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[Groff]

ahh... I've just stubbled on a piece of info that may be relevant to both my case, and many others in the future. But its not conclusive... input needed.

Ok, so it seams I may have been over zealous in my pursuit of a super fantastic crop. Less is more, and I may have broken that rule. I've been reading up on ALOT of info, maybe suffering from information overload. Its not my fault!! I've become seriously addicted to growing, and my scientific mind cannot keep from striving for the optimal conditions...

So Liquid Silicon is pH up, but also a very very excellent additive to hydro/coco systems, to invigorate plant structure, nute uptake etc. But to compensate, you need to push that pH down.
There are two main types of commercial horticultural pH down. Phosphoric and Nitric acids. I ordered Growth Tech pH Down, that is based on Phosphoric Acid (had no idea at the time)

It seems Nitric is preferred for veg and Phosphorus for flowering (reasons unknown still, but it seems general consensus). I also read that if you over do the dosage, pH goes too up, too down, add this and that to compensate... that the levels of these acid, albeit the almost inexistent ppm values, can burn the plants.

Now, I am 100% sure I did not got up down up down up down like crazy until I got it right. But I did use Liquid Silicon for the first feed (as suggested by numerous sources) and had to tame that pH down with Phosphorous Acid... at about 3-4ml/30L water.

Could it be that adding the Liquid silicon and using Phosphorus instead if Nitric acid could have further enhanced my problems?
Because I have seen that it is "preferable" to use Nitric over Phosphorous acid in veg, but I have yet to understand the consequences of using Phosphorous in veg, if any.

Comments welcomed

 

[insert name here]

Groff,

I think that the reason people say that Nitiric Acid is a better pH down in Veg is because of the Nitrogen, and then the Phosphoric acid is better for the flowering because of the phosphorus. This may have affected your plants, but you have one main advantage over auto growers, is that you have photos, and you can nurse them back to health, and then flower them when they are ready. I would take a step back, deep breath, and let your plants grow a bit. I know ZERO about coco or soil, but I have my expereince that I have freaked about minute changes and saw them come around. Hopefully your plants will, and you will have a great grow.:smokebuds: Sending more your way bro...

 

[Groff]

Insert, thank you for your words. I am doing my best not to freak out, but I did make a considerable investment in this current setup, and for some f*cked up reason it is all going wrong... dear me... I am at my wits end... trying to troubleshoot every variable here. Plus, Tony and DP entrusted me with some beans and I am letting them down very bad...

Today I tested the run-off from the trays... its back up to 6.2-6.4 on all plants ... wtf is going on ?? Is it the medium that buffered back up?
Preped a 30L res pH 5.2 and total EC of 0.775. Will let it settle until tonight and check values again. Checked calibration, and its spot on.

Guys, I don't know... should I pull the trigger on these and start over? Nuke the sh*t out the coco until pH is stable and start again?

 

[insert name here]

i'd say give em a little more time. Like I said I know hydro, and have little experience, let them take to the changes that you have given and see what comes of it.

 

[Kush T]

Insert is correct about the nitrogen & phosphorus in veg & flower... But I don't think it's such a big deal... Could be wrong...

My pH down is phosphorus acid... Veg or flower...

 

[Groff]

All right, will do... I'll wait a few days and report back.

 

[Kush T]

If you can get all settled down & stable Groff I'd say your lady's will recover well & go on to flower well... Plenty of time with photos.. & as insert says that is on your side..

Healthy youngling karma sprinkled

 

[Groff]

Hey guys, long time, no update...

Well, because there was nothing to update on! Growth stunted completely, but stabilized. 2 weeks without growth, but not worse! I can happily say I feel they're back on track, noticed a little growth since yesterday... Lets see... I think only 1 of the Night Queens might not make it, but then again, she might...

Here are the good news;

I am 100% certain now that I got a very bad batch of coco.
Germed my left over seeds as backup, picking the best ones to see them through... The pH problem has been fixed.

That was the good new. Now for the neutral news...

We have an invader amongst us!! Probably due to bad coco handling. Anyone ever got anything like this?



