Let’s talk organics. How newbie/stealth friendly can it be?

[olegren]

Thank you all again!

@blue - Thanks for those! I will check to try and find both. That has definitely been a bottleneck for me. My local places all carry the popular Fox Farms varieties. My hydro shop has one of the Roots Organic mixes, but I think it's closer to Ocean Forest so comes with a bit of a punch out of the bag. The Coast of Maine mix mentioned is unavailable through local sources; but I see they have it on amazon for a bit of an inflated price.

@Mañ'O'Green - I take your point -- about Nitrogen being more the culprit when it comes to the term 'hot'. Similar to the way that we monitor PPM & pH for an inorganic nutrient grow, I am trying to think of precautions or steps that should be taken to monitor organic soil. I see that there are soil tests that can give level of detail on all the nutrients that are important to a plant (You shared a really nice graphic breaking down elements in another thread), but those tests seem like an extreme and certainly more complicated. Other reading has suggested that this really isn't necessary with organics; so long as you are either starting with a sound base (bagged) soil or building your living soil with a sound and balanced recipe and giving it the appropriate attention/cook time.

Having seen what happened to the first few plants I ran through Ocean Forest, I'd like to make sure my soil is sound from the onset; and then monitor to be sure that whatever amendments I might use are indeed needed before adding - Kind of like checking those PPM before feeding with nutes in an organic grow.

 

[Sour D]

Thank you all again!

@blue - Thanks for those! I will check to try and find both. That has definitely been a bottleneck for me. My local places all carry the popular Fox Farms varieties. My hydro shop has one of the Roots Organic mixes, but I think it's closer to Ocean Forest so comes with a bit of a punch out of the bag. The Coast of Maine mix mentioned is unavailable through local sources; but I see they have it on amazon for a bit of an inflated price.

@Mañ'O'Green - I take your point -- about Nitrogen being more the culprit when it comes to the term 'hot'. Similar to the way that we monitor PPM & pH for an inorganic nutrient grow, I am trying to think of precautions or steps that should be taken to monitor organic soil. I see that there are soil tests that can give level of detail on all the nutrients that are important to a plant (You shared a really nice graphic breaking down elements in another thread), but those tests seem like an extreme and certainly more complicated. Other reading has suggested that this really isn't necessary with organics; so long as you are either starting with a sound base (bagged) soil or building your living soil with a sound and balanced recipe and giving it the appropriate attention/cook time.

Having seen what happened to the first few plants I ran through Ocean Forest, I'd like to make sure my soil is sound from the onset; and then monitor to be sure that whatever amendments I might use are indeed needed before adding - Kind of like checking those PPM before feeding with nutes in an organic grow.

I get my Coast of Maine through "ship to store". No extra charge

 

[olegren]

I get my Coast of Maine through "ship to store". No extra charge

With True Value? They're showing out of stock for me just now. I'll keep checking though.

 

[Sour D]

With True Value? They're showing out of stock for me just now. I'll keep checking though.

You looking for Stonington? The owner told me if out of stock Order these three. Blend the Quoddy and Bar Harbor 50/50with a tablespoon of the STPF. Top dress with the STPF every 30 days. In theory, this will give you a water only. I'm using Quoddy/Bar Harbor and Home Grown Bokashi stuff. I am starting a grow with just the 3/no water. Guess we'll see

 

[olegren]

You looking for Stonington? The owner told me if out of stock Order these three. Blend the Quoddy and Bar Harbor 50/50with a tablespoon of the STPF. Top dress with the STPF every 30 days. In theory, this will give you a water only. I'm using Quoddy/Bar Harbor and Home Grown Bokashi stuff. I am starting a grow with just the 3/no water. Guess we'll see

I'm sorry. I could have sworn I responded to this the other day, but I must have been a little stoned and maybe not hit submit? Anyway, I was indeed looking for Stonington. It's showing on their site; but out of stock. I have been watching it for a few days. I do see the Quoddy on there but not Bar Harbor; so have been looking around for that.

I am thinking more and more about BAS 3.0. I like that it's ready to rock and roll out of the bag - And that I can have it at my door in a week or so. This would give me a few months to work, in parallel, towards developing a good compost myself that I can use for my own homegrown mix; which feels a lot more accessible after reading about many of the things y'all have shared with me. And it looks like the BAS, like any good organic, can be recharged; so it wouldn't be like throwing money away.

@Sour D - I think you mentioned that you were using BAS before. Were you happy with the way it performed in a water only grow start->finish? I see they have some pretty well regarded amendments for topping off. Realistically, I will probably start in 3-5 gallon pots this first time, but I think I could fit a couple 15's in my tent without too big a hassle. Someday. Once I can mass-produce soil. :smoking:

 

[Sour D]

I'm sorry. I could have sworn I responded to this the other day, but I must have been a little stoned and maybe not hit submit? Anyway, I was indeed looking for Stonington. It's showing on their site; but out of stock. I have been watching it for a few days. I do see the Quoddy on there but not Bar Harbor; so have been looking around for that.

