Mephisto Genetics Organic "Green Sea of Change" 6 MG strains always changing

I just try and lay out all the branches as flat as I can. Instead of thinking about the 'colas only' on each branch, I lay them out as flat as possible, and all the individual buds turn up and really pack it on. Later, I usually turn around and Velcro up the branches to help support all the weight, and allow the plant to put more energy into the buds, and not use that energy to hold them up.
A better way to explain is to think about each branch being bent flat, working just like bending the main. For indoor grows, I have angled side lighting that further aids my training style. Its part of the reason I get such good yields. Its a training style that I pretty much came up with on my own years ago. It works real well without side lights too, but if ya got it, use it.
MOB has developed a training style real similar to mine, we use the same type of stakes for hooks and weights.
I have so many decades of experience from a gardening and farming mainstream perspective that I have just kind of adapted things to cannabis, ie I was a real gardener before I started growing weed, not the other way around like a lot of folks.
Slow, I'd be happy to ramble on more about anything specific you want to know.
cheers
os
I gotcha! I have been doing this for decades, not real gardening! I am one to do minimal training on my plants first go around. I believe many times people over train or waste space. Laying things out too much and eating up floor space. I enjoy watching you and MOB do your thing. Makes me wish I lived in the county again. I would jump on board and follow you guys if I lived in my Childhood home. Peace, slow
 
I gotcha! I have been doing this for decades, not real gardening! I am one to do minimal training on my plants first go around. I believe many times people over train or waste space. Laying things out too much and eating up floor space. I enjoy watching you and MOB do your thing. Makes me wish I lived in the county again. I would jump on board and follow you guys if I lived in my Childhood home. Peace, slow
One thing that I never mentioned, is I can only have 6 plants in 'flower' at one time (12 plants total), to stay perfectly legal. Except for certain occasions I try and just stay at 6 plants at any given time, cause I just can't seem to quite get the timing right consistently when I try to start adding vegging plants to the mix. With that in mind, I have trended toward trying to get the most out of each one, instead of say doing a lot of smaller plants all at once. I also have a pretty decent sized indoor room to play with, about 80 useable square feet. I only use a fraction of that space most of the time, so I have room to handle letting my girls get wildly big if they want.
Another thing I try and do is leave a decent amount of space between plants. Nothing touching nothing, with lots of open space between the canopy circles. It makes a huge difference when you train the way I do.
I also don't normally repeat growing strains. The exception is I have 2 strains going now in the green house that I ran this winter while hunting for good GH candidates. Otherwise, I have done 34 different strains in a row with no repeats. Needless to say, I am set up for adapting to every single plant being different every time. Makes ya a good gardener!

I wanted to share something with you slow, @MrOldBoy, @FishWizard, and @Roasty McToasty. This round of plants I have going now in the GH haven't had a single soil drench of anything but water. I have been using kelp and alfalfa teas, but as a foliar only. It works incredible! A friend of mine talked me into trying the no tea soil drench deal and just foliar. The theory being that by not adding acidic teas you aren't screwing with the soil chemistry, so the plant doesn't have to exert extra energy or resources to helping the soil balance itself. Also a small amount of foliar, is all that's needed, because the plant is so efficient at uptaking the nutrients directly. I also don't spray the bottom of my leaves, just the tops and all stems.
I am upping my frequency of vermicompost top dressings to also help compensate for no teas. Seems to all be working well.
cheers
os
 
One thing that I never mentioned, is I can only have 6 plants in 'flower' at one time (12 plants total), to stay perfectly legal. Except for certain occasions I try and just stay at 6 plants at any given time, cause I just can't seem to quite get the timing right consistently when I try to start adding vegging plants to the mix. With that in mind, I have trended toward trying to get the most out of each one, instead of say doing a lot of smaller plants all at once. I also have a pretty decent sized indoor room to play with, about 80 useable square feet. I only use a fraction of that space most of the time, so I have room to handle letting my girls get wildly big if they want.
Another thing I try and do is leave a decent amount of space between plants. Nothing touching nothing, with lots of open space between the canopy circles. It makes a huge difference when you train the way I do.
I also don't normally repeat growing strains. The exception is I have 2 strains going now in the green house that I ran this winter while hunting for good GH candidates. Otherwise, I have done 34 different strains in a row with no repeats. Needless to say, I am set up for adapting to every single plant being different every time. Makes ya a good gardener!

