Let’s talk organics. How newbie/stealth friendly can it be?

[olegren]

I started out wanting to go the organic route. It seemed simpler at the onset. Mix up the right stuff (or buy it, as my newbie mindset lent itself to thinking I could do a OF-only grow), keep it watered, and enjoy some of the best organic smoke I’ve ever had. I was all about it, but as you might have guessed it was not to be.

A lot about my process has changed since those first couple attempts, and I’m still yearning for something simpler than bottled nutes and the constant threat of lockout. I’ve learnt my lesson on OF but am not adverse to build a soil or possibly a more well regulated commercial offering. I have a few questions for you experienced organic growers.

I apologize in advance if some of these things have been asked before. I’m working my way through the stickies and have googled this topic into the mud. What works best for me, I have found, is engaging with other growers, and I’m thankful that so many of you are willing to share and answer questions that help new growers round out their thinking as they delve into this hobby.

So I’ll jump right in.

First and foremost: do any of you grow organically and stealth?
I read a lot of organic growers recommending teas. I have an organic grower in my family (non-cannabis) who says these teas can really stink. To be fair, I think they were talking about a specific (anaerobic) variety, but it begs the question: Is stealth indoor organic even viable? It makes sense to me that a larger pot/bed lends itself better to a living soil; at which point a 2x4 tent and the logistics of managing it might not make sense. I’m really just trying to understand if this is feasible for me. Early on, I figured I could throw 3 or 5 gallons of organic soil into a smart pot and run with it like anyone else. But does that really work? A very recent thread mentions that you can get away with smaller pots; but that you need to bring in fertilizers at some point.

What is your gardening routine like?
This one is what’s making me relent a bit. I went the bottled nutrient route because it seemed newbie friendly, but I’m quickly learning that it can be as complicated as I make it. (And I can complicate shit hard). Yes, I can feed my plants everything they need, but I need to keep a vigilant eye on the details of what’s going in, what’s coming out, and troubleshoot accordingly. The effort has taught me a lot, but it also eats a ton of time. In that way, organic gardening seems suspiciously straightforward from the outside looking in. To me, it sounds a lot like building a good base, cultivating/cooking it, and then maintaining it with periodic supplements (teas) and keeping it watered. Is this accurate? Am I over simplifying? Do you ever find yourselves chasing runaway PH or inexplicably skyrocketing PPM? Are there other gotchas that you run into with organic soils?

I know I have more questions, but I’ll save the rest for another day. Thanks for reading along if you made it this far, and I sincerely appreciate any wisdom you might share. If any others eyeballing organic grows want to jump in and pose questions, please do not hesitate. This is a topic that has been interesting to me since I found my way to this hobby, and I look forward to the discussion.

 

[blue]

Hi Hi! ^_^

I'm Blue and have been accused of "eco-growing" in my time. This is a nice way of saying i put in minimal effort .. and that is a grow style i've been developing since my time became too Squeeezed to go through all of the Phing and ECing and meters and concoctions that used to enjoy (but no longer have the time for)

My mission was to make things as easy as possible and spend as little time with the plants as possible. I think i got a whole grow down to a couple of hours with the plants. (over 8-10 weeks)

There is system called Biotabs which is worth looking into .. I tried that. It's not perfect, and you'll still need to hand water for the first 20 days (BTW .. This is all down to the assumption that you'll be able to use an Autopot). AND i use Biobizz Lightmix Soil.

The organic route with "Just" Biotabs was a little lacklustre . the buds were a bit airy and undeveloped.
Trying again with a more involved full Biotabs line up & soil setup ... AND adding micro nutes and organic PK (top watering) when needed, worked better - but required more time.

My current grow, i'm going back to basics .. saving some time with a VERY simple lineup. (Bottled nutes though) Canna Start (for the 1st 20 days) , Canna Vega (for aoout another 20 days) and then Canna Flores (along with some PK) ... ok I appreciate its starting to sound more complicated than it is.

So with my current grow .. following the hand watering for 20 days with canna start (2/3 strength) and the leaves reaching the sides of the pot. I mix up 10 litres of water with 3/4 stregnth Canna Vega .. and pour it in the autopot rez and leave. Come back in a few days to check the rez.

My water is just tap water (not hard city water) .. no PH down ... No measuring.

