Dutch Passion My first hydro grow: 2 DP StarRyder, GHE Waterfarm, 150W HPS and tons of questions

[Keyser]

Hi guys, I'm completely new here and would really appreciate some of your more professional opinions.

I'm not sure if I posted this in the right section... the "New Growers Forum" seems to be for first grows and this is not exactly my first grow... just my first hydro grow. Then I thought Hydro section but that seems to be a little deserted so... if this needs to be moved please go ahead

I've been growing autos (Dutch Passion AutoBlueberry and AutoMazar) for a while but so far have only planted in soil, now I've switched to Star Ryders and want to get into hydroponics.

My setup:
- Room approx. 170x80x50cm
- 2x Dutch Passion StarRyder seeds
- 2x GHE Waterfarm (30x30x37cm, ~15l) top feed systems with 2 dedicated pumps
- 2x 10l of noname Hydrocorrels/Clay pebbles from my local gardening supply store
- 150W MH/150W HPS under a modified Adjust-A-Wings so it fits in the room, no heat spreader (afaik they are only needed on higher wattages)
- 25cm computer fan
- Tap water pH 7.9, EC 0.45mS
- Temp and humidity measurements are a bit off at the moment because of the distance between hygrometer and plants but will be around 25°C and 50-70%
- Adwa AD-204 EC meter, noname "PH-03(I) Pen-type pH Meter"

The room is not finished yet and the pumps are currently "on probation", I'll put them on some kind of a pedestal in a few days once I know they work ok.

Then a ton of questions:

Pump:
1) Do the pumps have to be on 24/7 or can I alternate them in 30 minute intervals or something? Or can I mod one pump for use on both plants? Does it have enough power for that and does tube branching like that even work? Do they really just use 1.8W each (as seen on the photo below)?! I'd like to save power (unless it's really just 1.8W) and mostly reduce noise. Plus I don't want to drown my plants...

2) Can I silence those pumps somehow? Just put them on a rubber mat? The supplied rubber feet don't seem to quite do the trick. Could I open the case and silence something inside? Could I build a new case that reduces noise? Can I even open those pumps without breaking something? Are they serviceable?

3) Is it normal that there are no constant water streams from those Waterfarm top feed rings but just short bursts of dripping water? And that they sometimes make "sick" noises? Like trying to breathe heavily when having a cold?

Hydro:
4) Did I transplant too early? Today is day #15 from seed, I transplanted them yesterday. Using soil I would have transplanted at day 12-14 too.

5) I filled roughly 9-10l of water into each waterfarm, it seems to be just short of touching the bottom of the hydrocorrel tank, is that a good idea? Should the hydrocorrels touch water? How low can I let the water go before refilling? GHE says 10-15 days so my feeding schedule would have to be adjusted.

6) Should I use hydrocorrels for the small plastic seedling room (like I did this time, just build it two weeks ago) or should I just use soil, perlite or something else?

7) Should I put a piece of cloth over the blue water outlet/measurement tubes to stop insects from dropping in there? As seen in one of the pictures below.

Other:
8) How can I silence the lamp ballast? Cable ties don't seem to work for me... could i use a small vice to slightly push it together? Maybe with some rubber on there to dampen any noise?

9) The grow room door is never completely closed, do you think I need venting in/out? It worked fine for 2 years so far, the doors are opened every few hours. So should I add the fans or can I just skip them?

10) Should I move the lamp lower right now or wait a week or so? Temperature shouldn't be a problem yet but I never used MH lamps before so I'm not sure. Currently the plants get roughly 13k lux, 60cm below the lamp.

11) Is this feeding chart accurate/usable for me?

I made it based on past observations of auto grows on soil, that "TDS and pH Explained" article from here and various recommendations from Hesi, GHE and others.

I have Advanced Hydroponics PH+/- Grow/Bloom and Hesi Hydro Grow, Hydro Bloom, Root Complex, SuperVit, Power Zyme and PK13/14. Plus I still have some leftover BioGrow Root Juice and Alg-A-Mic as well as various pH/EC meter solutions.

Also I'm not sure how long StarRyders take from seed to harvest, Dutch Passion says 10-12 weeks, this chart would accomodate up to 13 weeks:

Week 1 Seed Distilled Water (Cup/Paper Towels), Tap Water (Rockwool)
Week 2 Seedling pH 5.8; Root Complex 1:200
Week 3 Grow pH 5.8; EC 1.0mS; Root Complex 1:200, SuperVit 1 drop per 5l of water, Hydro Grow 1:200
Week 4 Grow pH 5.8; EC 1.2mS; SuperVit 1 drop per 5l of water, Hydro Grow ~1:200
Week 5 Grow pH 5.8; EC 1.4mS; SuperVit 1 drop per 5l of water, Hydro Grow ~1:200
Week 6 Bloom pH 5.8; EC 1.6mS; SuperVit 1 drop per 5l of water, Hydro Bloom ~1:200, possibly Power Zyme and/or PK13/14
Week 7 Bloom pH 5.8; EC 1.8mS; SuperVit 1 drop per 5l of water, Hydro Bloom ~1:200, possibly Power Zyme and/or PK13/14
Week 8 Bloom pH 5.8; EC 2.0mS; SuperVit 1 drop per 5l of water, Hydro Bloom ~1:200, possibly Power Zyme and/or PK13/14
Week 9 Bloom pH 5.8; EC 2.2mS; SuperVit 1 drop per 5l of water, Hydro Bloom ~1:200, possibly Power Zyme and/or PK13/14
Week 10 Bloom pH 5.8; EC 2.2mS; SuperVit 1 drop per 5l of water, Hydro Bloom ~1:200, possibly Power Zyme and/or PK13/14
Week 11 Bloom pH 5.8; EC 2.2mS; SuperVit 1 drop per 5l of water, Hydro Bloom ~1:200, possibly Power Zyme and/or PK13/14
Week 12 Bloom pH 5.8; EC 1.0mS; SuperVit 1 drop per 5l of water, Hydro Bloom ~1:200, possibly Power Zyme and/or PK13/14
Week 13 Ripen pH 5.8; Tap water

Well, that was a long first post I hope you don't mind. I just wanted to get all of the questions out of the way as soon as possible. Thanks for your help!

 

[Keyser]

Don't shove people! Let me just try to answer my own questions:

1) The pumps can run 24/7 and can most likely also be alternated in certain intervals below 1 hour. I haven't tried it yet though, but the plants seem to manage fine with the pumps off for an hour or two. For some reason if you turn the pumps off and let them rest a few minutes they also seem to run quiter for a while afterwards...

2) The pumps can be silenced a bit by hanging them from their power cords; beware though, the power cords carry vibrations from the pump so you might want to isolate any points of contact. Don't bend the cords too much.

3) General Hydroponics Waterfarm systems do create a little noise but it's nothing to worry about as long as water drips from the entire feeding ring thingy.

4) Transplantation of those plants into the Waterfarms on day 14 was ok, they developed fine.

5) It seems the nutrient solution is supposed to stop just below the plant containers. The roots will grow through the little holes in the containers and into the nutrient solution, turning the system into some sort of a DWC/top-feed hybrid. The nutrient solution should last for 4-8 days during the growth stage and probably 2-4 days during bloom.

6) Hydrocorrels work fine.

7) Since the blue tubes will never be empty dead insects won't be able to get into the nutrient solution so covering them up seems unnecessary.

8) Well, my lamp ballast is still not silent. I have yet to play around with it since it's not really a problem.

9) I still haven't found any reason to install extra inlet or vent fans, just the circulation fan and a slightly opened door.

10) I moved the lamp to approx. 30-35cm above the plants a week later; I have been keeping that distance constant since then.

11) I'm altering the feeding schedule as I move along:

Tap water EC 0.45mS-0.60mS; pH 7.1-7.3
Day 01 - Day 07 Seed Dist. water (cup/paper towels), tap water (rockwool)
Day 08 - Day 14 Seedling pH 5.8; Root Complex 1:200
Day 15 - Day 21 Grow week 1 pH 5.8; EC 1.2mS; SuperVit 2dr/10l water, Hydro Grow 50ml/10l water, Root Complex 50ml/10l water
Day 22 - Day 28 Grow week 2 pH 5.8; EC 1.3mS; SuperVit 2dr/10l water, Hydro Grow 60ml/10l water
Day 29 - Day 35 Grow week 3 pH 5.8; EC 1.4mS; SuperVit 2dr/10l water, Hydro Grow 70ml/10l water
Day 36 - Day 42 Grow week 4 pH 5.8; EC 1.4mS; SuperVit 2dr/10l water, Hydro Grow 70ml/10l water, Power Zyme 20ml/10l water
- flush & clean everything -
Day 43 - Day 49 Bloom week 1 pH 5.8; EC 1.6mS; SuperVit 2dr/10l water, Hydro Bloom 50ml/10l water
Day 50 - Day 56 Bloom week 2 pH 5.8; EC 1.8mS; SuperVit 2dr/10l water, Hydro Bloom ~60ml/10l water, 2.5ml/10l PK13/14
Day 57 - Day 63 Bloom week 3 pH 5.8; EC 2.0mS; SuperVit 2dr/10l water, Hydro Bloom ~70ml/10l water, 5ml/10l PK13/14
Day 64 - Day 70 Bloom week 4 pH 5.8; EC 2.2mS; SuperVit 2dr/10l water, Hydro Bloom ~80ml/10l water, 7.5ml/10l PK13/14
Day 71 - Day 77 Bloom week 5 pH 5.8; EC 2.2mS; SuperVit 2dr/10l water, Hydro Bloom ~80ml/10l water, 15ml/10l PK13/14
Day 78 - Day 84 Bloom week 6 pH 5.8; tap water

Progress:

Day 15:


Day 23:


Day 27:


Day 31:


Day 35:

 

[1highman]

Lol, I'm just now seein' this but hey man great job gettin' it all figured out props man.