I wanted to share something with you slow, @MrOldBoy, @FishWizard, and @Roasty McToasty. This round of plants I have going now in the GH haven't had a single soil drench of anything but water. I have been using kelp and alfalfa teas, but as a foliar only. It works incredible! A friend of mine talked me into trying the no tea soil drench deal and just foliar. The theory being that by not adding acidic teas you aren't screwing with the soil chemistry, so the plant doesn't have to exert extra energy or resources to helping the soil balance itself. Also a small amount of foliar, is all that's needed, because the plant is so efficient at uptaking the nutrients directly. I also don't spray the bottom of my leaves, just the tops and all stems.
I am upping my frequency of vermicompost top dressings to also help compensate for no teas. Seems to all be working well.
cheers
os
Interesting, I am always up for learning.
 
@MrOldBoy
My folks live down in America and have a 'hang out' kind of like what you were describing you want to build. They framed an addition from the main house onto the north deck. It has a polycarbonate or similar material roof to let sun in. The walls are all screened in, in the form of removable panes, and have storm type panes in frame (plastic) that can be put in in the winter. Its a great 3 season hang out. Table and chairs furniture, stereo and a TV, with live plants in containers on castors. When I visit, I spend most of my time in that area.
cheers
os
 
Good Info Sinse .....

Couldn’t agree more on space / plants / size ...... always always always in the garden - the more space a plant has the larger it will grow - and some of that depends on plant such as carrots can be crowded some but crowd tomatoes and watch your yield drop - Marijuana and tomatoes have similarities and space is one of them - to grow to full potential they both need space and good ventilation ..... 80sq foot / six plants is more than adequate for a personal / family and one could easily do 24 plants in that but yield per would go way down and work increased dramatically and quality down as well, smart as less is more!

Teas and drenches??? In Sam’s Grow I used no teas or drenches - Teas are good when watered in during normal watering routine but Drenches target an area that could harm the beneficials in the area, so no drenches unless bug problem .....

Spray feed - Why not underside of leaves? I actually target the underside of the leaves as I believe nutrients are absorbed more efficiently and less damage of light burn - BUT talking Light Burn when spraying plants - I turn off lights or remove plant from tent and air dry before any light hits leaves that are wet ..... Kelp, Fish fertilizers, thrive.n, teas, budswell, super tea, are a few I’ve used Foliar feeding.

Peace,
OB
 
Good Info Sinse .....

Couldn’t agree more on space / plants / size ...... always always always in the garden - the more space a plant has the larger it will grow - and some of that depends on plant such as carrots can be crowded some but crowd tomatoes and watch your yield drop - Marijuana and tomatoes have similarities and space is one of them - to grow to full potential they both need space and good ventilation ..... 80sq foot / six plants is more than adequate for a personal / family and one could easily do 24 plants in that but yield per would go way down and work increased dramatically and quality down as well, smart as less is more!

Teas and drenches??? In Sam’s Grow I used no teas or drenches - Teas are good when watered in during normal watering routine but Drenches target an area that could harm the beneficials in the area, so no drenches unless bug problem .....

Spray feed - Why not underside of leaves? I actually target the underside of the leaves as I believe nutrients are absorbed more efficiently and less damage of light burn - BUT talking Light Burn when spraying plants - I turn off lights or remove plant from tent and air dry before any light hits leaves that are wet ..... Kelp, Fish fertilizers, thrive.n, teas, budswell, super tea, are a few I’ve used Foliar feeding.