I am thinking more and more about BAS 3.0. I like that it's ready to rock and roll out of the bag - And that I can have it at my door in a week or so. This would give me a few months to work, in parallel, towards developing a good compost myself that I can use for my own homegrown mix; which feels a lot more accessible after reading about many of the things y'all have shared with me. And it looks like the BAS, like any good organic, can be recharged; so it wouldn't be like throwing money away.

@Sour D - I think you mentioned that you were using BAS before. Were you happy with the way it performed in a water only grow start->finish? I see they have some pretty well regarded amendments for topping off. Realistically, I will probably start in 3-5 gallon pots this first time, but I think I could fit a couple 15's in my tent without too big a hassle. Someday. Once I can mass-produce soil. :smoking:

You might want to check with your local store to see if they can get it as it shows TV does have it.

I haven't used the BAS for water only. I have used it with the full nute lineup and it works great. It does seem a bit pricy when you put it all together and a bit of a pain with all the different measurements. So far it has given me my best yields with a couple of Thais over 4 z each.

What I like about the HGMB is price and you only need a tablespoon and a small liquid measure or syringe and you only mix 2 ingredients a week in veg and 2 every other week in bloom. I'll know better about yields when my 4 girls are done in about 3 weeks but they are looking good. Maybe my next round I'll do a side by side comparison.

 

[olegren]

You might want to check with your local store to see if they can get it as it shows TV does have it.

I haven't used the BAS for water only. I have used it with the full nute lineup and it works great. It does seem a bit pricy when you put it all together and a bit of a pain with all the different measurements. So far it has given me my best yields with a couple of Thais over 4 z each.

What I like about the HGMB is price and you only need a tablespoon and a small liquid measure or syringe and you only mix 2 ingredients a week in veg and 2 every other week in bloom. I'll know better about yields when my 4 girls are done in about 3 weeks but they are looking good. Maybe my next round I'll do a side by side comparison.

@Sour D - Wow, thank you for sharing that nute schedule. I actually thought BAS 3.0 was pretty much good to go out of the bag and shouldn't require amendment for an auto grow (beyond maybe tea and some topping with their craft blend). Also, I think I saw the grow you're talking about - with BAS & the wally world totes? Amazing results!

They have a lot of really good blogs on the BAS site, but it's kind of spread out and a little difficult to tell what applies to which product(s). That's no knock to them - Just overwhelming for a clueless newbie. I'm going to use their indoor compost guide to get that project started so that I'm ready to rock with the good stuff next Spring.

I am with you on the price point and simplicity at that point. So you're amending your Coasts of Maine (Stonington Blend or Quoddy+Bar Harbor 50 50 mix) with the HGMB only? That's awesome.

I am going to keep watching daily for the Stonington blend to see if I can catch them shipping it again. I did find Bar Harbor finally; and it looks like one of my local stores might have some in stock. If I can find Quoddy local too, I would get by super cheap ordering the lobster compost & STPF -- and some HGMB.

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[olegren]

@Sour D - I was able to find Quoddy, Bar Harbor, and the SPF. Everything is on order to ship to a local store. I got 1 ft^3 of both soils, so I should be able to at least run the 3gal I'm used to; but I'm thinking hard about a couple 5 or 7 gals. I'm stoked. :smoking:

I've been deep diving on SIPS lately, too. Autopots were on my radar for a while for many of the reasons @blue called out. (Mainly I'm lazy; but also I think my watering was never really perfect). I'm really close to pulling the trigger on a set right now. I'd rather DIY and have the option to go larger (I love the larger totes you used) for a more self-sufficient organic soil; but I don't think I have the vertical space for anything to grow much bigger anyway -- And I'm sure it would take me a while to get it built just right. I decided to go ahead and pull the trigger on an autopot setup with the 5 gallon fabric pots. It seems like I'll have to recharge soil between grows, but that will be OK.

I do have a few questions. I hope you don't mind!

• Do you know anything about the HGMB folks? Their site has been coming up empty in terms of products for a few days. Feeding guides and charts are still there; just nothing to buy.
• Since I'm mimicking your soil: Did you mix any perilite or clay in with your soil for your SIPs grows? I took for granted that this was an always thing with Cannabis in soil; but wondering if that holds true for SIPS.
• I noticed you transplanted several seedlings; but not all of them. Has your thinking evolved in one way or the other as it pertains to starting seeds in your organic mix? I've seen some organic growers indicate that their regular soil was still too hot for a seedling. More than anything, I'm curious if you've learned anything in particular about seedlings in the Stonington blend.

Again, thank you all. I have a large grow underway, and I can't stop thinking about the next one.