You only need seconds to check the Rez and throwing 20ml into a 5 litre water bottle and shaking doesnt take much time.

Keep doing that until day 40 when you'll probably want to switch to Canna Flores (flowering) instead of Vega. Just do the same as with the vega.

10 days on (or so ... PK addition is tough one to call .. i use when buds are forming but not quite joined up yet) .. few ml of PK in the 5 litre bottle (shake shae shake) and then add the 20ml of Flores into bottle (shake shake shake) ... and into the rez it goes.

Carry on the last step until it's harvest time.

I think that covers my current eco-grow (well economy on time) .. it's still in the last phases so you're welcome to watch and join in, see how it ends up. I'm pretty hopeful that this will be one of the easiest yet!!

Hope thies helps!
Blue ^_^

 

[Sour D]

I grow in sips and recently started using Homegrown Microbe Bokashi https://www.homegrownbokashi.com/ Very simple formulas, good price and so far liking the results. I was using BuildASoil, but it is looking like HGB will give me just as good results. Along with it I'm using Coast of Maine Stonington soil and Lobster Compost. You can get it at True Value ship to nstore for free

 

[Sour D]

Check Some of
TxRebel/Mark
grows as he uses sips as well as BAS and HGB

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

@Proph is an organic grower. What it comes down to is the quality of your Living Organic Soil and a big enough pot. You are not going to make good soil in a week or two it takes time. if you can accommodate one of these you could be well on your way in 3 - 6 months to a year. You need a minimum 5 gallon pot I would go 7 gallon pot to do a water only grow. Proph has this dialed in with a perpetual grow. With one of theses dual chamber composters you can have enough soil for two or 3 pots in various stages of readiness. You can disguise it by planting a tomato plant in a pot by it. No one will even think twice about it even if you let the tomato die

As far as stealth is concerned good soil has no offending odors and you should be running a filter can on your exhaust already?

 

[Proph]

I started out wanting to go the organic route. It seemed simpler at the onset. Mix up the right stuff (or buy it, as my newbie mindset lent itself to thinking I could do a OF-only grow), keep it watered, and enjoy some of the best organic smoke I’ve ever had. I was all about it, but as you might have guessed it was not to be.

A lot about my process has changed since those first couple attempts, and I’m still yearning for something simpler than bottled nutes and the constant threat of lockout. I’ve learnt my lesson on OF but am not adverse to build a soil or possibly a more well regulated commercial offering. I have a few questions for you experienced organic growers.

I apologize in advance if some of these things have been asked before. I’m working my way through the stickies and have googled this topic into the mud. What works best for me, I have found, is engaging with other growers, and I’m thankful that so many of you are willing to share and answer questions that help new growers round out their thinking as they delve into this hobby.

So I’ll jump right in.

First and foremost: do any of you grow organically and stealth?
I read a lot of organic growers recommending teas. I have an organic grower in my family (non-cannabis) who says these teas can really stink. To be fair, I think they were talking about a specific (anaerobic) variety, but it begs the question: Is stealth indoor organic even viable? It makes sense to me that a larger pot/bed lends itself better to a living soil; at which point a 2x4 tent and the logistics of managing it might not make sense. I’m really just trying to understand if this is feasible for me. Early on, I figured I could throw 3 or 5 gallons of organic soil into a smart pot and run with it like anyone else. But does that really work? A very recent thread mentions that you can get away with smaller pots; but that you need to bring in fertilizers at some point.

What is your gardening routine like?
This one is what’s making me relent a bit. I went the bottled nutrient route because it seemed newbie friendly, but I’m quickly learning that it can be as complicated as I make it. (And I can complicate shit hard). Yes, I can feed my plants everything they need, but I need to keep a vigilant eye on the details of what’s going in, what’s coming out, and troubleshoot accordingly. The effort has taught me a lot, but it also eats a ton of time. In that way, organic gardening seems suspiciously straightforward from the outside looking in. To me, it sounds a lot like building a good base, cultivating/cooking it, and then maintaining it with periodic supplements (teas) and keeping it watered. Is this accurate? Am I over simplifying? Do you ever find yourselves chasing runaway PH or inexplicably skyrocketing PPM? Are there other gotchas that you run into with organic soils?