Peace,
OB
When I use the term soil drench , its just to take the place of the word watering, (from gardening books). ie a tea applied via soil drench is 'watering a tea'.
The reason for not spraying the bottom of the leaves where the stomata are, is to not interrupt transpiration. When the undersides are wet, the stomata close. Its only temporary, but hey, why interrupt the process. Most parts of the stems are able to absor
If I am spraying plants for the purpose of ipm or pest control, and say applying neem oil or essential oils, I spray absolutely everything on the plant, especially the bottoms of the leaves. The bottoms are where most insect pests like to hide.
cheers
os
 
When I use the term soil drench , its just to take the place of the word watering, (from gardening books). ie a tea applied via soil drench is 'watering a tea'.
The reason for not spraying the bottom of the leaves where the stomata are, is to not interrupt transpiration. When the undersides are wet, the stomata close. Its only temporary, but hey, why interrupt the process. Most parts of the stems are able to absor
If I am spraying plants for the purpose of ipm or pest control, and say applying neem oil or essential oils, I spray absolutely everything on the plant, especially the bottoms of the leaves. The bottoms are where most insect pests like to hide.
cheers
os

Makes sense about undersides and transpire rate.

Peace,
OB
 
Coming along way after the fact, what an explosion of lovely thoughts, discussions and pictures! Makes me want to get my soil and closet back up and running even more :D Thanks guys!

@Organic Sinse : it's lovely to get to see your grows and read about your compost concoctions again, such a pleasure!
I do have a few questions regarding the bark chips:
- what kind of bark are you using? It sort of looks like coniferous where I can spot it on the pix, but is it?
- any specific reason as to why bark and not wood chips?

The reason I'm asking is that a part of what I've been doing out there in the real world (urban landscaping) is to establish the use of wood chips from deciduous plants in lieu of those ubiquitous (coniferous) bark chips.
This comes mainly from a reasoning centering around ecological succession and soil conditions required for the appropriate groups of microbial populations in the soil for the plants we want to grow.

In terms of succession, the conifers are the last group of species to colonize out there in nature. Starting from bare soil, nature moves through opportunistic, flimsy weeds as pioneers, on to brassicas and tap-rooters who start conditioning the soil to greater depths, on to annuals, which on their more developed end include pretty much all our veggies - and cannabis. Then enter the perennials, grasses, row crops, shrubs, bushes, deciduous trees, and finally come the conifers, giving us our climax communities.
In each stage of succession, plant matter becomes more complex and nutrient requirements change, which isn't a problem since out in nature, each plant that grows in that soil and dies there leaves its organic matter behind, conditioning the soil ever more in a successionally more developed direction.

What is less commonly known is that there is a corresponding successional development of the microbial populations in the soil.
In the weed stage, all the soil harbours is bacteria, at best accompanied by bacterial feeding protozoans and nematodes. As organic matter builds up, fungi start taking hold and greatly improving the soil quality in terms of structure, air & water holding capacity, and nutrient cycling. Moving along the successional line, fungal presence keeps increasing.
So where we have a fungal to bacterial biomass ratio of 0.1 in that weedy field, we will have a ratio of 0.75-1 in our healthy veggie garden, a ratio of 2-5 and upwards in the root zones of our raspberries, currants.. and ratios of 100+ in healthy forest situations.

And along with these come ever increasing numbers and species of flagellates, amoebae, nematodes and microarthropods, who are essential to making the nutrients stored in the bodies of bacteria and fungi plant-available:
The bacteria and fungi mine nutrients from the soil (from mineral as well as organic matter) and store them in organic forms within their bodies, the predators then eat the bacteria and fungi and excrete nutrient excesses in plant-available form. And that will be happening mainly and most intensely in the plant's rhizosphere, because the plant is directing all this cycling underfoot by putting out exudates to attract and feed exactly the right types of microbes who will mine what they need at any point of their life cycle. About half of what a plant photosynthesizes goes straight into the production of these exudates, which can be very differently composed to feed different groups of microbes - even within the same root system.
It's mind-boggling when you think on it for any amount of time! We still know very little about these mechanisms, which has to do with research funding and interests of the money-givers. But it has been safely established that natural nutrient cycling is vitally dependent upon the cooperation of the soil food web with the plant, initiated and orchestrated by the plant itself.