Yup, thats right. a little grassling. Have no clue what it is, I though it was actually grass, but that thing popped out 2 days ago and has TRIPLE its size since yesterday. WTF ?! Should I pull it out? Will it compete with the girl?

Now for tha bad news... :firedevil:

Today I installed a switch on the LEDs so I can fire up the CFL to take proper pictures. I was completely in shock at what I found.







So on one hand I am kind of relieved it wasn't my incompetence... But right now I dont give a sh*it about that. I dont want to loose them.

Please advise on what to do!!

 

[Stunted]

The greenery you have growing on the top of your Coco would indicate the Coco has been too moist/wet and not allowed to dry out a bit, that with some light makes green stuff grow.

To avoid it let the Coco dry more and cover the top of the coco with something to block the light, something like hydroton.
If you are sitting your pots in any thing that can hold water then the Coco will suck the runoff water straight back up as soon as it can, allow to drain very well after watering.

To me it looks like your plants are too "Stunted" and you would be best off replacing them, if you really want to keep them then repot into something much smaller and then use the pots for new ones...still

Little babies in Coco can handle a lot of water at the start, they cannot however handle being punched upside the head repeatedly with loads of nutes.
For the first weeks 100-300ppm is plenty (start at 100 and end at 300), then slowly go up or down depending on what your plants need.

As for the PH, if the runoff is not somewhere between 5.8 and 6.3 then I would flush with PH 6 water until it is, once it is there it should stay there or close to it.

Please do not listen to me, I cant grow green plants

Small Return
:smokebuds:

 

[Groff]

Long time, no update.

I have contacted Canna and gotten a response. They seriously encouraged me to ditch the LED's and get HPS/MH, the reason being very low radiation heat will prevent the plants from sweating and thus taking in water/nutes. They also suggested I upped the EC to 1.6 to compensate for the low water intake.

actually, let me go ahead and copy/paste their email

Hi Groff,

Thank you very much for your question.

Indeed CANNA COCO is washed and (pre-)buffered
We don't recommend LED by the way, but this light has no heat radiation. This means the evaporation of the plant is low. This means the plant needs more nutrient in every litre you give to the plant. So increase your EC to at least 1.6.
If you grow at low EC, the plant will become soft, and cannot handle higher evaporation later on like giving the plants more distance, lowering the light, using the fans etc. The leaves start to burn and die off.
A higher EC will also control your pH in the substrate more, because of this one must be high. Your plants are suffering at this moment in a deficiency of Nitrogen, Iron and other metals. Adding N27% can help. But for now we recommend to spray CANNABOOST 2 ml/Litre. To cure it fast.
So if the EC is low and the evaporation of the plant is low (by the LED)the plant will not take up nutrients. Because of it the pH went up and now the plant cannot get nutrients, because of the high pH.
If you have some money left, purchase a HPS for your next growth. LED is still in research!!

In the mean time, I had cracked my left over seeds that grew just as strong and happy. But alas, as soon as the second true leafs appeared, they also exhibited the exact same yellowing, except I change back to MH 600w as soon as the little yellowing started. So lets see what happens. I'll give them another week and report back.

This is day 1 of the 600w MH lights.









And yes, these are the new cracked seeds. So they've not had the chance to adapt to the new lights and start evaporating... If this doesn't fix it, I don´t know what else will. The pH in this new coco (new bag, substrate 1:1.5 dilution = pH 6.3, washed out to 5.8) dead on target, as so is my nutrient mix.
I have given a feed of 1.3 (base 0.35, conversion factor 0.5) and pH 5.8, and not as Canna suggests 'cos I've gone back to HID.

I have quadrupled checked everything else, from pH meter reading against other brands, my nutrient prep, dates of expiration, given 30 minutes between Canna A & B as extra safety... everything seems spot on.

If there is no clear sign of improvement within a week I will have to call it quits and start over.

I seriously dont get it. Coco is supposed to behave as hydro, plus the airpots, it "should" behave as a passive DWC setup...

I even managed to get the light to a knowledgeable LED tech who dismantled it and told me they are very good lights and LEDs chips, as advertised. The light spectrum is correct, the actual power draw is good (it has 2x 70w transformers inside)... (photo's on this soon too)

Oh well, lets see if the its the lights or not... will report back

:cry: