learning, that pushing to the extent that I use teas at the end to "push" may actually act as a flush of sorts. The abundance of microbes in teas which are low in "fertilizer", relative to actually top dressing, should metabolize more nutes in the medium than accompany them in the tea. I do like to water only the last couple waterings but certainly not the last 10. Nature does not flush yet when an annual is done it is done. It fades etc.
I will never be convinced that the photosynthesis 2 that occurs at night should be skipped during the grow. I definitely believe that early AM or pre dawn is the best time to harvest. Thousands upon thousands of farmers have sworn by it for centuries. Definitely smell your lavender or rosemary at dawn and again at dusk. You will not need a scientific study.
And yes a 12%THC bud will get you high or get you some relief so who really cares? Bragging rights I guess. Terpines etc is where it is at for flower. I just want to make smaller gummies with higher ml THC. The short answer to that is better extraction process. Infusing oil by heating flower in water and oil has to be the least effective way possible. I'm switching to alcohol. Some day maybe ill graduate to making shatter or something approaching pure. Ther are so many possibilities with this wonderful gift from God. May you all be truly blessed. Stay healthy. Get back to work.

When I spoke with Sannie of Sannie's Seeds, my mentor, and some research I found that drying on the vine improves the quality with a really nice slow dry.

I tried it when I ran Malawi x Panama from Ace Seeds and The second batch that was just cut and hung to dry wasn't the same as the batch I left to dry for three weeks uncut. There's a lot of ways to cure it though. If I remember correctly the Jamaicans would throw it in the roof at harvest and let it dry but I do believe that it causes a fermentation process similar to how Malawi natives bury their weed for months after harvest in tightly wrapped cobs.

With you having particular desires for edibles for extracts in general I think it takes the conversation deeper. Certain strains combined with certain environmental conditions might provide better quality for what you want. The Malawi strain was very very oily compared to a Northern Lights I grew that was sticky but the trichs weren't as dense.
 
We want it all right? Too buds for flower. Everything else for extracts. The world of extracting has made me much more discriminate about what I consider top bud. Which in turn will give me better extracts.
Most of my materials for extract are buds instead of sugar leaves and kief.
 
I do like the idea of not watering for a few days b4 harvest. Feels right. 48 hours of dark does not feel right but perhaps 8 hours. Let the plant have time to send all of the sugars etc that it is going to to the roots. I think after 8 hours it is probably done with that process.
Next harvest (which is coming up soon) 3 days no water and 8 hrs dark. I think.
 
This isn't what happening HG :biggrin: ... Damien is on point here with dark hours plant activity... it's the terpene content that getting restored, not more actual trichomes being produced... your conclusion about that would be correct if that's what was happening....
A lot goes on in the dark! Starting with the building of glucose molecules using the CO2 and light energy (now in the form of ATP/NADH), and then in Respiration those Carbon to Carbon bonds in the glucose are broken, releasing the energy needed to drive other life sustaining reaction elsewhere in the plant...
Thank you. That makes a lot of sense.
 
I havent tested or looked into this stuff a lot, what tricks to do prior/during flushing.

However i did recently test this trick where you ut ice cubes on top of soil a bit before taking the plant to dark, while putting it to dark. Well i put some ice on one, quite badly heat stressed plant that also had quite bad nute burn early flower, so it stayed quite small. Well it started shooting pistils like crazy the next day, so i decided to keep growing it. It grew about 15% or more after giving it some ice cubes. New growth was mostly foxtailing, but still there was reasonably much of it and there was also overall fattening up.

However! It could be that the ice released the plant from some heat stressed state and thats why it started growing new pistils all of a sudden so much or it could be that AN Flawless Finish i gave to it somehow gave it new life, the plant did start running out of nutes quite much, so perhaps the magnesium or sulphur in flawless finish somehow made more other nutes available to it? So i cant be certain if the ice cubes would have same effect on healthy plant. But i dont think it does any harm if someone wants to test. I will test this the next time.

Also i have wrekked the roots when i put plants to dark to create some stress. Just putting my fingers in the soil and ripping some roots apart, but not all of it. Now i just figured to put ice cubes in the soil, and put many of them, deep, so that they will break some roots and will cause proper cold stress to it. Again nothing proven to get good results with this, im still testing this stuff, but both stressing the roots and cold stress are theories people claim to give some results. So i guess it wont do any harm either.

If i remember right, 48 hours of darkness is optimal by some guys tests. Who tested it properly with clones and lab testing the weed for all terpenes and everything. There is a youtube video about his tests if you want to try to find it(i cant be arsed now) and also double check if i remember the 48hours right. Anyways the darkness seems to effect terpenes the most, too little darkness doesent release all terpenes yet, but too long darkness the plant starts to suffer too much and terpene profile starts to go worse. The optimal time might also vary from strain to strain and ofc personal preferences, some might like a bit more "ripe" terpene profile
 
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