What does need to be provided is the microbial herd itself, and we need to do this actively when working in closed systems as we do. And you are already doing that, by using your leaf mold and diverse composts, aerobically produced from well-balanced proportions of inputs!
But with every input you also have microbes piggybacking in, replenishing and developing your ecosystem. Now, conifers are way beyond cannabis successionally speaking, so will be bringing in sets of microbes that will less likely be put to use. They won't do harm, they won't even die, just go into a long dormancy, but it seems kind of a bit of wasted opportunity to me, as the sets found in deciduous plant matter will be much closer to home and more likely participate in the nutrient cycling feast underground.

I recently declared the only thing bark chips are good for is paving the way in people's minds for using the more wholesome wood chips lol
Firstly, they're hydrophobic. That's what they're meant to be, they're bark, protecting the tree from the elements! So they hold on to nothing, and also decompose very slowly just for being bark. Coniferous bark takes it a step further, as it contains antifungal terpenes if not very well aged, and will slow decomposition yet more.
So unless we want to harness these properties for some reason (e.g. drainage, or in landscaping, "decoration"), it really isn't the ideal choice for woody additions in terms of soil production and nutrient cycling. And we want good woody additions, as the complex organic molecules it's made up of is staple fungal food. And most of the time it's fungi we are missing in our soils.

Goodness grief, I've gone and written a book - again! Old habits die hard lol :smoking:
I do hope it all makes some sort of sense though!
Cheers!
 
Coming along way after the fact, what an explosion of lovely thoughts, discussions and pictures! Makes me want to get my soil and closet back up and running even more :D Thanks guys!

@Organic Sinse : it's lovely to get to see your grows and read about your compost concoctions again, such a pleasure!
I do have a few questions regarding the bark chips:
- what kind of bark are you using? It sort of looks like coniferous where I can spot it on the pix, but is it?
- any specific reason as to why bark and not wood chips?

The reason I'm asking is that a part of what I've been doing out there in the real world (urban landscaping) is to establish the use of wood chips from deciduous plants in lieu of those ubiquitous (coniferous) bark chips.
This comes mainly from a reasoning centering around ecological succession and soil conditions required for the appropriate groups of microbial populations in the soil for the plants we want to grow.

In terms of succession, the conifers are the last group of species to colonize out there in nature. Starting from bare soil, nature moves through opportunistic, flimsy weeds as pioneers, on to brassicas and tap-rooters who start conditioning the soil to greater depths, on to annuals, which on their more developed end include pretty much all our veggies - and cannabis. Then enter the perennials, grasses, row crops, shrubs, bushes, deciduous trees, and finally come the conifers, giving us our climax communities.
In each stage of succession, plant matter becomes more complex and nutrient requirements change, which isn't a problem since out in nature, each plant that grows in that soil and dies there leaves its organic matter behind, conditioning the soil ever more in a successionally more developed direction.

What is less commonly known is that there is a corresponding successional development of the microbial populations in the soil.
In the weed stage, all the soil harbours is bacteria, at best accompanied by bacterial feeding protozoans and nematodes. As organic matter builds up, fungi start taking hold and greatly improving the soil quality in terms of structure, air & water holding capacity, and nutrient cycling. Moving along the successional line, fungal presence keeps increasing.
So where we have a fungal to bacterial biomass ratio of 0.1 in that weedy field, we will have a ratio of 0.75-1 in our healthy veggie garden, a ratio of 2-5 and upwards in the root zones of our raspberries, currants.. and ratios of 100+ in healthy forest situations.

And along with these come ever increasing numbers and species of flagellates, amoebae, nematodes and microarthropods, who are essential to making the nutrients stored in the bodies of bacteria and fungi plant-available:
The bacteria and fungi mine nutrients from the soil (from mineral as well as organic matter) and store them in organic forms within their bodies, the predators then eat the bacteria and fungi and excrete nutrient excesses in plant-available form. And that will be happening mainly and most intensely in the plant's rhizosphere, because the plant is directing all this cycling underfoot by putting out exudates to attract and feed exactly the right types of microbes who will mine what they need at any point of their life cycle. About half of what a plant photosynthesizes goes straight into the production of these exudates, which can be very differently composed to feed different groups of microbes - even within the same root system.
It's mind-boggling when you think on it for any amount of time! We still know very little about these mechanisms, which has to do with research funding and interests of the money-givers. But it has been safely established that natural nutrient cycling is vitally dependent upon the cooperation of the soil food web with the plant, initiated and orchestrated by the plant itself.