 

[Keyser]

@1highman Thanks a lot, yeah, I'm very happy! I'm sure others here could do much better but I personally love my gals

Now let's just hope those pics stay up, I used the forum album function but didn't attach the pics to the thread but just linked to them... otherwise I'll have to upload them again, no problem either.

Oh and sorry for the triple post but I couldn't edit the first one and there seems to be a limit of 20 pics per post so I couldn't post all of them in post 2 either.

Day 39:


Day 43 (today): starting bloom; #1 (on the right) is 40cm high, #2 45cm; switched from 150W MH to 150W HPS; switched nutrient solution, used roughly 9l of water for each plant


I'm extremely happy with this grow so far. Yes there are some problems (my tap water isn't ideal, I just flushed a big salt buildup today, there might be nutrient deficiencies I can't quite put my finger on) but since I just busted my hydro, metal halide and StarRyder cherries I think I'm doing ok.

If anyone would like me to keep posting as the grow goes along or can help with whatever problems my little ladies seem to be suffering from please let me know; also I'm looking for good guides on SCROG, if anyone can help - great!

 

[leeold7]

:thumbs:

 

[1highman]

Keep up the good work man, she looks healthy and happy.

 

[Keyser]

Thx guys, I'm glad my girls and I aren't being booed off stage! Some people here go to such extraordinary lengths to get great plants but I have to try to focus more on efficiency and low cost so it makes me extra happy to see other people like them too.

I still have some questions though, maybe you could help me out:

After reading some of the other grow diaries for StarRyders on here it seems mine are very late bloomers, correct? Some dude had nice big developing buds on his on day 45, mine are only just starting to enter into flowering... or do people count differently than I do? Day 1 = day seed is thrown into glass of dist. water to germinate, right?
That happened on Nov 28; then they went into paper towels; on Dec 1 I put #1 into a rockwool cube below the 150W MH in my self-built little humidity house containing clay pellets; a day later #2 followed; I kept watering them and added a little bit of Hesi Root Complex later; I kept going until they had a bunch of nice white roots sticking out of their respective rockwool cubes. On Dec 11 they went into the Waterfarms and a day later I took the first pictures which you can see above. Did I transplant them too late perhaps? They seemed to grow visibly every day so I assumed nothing was stifling their growth... but I'm starting to think I may have been wrong about that.

So SCROG... if I understood the concept correctly, that just means taking some sort of netting (I have some white plastic netting with big holes left over), tucking leaves away under it to get one big green screen and letting budsites stick out at the top in order to even out the canopy? Do people usually let their plants grow through the netting (which would seem to imply they had to know precisely how tall and fat those plants would be at certain points to get the net at the right heights) or do they add the netting after growth has (almost) stopped and just bend stuff around to fit then?
I think I once saw a really great explanation of SCROG somewhere, possibly on here, but I can't find the link anymore. If anyone has it please let me know. And I'm not really sure if SCROG is even suitable for those 2 plants in that little room.

Finally tragedy has befallen me. Usually when I fill up the nutrient solution or take pics of the roots I lift the plant container up and out of the water container, turn it by 45° and carefully put it back on top, so I'm left with a big hole to fill up or photograph through.
Yesterday I did the same thing to #2 after I had changed the nutrient solution and cleaned out the water containers but I was in too much of a hurry so she slipped and the plant container crashed back into the Waterfarm. It was like watching a car crash in slow motion.
Lucky for me at least the visible fallout isn't too bad; 2 of the lower leaves fell off and the plant didn't stand entirely straight anymore; I gave her a little nudge and moved some clay pellets around and it seems to be ok now.
But of course some of the roots must have been damaged; the photo of #2's roots you see above was taken after the crash so it doesn't seem to be tooooo bad but I'm sure some must have been squashed, cut off etc.
So my plan was to use some (unscheduled) Hesi Power Zyme during the next feeding in a few days to get rid of the dead roots but is there anything else I can do to help her? She seems ok but I feel really bad and want to make it up to her - and I don't think buying flowers will do the trick here. :cry:

 

[alley_walker]