I know I have more questions, but I’ll save the rest for another day. Thanks for reading along if you made it this far, and I sincerely appreciate any wisdom you might share. If any others eyeballing organic grows want to jump in and pose questions, please do not hesitate. This is a topic that has been interesting to me since I found my way to this hobby, and I look forward to the discussion.

Your head is in the right place and you are walking in the right direction! That's a huge win in itself, lol. One of the first things to consider when deciding to grow organic, is the method. You can grow no-till, living organic soil style (usually grown with water only and in bigger pots)... Or just basic organic, which is using organic soil and dry amendments to feed the soil as needed (usually done in 3-5 gallon pots).. The soil in 3-5 gallon pots will run out of its organic food source at some point because the pot will become filled more with roots than soil. This is where the top dressing with dry amendments comes into play. If you are growing autos, I'd say that the top dress should be done once around the start of flower, if needed. Photo periods are a little different.

My grows are fed only water and compost teas. I grow both no till ( in two 15 gal pots) and regular ole organic in 3-5 gallon fabric pots... Yes, compost teas stink. I mean, it's compost, lol. But it doesn't stink up the neighborhood or house or anything. And that's only really an issue if you are making it yourself. I was put on to this product about a yr ago by a mentor of mine and haven't looked back. It's a concentrated super compost tea. Just add 2oz per gallon.. Or 1 oz per gallon and a spoon full of molasses once every two weeks or so and you've got an amazing food/biology source. It's like $17 for half gallon.

You're not over thinking it yet! You are asking the right kind of questions to gather information and views of others. The one real question that you can't forget to ask is one that you ask yourself... And that question is "what grow style best fits me and my goals?" Adjust your garden to your wants and skill set... If you want to grow no till style in bigger pots because you don't want to deal with recycling soil, do it. If you only have space for small pots but want to grow organic without bottles, do that.

Which ever method or direction you choose, we have people on site that have been there and done that, and will help you reach the finish line regardless!

 

[olegren]

@blue -- Thank you very much for sharing all of these details! I have read through a few of your grow threads historically and am relived to hear you felt the same sense of frustration I sometimes do when wrangling all the variables of non-organic fertilizers! You've grown some killer looking buds, and that Sweet Trainwreck is looking like a wild ride already.

All that to say: I first heard about Biobizz via Mephisto's growing guide. I immediately started looking into them. Unfortunately, I am on the wrong side of the pond; and while I can get the tabs, the soil seems awful difficult to find anywhere over here. I have heard of good analogues though that are more accessible stateside: Roots Organic, Build-A-Soil, and Coast of Maine and a few others I've certainly forgotten!

It's interesting that you bring up autopots. I'm not convinced I have watering down to an art form, but I don't mind that piece so much since it gives me an excuse to look in on them. But I do think a lot about trying them out since it would take some of the variables out of the equation and make me less likely to do them harm.

I don't mind the idea of mixing in some nutes. I think at this point I'm just paranoid of lockout since I've run into it recently. And, as a relatively new grower, it's way too easy to dig yourself into a hole trying to fix things before they're really problems. I'm absolutely going to incorporate some of this into my next run, so thank you very much for chiming in - And I am eagerly watching the finish of that sweet trainwreck!


@Sour D -- This is the first time I've heard of HMB, but their website has had me captivated for a good hour out of the day. It looks like they have a very thorough system, and I love how well documented their supplements are. I'm going to look into some of that soil at my local True Value. I didn't realize they carried it! I've heard this brand come up a few times; but most of my typical haunts didn't have it. Thank you very much for sharing!


@Mañ'O'Green It's so funny that you mention disguising with a tomato plant. When I got my little tent hobby grow going, I decided to throw together a few plants outside for the sake of justifying carrying bags of soil and other random stuff in -- You know, for appearances. I germinated 2x Sour Stomper, 2x Determinate Tomatoes, and 2x Determinate Cucumbers; with the intent of throwing the latter four out in 10 gallon pots on my deck. I ended up with one cucumber. The other cuke never quite made it past early seedling stage, and the tomatoes straight up refused to pop. I have a bit of a gardening background but not with potted plants, so I guess I did something wrong or neglected them. Either way, they're still out there as my decoys. Good call!

