Is foam in tea brewing "bro science"?

Perhaps to get to better consistency of microbial content and culturing, tea brewers should use a consistent optimized high potency starter culture. But this might be contrary to the DIY culture that seems to dominate making and using teas, likely needing to come from a commercial source ideally meeting biopharmaceutical or at least food-grade manufacturing standards.
 
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Linda Chalker Scott has made a career out of bashing compost teas. She will never change her mind because her academic standing depends on it. That being said, she's not totally wrong, but she is certainly not right.

Brew a batch of compost tea and look at it under the microscope. It's undeniable that it increasing microbial activity and biomass. That's not even worth trying to argue.

The challenge with compost tea studies is that every batch is different. How do you control for a variable that will change every batch? You can't. I can use the same inputs and change just the brewing length or temperature or elevation, or shoot even brew two brews side by side identical and they will end up different. And yes, I did all this using a phase contrast microscope for years.

Luke at Compost Tea Lab has gathered a bunch of trials using compost tea. I have issues with these results showing positive results as much as I do with the ones that showed no difference vs control. I just don't believe you can make any assumptions or determinations from the trials.

So if you want to be an armchair warrior then I'd say stick with what the WSU extension service has to say. I know at one point DDT was considered safe and we still can go buy glyphosate at our local garden centers. In those cases, it was a matter of science catching up with agronomic practices, but in this instance I don't think we will ever get there due to the issues with compost tea I listed above.

If you're genuinely curious and want to see if it works or not, I would suggest getting or making a good brewer. Tim Wilson has an air lift design that is both cheap and effective. Add good inputs and then run a trial in your garden. If you get a good result, then we can conclude that compost tea worked in your garden and it may be a useful tool for you. If nothing happens, then you can ditch it and never look back.

Hope that helps.
I've noticed a big change in Root development and plant growth since I started brewing.
Anecdotal yes but I'm sticking with it.
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Perhaps to get to better consistency of microbial content and culturing, tea brewers should use a consistent optimized high potency starter culture. But this might be contrary to the DIY culture that seems to dominate making and using teas, likely needing to come from a commercial source ideally meeting biopharmaceutical or at least food-grade manufacturing standards.
I did a video showing what happens when you brew Mammoth P, you can check it out on youtube if you search that term.

"Compost" tea is naturally going to be highly variable. Nutrient cycling and soil biology is a highly complex relationship and I don't know we will ever fully be able to understand it. Research shows how much it can change just with a hydrologic event. That will dramatically change the populations of microbes and even the ratio between fungi and bacteria.

If someone wanted to brew up specifically cultured microbes with a known soil/plant interaction, then you could control variables and measure results.
 
I used teas for 3 years. Easy to burn plants if you brew too long. That’s why I just started incorporating the tea ingredients into my soil. My two batches of soil are 4.5 years old and get to sit and compost in tumblers for 9 months between grows. Makes a big difference if amendments are given time and right conditions to decompose.
 
It seems the only thing you can say for certain is that there are microbes in the tea.
I don't see what the big deal is. Anywhere you might apply them is already colonized with something.

As for the Linda thing, she has made a career as a professor at WSU, she tackles garden myths as a side project. I doubt her career and standing hinge on her stance on compost tea. You are projecting, from my perspective you are the only one who has anything to lose, as you have a financial interest in this.
 
Linda Chalker Scott has made a career out of bashing compost teas. She will never change her mind because her academic standing depends on it. That being said, she's not totally wrong, but she is certainly not right.

Brew a batch of compost tea and look at it under the microscope. It's undeniable that it increasing microbial activity and biomass. That's not even worth trying to argue.

Reply: you know there exist actual methods for determining microbe populations. You can't just look at stuff under a microscope...
Which method did you use by the way?

The challenge with compost tea studies is that every batch is different. How do you control for a variable that will change every batch? You can't. I can use the same inputs and change just the brewing length or temperature or elevation, or shoot even brew two brews side by side identical and they will end up different. And yes, I did all this using a phase contrast microscope for years.

Reply: coincidentally this is also one of the problems with compost tea usage.
Owning a microscope makes you practically a microbiologist. Do you know what organisms are growing? Do you know how to determine their population. It is worth noting that harmful organisms like e. Coli can grow in your tea.

Luke at Compost Tea Lab has gathered a bunch of trials using compost tea. I have issues with these results showing positive results as much as I do with the ones that showed no difference vs control. I just don't believe you can make any assumptions or determinations from the trials.

Reply: yet you're willing to sell this stuff.

So if you want to be an armchair warrior then I'd say stick with what the WSU extension service has to say. I know at one point DDT was considered safe and we still can go buy glyphosate at our local garden centers. In those cases, it was a matter of science catching up with agronomic practices, but in this instance I don't think we will ever get there due to the issues with compost tea I listed above.

Reply: name calling, nice. I will always defer to .edu vs. .com.
Glyphosate is a consistent, formulated product. Comparing it to compost tea is a case of false equivalency.


If you're genuinely curious and want to see if it works or not, I would suggest getting or making a good brewer. Tim Wilson has an air lift design that is both cheap and effective. Add good inputs and then run a trial in your garden. If you get a good result, then we can conclude that compost tea worked in your garden and it may be a useful tool for you. If nothing happens, then you can ditch it and never look back.

I'm not buying anything.
We can't conclude anything from the experiment you suggested.
I'd need clones, a control group. The ability to identify and account for all the variables. (Good luck with that outdoors) the experiment would also need to be replicable to have any meaning. Three replications seems to be the minimum, but as you've already stated, there is so much variability between batches of tea, that it really wouldn't be that same experiment.

Hope that helps.

Reply: it does not.
 
It seems the only thing you can say for certain is that there are microbes in the tea.
I don't see what the big deal is. Anywhere you might apply them is already colonized with something.

As for the Linda thing, she has made a career as a professor at WSU, she tackles garden myths as a side project. I doubt her career and standing hinge on her stance on compost tea. You are projecting, from my perspective you are the only one who has anything to lose, as you have a financial interest in this.
It sounds like you have already made up your mind so I don’t think continuing this conversation has much value. I know Linda and have spoken at talks with her. She’s gets more wrong than you may relativize and her history with Elaine Ingham is pretty well documented.
If you don’t want to use compost tea, then don’t. It’s really that simple. But one link to an article does not make you right. There is a ton of research showing how microbial inoculation of soils can change microbial populations in soil and also research on microbial persistence.
I’m not trying to sell you anything. Just don’t want folks to think it’s as black and white as you seem to think it is.
 
Just tell me how you determined microbial population?
 
Did you even read my long reply?
 
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