1. Pumps can be left on 24/7. This is how I have always done it. If you wanted to buy an expensive timer and do something like 5 min on 5 min off it wouldn't hurt. But it's unnecessary. One thing to watch out for is clogging. Make sure you have a pre-filter otherwise your halo will get sediment build up and quit working.
2. Yes, you can build a small box with short hair carpeting on the inside. But you still need to allow for some airflow to keep pump cool. But for the most part, water does the majority of the cooling needed.
3. Again make sure your halo rings aren't getting clogged. You are experiencing some breathing problems. Not a big deal. Poke a small hole in the top of the halos to aid breathing. Also, you want to disconnect them at some point and clean out with high pressure water.
4. Looks good to me?
5. Just touching the bottom of the hydrocorrel tank is optimal. But as your plants start drinking more and more this is hard to maintain. No worries however, the drips from the halo and the bubbler inside keep things going fine should the water levels drop. I have found that over filling the tank by about an inch is best since I don't like adding water every day. I wait until the plant needs a gallon of water or more.
6... 7...
8. Ballasts are noisy. Not much you can do there. (Some a lot more than others) You have to allow airflow around the unit to keep it cool. If you are concerned about noise, try adding background white noise of some sort. When I have guests or people over, I use a rock polisher to cover any noise. Use your environment to come up with a noise solution.
9. The smell will be the reason why you will need good ventilation. Not to mention water temps. Water temps are best at 65-72 deg F. Anything more than that you will start having nute lock out. If water temps get to high, I just take a bottle of frozen water and drop it in the bucket. It works and it's cheap. Do this when you have to have the door closed for a long period of time.
10. Heat will dictate the height of the light. Be very VERY careful when moving the light closer to the plant. I learned this the hard way. Remember, you have to deal with water temps as well.
11. Can't answer. I just use sensi-grow A&B and use half the amount they say on the bottle. Other people here can answer that question a lot better than me!

Great grow by the way!! Amazing in fact! Oh and scrogging.. It's a very good method for high yields but there is a draw back. You can't take the buckets out for cleaning. That's the only reason I haven't done it.

 

[realcarlos]

Nothing to add but very nice

 

[Keyser]

@alley_walker Thanks a lot for all the answers, it's always good to get more opinions! I'm reading your "My little grow deal thingy" thread right now, beautiful plants and so much space... I wish I could put my old tent back up, but for now I have to "stay in the closet".

Pre-Filters: What do such pre-filters look like? Can I just take some pantyhose or something and put it at the bottom of the white water tube in the water container or should I get something more advanced?
Pumps: I'm a little confused... you said "But for the most part, water does the majority of the cooling needed. " but the pumps themselves never come in contact with water in that system, they only pump air into the tubing?! I think I misunderstood something there.
Ballast: that's not really a problem, I grow in a room nobody else ever accesses. It's just a little annoying sometimes. I have a 12cm computer fan in front of the ballast which keeps it cool all day, the surface temps went down from 70°C to 33°C (158°F to 91°F) at the hottest spot I could find.

Water temps & Ventilation: I haven't paid any attention to water temps yet but I shall do so in the future. 65-72°F = 18-22°C, that seems reasonable. Currently the water surface temp is at 21.2°C/70°F, I have no way of measuring "inside" temps but I suppose they are similar. I really like the "frozen" water idea, if that doesn't produce too big a shock that's very quick and easy. But considering my current temps (in the room at slightly above canopy level ~25°C/77°F) and the water temps which seem ok too, do you really think I'll need more venting to cool? The smell is a concern of course but I haven't had any problems with it in the last 2 years (or actually ever for that matter, I've just been using the same closet for 2 years) since the room is off limits to anyone but me. I'm thinking about adding a 120mm computer fan directly behind the lamp so I can hang it lower and another 120mm fan relatively low at perhaps 20-30cm from the containers to keep it windy. I once built such a nice airducting system for that Adjust-A-Wings but I had to get rid of it. Memories...

Light/Heat: Yeah, I try keeping them out of harm's way, the current 30-35cm distance seems pretty good unless I install further cooling. Of course I acted like a clumsy moron at the lamp/nutrient switch yesterday which resulted in a burnt leaf... among other things as mentioned above. So I've learned to fear heat as well.
SCROG: I take it from your answer that the nets have to be hung up early so the plants can grow through, right? Which means no more moving containers? So if I want to use SCROG I have to know precisely how plants will develop which means I can only use it on plants I've grown before, right? If so, that sucks. I was thinking about trying a SnowStorm #2 next along with a StarRyder, or maybe giving my old accidental Jorge's Diamonds #1 x Orange Bud crosses a try. Time will tell.

Thanks again, I really appreciate it - the answers and the praise, actually I'm pleasantly surprised at how positive your reactions are so far.

Oh and I already posted some more questions in case anyone got really bored

EDIT: I would have loved to post some pics today but the girls didn't change enough to make it worth the effort. In the meantime I have two other pics to keep you entertained

My two best (so far) AutoMazar top colas. #1 was harvested too early but I was out of bud. Fingers crossed for big buds on those StarRyders!





Sorry for the paranoid editing but... I'm paranoid.