Anyway, this home-baked soil is my ultimate goal. I'm out in the country. I have plenty of organic scraps and grew up with compost piles all around. I'd love to put that stuff to use instead of throwing it out, and if it saves me having to buy inferior soil that would be an added bonus. It takes planning though, but I like the idea of starting to cook something now so that I can take advantage of it in 6-8 months. I do feel comfortable with the idea of harvesting that and then treating it to get pH in the right zone before planting.

As far as odors, it's all good! I feel pretty good about that bit; was really just worried that cooking up some stanky tea might prompt my wife to drop the hammer on my project.


@Proph - Thank you for your kind words and reassurance! It's daunting. Several of you have helped me with my lockout issues (among others), though, and I love growing. Grew up helping out with the garden and very interested in it, lost touch with that for a couple decades, and now enamored. It's a big plus that I can become self-sufficient with quality herb, but that's only a part of it.

I started out wanting to go that basic organic route. I found a guide on another forum that prescribed OF with top dressing from start to finish. The guy made it look super easy. My mileage varied. A lot of people knock the soil, so I've kind of blamed it - But I was doing a lot wrong. So I want to poise myself to do another organic grow the right way.

Conceptually, I think I understand what's going on: You develop an ecosystem of microbes that interact and provide the nutrients so that you don't have to supply them directly in a chemical form. This is more natural for the plant, letting it take up what it wants, with the added bonus of no salt build up since it's all happening organically and on site. But I know that organic soils can be too 'hot'; which I've kind of inferred means too acidic. Is this similar to PPM being out-of-whack? Or, in that scenario with organic, is it really as simple as something like dolomite lime to raise pH into an optimal range at which point things resume working as they should?

I had no idea you could buy pre-brewed/concentrated teas. I'm not sure how I missed that! I have been reading about steeping at home and thinking this shit will get me kicked right out of the house! So this idea of buying a pre-made concentrate and mixing it is awesome!

That aforementioned family member is all about some no till, and I've been stalking a couple really impressive no-till grows. I think those are beyond what I can do at this point. If my state ever wakes up, I'd jump at the opportunity. That is the most interesting approach if you ask me, but those logistics are complicated.

In the interim, with all the insights shared here, I have some really good next steps and things to research while I finish this grow and plan the next one. I'm going to find a good base soil and deep dive on some of these amendment candidates. Y'all have inspired new questions, but I'll try digging around a bit before I take up more of your time with those. More later - I am sure!

Again, thank you all.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Well ok then Too "Hot" is generally a reference to too much Nitrogen in the soil and it will 'Burn" the plant but may also mean too much fertilizer all together. PH is the acid vs alkaline thing.

 

[hecno]

G'day @olegren Welcome to the world of organic growing . All of the above members have given you the path to take , and being in the country you will have a lot of inputs around you that can be used ,

 

[blue]

@blue -- Thank you very much for sharing all of these details! I have read through a few of your grow threads historically and am relived to hear you felt the same sense of frustration I sometimes do when wrangling all the variables of non-organic fertilizers! You've grown some killer looking buds, and that Sweet Trainwreck is looking like a wild ride already.

All that to say: I first heard about Biobizz via Mephisto's growing guide. I immediately started looking into them. Unfortunately, I am on the wrong side of the pond; and while I can get the tabs, the soil seems awful difficult to find anywhere over here. I have heard of good analogues though that are more accessible stateside: Roots Organic, Build-A-Soil, and Coast of Maine and a few others I've certainly forgotten!

It's interesting that you bring up autopots. I'm not convinced I have watering down to an art form, but I don't mind that piece so much since it gives me an excuse to look in on them. But I do think a lot about trying them out since it would take some of the variables out of the equation and make me less likely to do them harm.

I don't mind the idea of mixing in some nutes. I think at this point I'm just paranoid of lockout since I've run into it recently. And, as a relatively new grower, it's way too easy to dig yourself into a hole trying to fix things before they're really problems. I'm absolutely going to incorporate some of this into my next run, so thank you very much for chiming in - And I am eagerly watching the finish of that sweet trainwreck!

It's my pleasure buddy! Hit me up if you need anything!
Also .. I read the rest of your replies .. but if you do decide to try another pre-made soil .. other good ones IMO are Plagron Lightmix and Canna make a good soil too.

You'll love an autopot if you got space (my rez is outside the tent) .. I find it does a better job at watering than i do

Good luck with the next grow!!