 

[Sour D]

@Sour D - I was able to find Quoddy, Bar Harbor, and the SPF. Everything is on order to ship to a local store. I got 1 ft^3 of both soils, so I should be able to at least run the 3gal I'm used to; but I'm thinking hard about a couple 5 or 7 gals. I'm stoked. :smoking:

I've been deep diving on SIPS lately, too. Autopots were on my radar for a while for many of the reasons @blue called out. (Mainly I'm lazy; but also I think my watering was never really perfect). I'm really close to pulling the trigger on a set right now. I'd rather DIY and have the option to go larger (I love the larger totes you used) for a more self-sufficient organic soil; but I don't think I have the vertical space for anything to grow much bigger anyway -- And I'm sure it would take me a while to get it built just right. I decided to go ahead and pull the trigger on an autopot setup with the 5 gallon fabric pots. It seems like I'll have to recharge soil between grows, but that will be OK.

I do have a few questions. I hope you don't mind!

• Do you know anything about the HGMB folks? Their site has been coming up empty in terms of products for a few days. Feeding guides and charts are still there; just nothing to buy.
• Since I'm mimicking your soil: Did you mix any perilite or clay in with your soil for your SIPs grows? I took for granted that this was an always thing with Cannabis in soil; but wondering if that holds true for SIPS.
• I noticed you transplanted several seedlings; but not all of them. Has your thinking evolved in one way or the other as it pertains to starting seeds in your organic mix? I've seen some organic growers indicate that their regular soil was still too hot for a seedling. More than anything, I'm curious if you've learned anything in particular about seedlings in the Stonington blend.

Again, thank you all. I have a large grow underway, and I can't stop thinking about the next one.

I got involved with the totes as a way to have Earthboxes that fit my spaces. You can control height by topping, lst, scrog. I haven't noticed any lag/shock from topping/lst, trimming with this way of growing-to the point of my next one I'm going to try manifolding again. My laziness would rather just trim a few large colas then a bunch of nugs.
I don't know much about the HGMB. I'm assuming they are a small "craft" company. Saw a post on Insta about them being a bit behind on getting orders out. Seems since the Rona thing, there are a lot more folks growing and shortages are a common theme. BuildaSoil was having issues but they've just moved into a larger facility and hired more people.

The COM soil has perlite in it

At this point in my journey, I prefer to plant direct to final pot to avoid any transplant shock although with this method of growing seems like that really isn't an issue. I was also having an issue with fungus gnats and the starter pots I have had a lot of holes that gave then direct access to the roots. A + to starting them in small pots is you can get the sip prepped and let them get the magic started. You can also use them to jump start your next grow while the previous one is finishing up. Since I started an outdoor vegetable garden as a cover for my indoor activities, I bought a bag of COM seed mix. If you have any peat moss, coco etc, you could mix it 50/50 with main soil for your own starter. Doesn't hurt to run it through a screen to get a light fluffy mix without any perlite. Murphys Law says a piece of perlite will find its way to sitting on top of the seeds head.

Oh! Don't forget the worms!

 

[olegren]

I got involved with the totes as a way to have Earthboxes that fit my spaces. You can control height by topping, lst, scrog. I haven't noticed any lag/shock from topping/lst, trimming with this way of growing-to the point of my next one I'm going to try manifolding again. My laziness would rather just trim a few large colas then a bunch of nugs.
I don't know much about the HGMB. I'm assuming they are a small "craft" company. Saw a post on Insta about them being a bit behind on getting orders out. Seems since the Rona thing, there are a lot more folks growing and shortages are a common theme. BuildaSoil was having issues but they've just moved into a larger facility and hired more people.

The COM soil has perlite in it

At this point in my journey, I prefer to plant direct to final pot to avoid any transplant shock although with this method of growing seems like that really isn't an issue. I was also having an issue with fungus gnats and the starter pots I have had a lot of holes that gave then direct access to the roots. A + to starting them in small pots is you can get the sip prepped and let them get the magic started. You can also use them to jump start your next grow while the previous one is finishing up. Since I started an outdoor vegetable garden as a cover for my indoor activities, I bought a bag of COM seed mix. If you have any peat moss, coco etc, you could mix it 50/50 with main soil for your own starter. Doesn't hurt to run it through a screen to get a light fluffy mix without any perlite. Murphys Law says a piece of perlite will find its way to sitting on top of the seeds head.

Oh! Don't forget the worms!

@Sour D - I'll keep an eye on HGMB. I am looking at a lot of peoples' recipes as well. Have definitely noticed shortages all around.

Thank you for that -- on COM and perilite. I was going to mix some more in, but I will see how it looks out of the bag.

I am 100% with you in that I'd rather avoid transplants. I have done them in all my previous grows, and it's never been a disaster; but it always takes a day or two off their timer. I just don't want to make things any more complicated than they need to be. Maybe I'll suffer through it, though. You make a really good point about letting the autopots run for that first couple weeks so that the good stuff is happening by the time the plants take root in there.

Thanks for mentioning worms! I have actually flip flopped on this a lot lately. Any issues sustaining them with your mix? Given that my soil is half lobster compost, I'm assuming that does a pretty good job of sustaining them for a while. Do you like to feed anything else outside your HGMB regimen? I'll have to do some reading on pot sizes & worms, too. The spring pots are 5gal, but I was thinking hard about peeling them down to around 3 gal if only to limit size.

Thank you again for the wealth of information you've shared with me!