What does need to be provided is the microbial herd itself, and we need to do this actively when working in closed systems as we do. And you are already doing that, by using your leaf mold and diverse composts, aerobically produced from well-balanced proportions of inputs!
But with every input you also have microbes piggybacking in, replenishing and developing your ecosystem. Now, conifers are way beyond cannabis successionally speaking, so will be bringing in sets of microbes that will less likely be put to use. They won't do harm, they won't even die, just go into a long dormancy, but it seems kind of a bit of wasted opportunity to me, as the sets found in deciduous plant matter will be much closer to home and more likely participate in the nutrient cycling feast underground.

I recently declared the only thing bark chips are good for is paving the way in people's minds for using the more wholesome wood chips lol
Firstly, they're hydrophobic. That's what they're meant to be, they're bark, protecting the tree from the elements! So they hold on to nothing, and also decompose very slowly just for being bark. Coniferous bark takes it a step further, as it contains antifungal terpenes if not very well aged, and will slow decomposition yet more.
So unless we want to harness these properties for some reason (e.g. drainage, or in landscaping, "decoration"), it really isn't the ideal choice for woody additions in terms of soil production and nutrient cycling. And we want good woody additions, as the complex organic molecules it's made up of is staple fungal food. And most of the time it's fungi we are missing in our soils.

Goodness grief, I've gone and written a book - again! Old habits die hard lol :smoking:
I do hope it all makes some sort of sense though!
Cheers!
Great to hear from you and I always love the conversation.
I do use landscaping type pine bark. I use what they call small nuggets for size, and 90 percent of it falls thru a 1/2" screen. If I could find the size they call fines, I would use that as well, but I have never found it here in AK.
My reasoning for using bark instead of chips, is that pine bark doesn't take nitrogen from within the soil to break down, or at least not nearly as much. Even though it may appear that I use the bark as just a mulch, it doesn't exactly start out that way. I actually add the bark to my compost or leaf mold along with a few other items, then I run it thru a worm bin. In fact when I have more greens to compost than I have browns available, I will add the bark to the compost pile and let it start 'working' even earlier. This gives the micro biology a jump start to work on the bark. I use the resulting vermicompost both as part of my soil mix, and as a top dressing. Next is the neat part. After I top dress a nice thick layer of vermicompost with about 30% bark in it and top water, the castings and other things wash down into the soil, leaving the bark on top to serve as a mulch. In other words, I have self mulching vermicompost top dress. Its kind of like killing to birds with one stone, and save me some work/ time. I didn't really plan it that way in the beginning, it is just how it worked out and I loved it.

As far as having the bark down in the mix (which also would have gone thru a worm bin, exactly the same as my top dress) I was trying to incorporate some of the principals behind hugelculture into container gardening which I hadn't seen at the time. Some of the benefits were slow release of nutrients into the soil, via degradation of the bark and habitat for fungal type microbes and worms. I wanted lignin and free carbon in the soil, as I believe that's important for no till containers. Another was the ability to hold additional water in the bark itself. The water holding ability was something that I learned from reading about Florida gardening, where they use bark as part of there humus portion of a soil mix, as well as its ability to hold water, instead of vermiculite. Thru simple tests at home, I have found that the bark I use can actually hold about 40% of its volume in added water. (It was also a great way to keep my worm bedding hydrated in the winter, when my home RH is 10-20% because of heating.)

The end result is that I have been able to consistently get 3 rounds of notill autos out of a 10 gallon container, water only- no teas, with nothing more than 1 tablespoon of each of alfalfa and soy meal placed below the mulch in between cycles. I literally chop a plant, and place another seed the same day. I am actually trying to squeeze a 4th run out of some containers right now.
I went long too. But anyway that was at least part of my reasons, and I love the results. I'm sure there are some more reasons, but that's the gist of things.
As always, I really enjoy your conversation, its so fun and interesting to chat with ya.
cheers
os
 
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