Ionic Silver VS Colloidal Silver

[Egzoset]

Salutations Alaskan1,

My meter stops way before the preferred 40 ppm...

Maybe there's some plausible explanation somewhere, for exemple:

Making Colloidal Silver

« The Total PPM of your colloidal silver is the sum of the Ionic PPM which you can measure but can't see, and the Particle PPM which you can see but can't measure. »​

That's the sort of confusion i'd expect having an uncontrolled electrolysis response curve anyway...

More hint to be found here:

Best You Can Get - Colloidal Silver Generator​

At some point it mentions a current density equal to 1 mA/in² with other details. That should help to limit uncertainty from particle size variance which itself should be expected during uncontrolled electrolysis...

Good day, have fun!!

 

[Alaskan1]

Thanks for the info! Very interesting. I just want my darned meter to read higher the longer I leave the current attached. It's interesting others have found the meters stop reading higher after about 20 ppm. So basically, I have a meter that is useless, and I'm just guessing the ppm on the CS. My friend just makes his for several hours and it works, so I should do what he does, I guess. It just bothers me that I don't know the actual ppm. Anyway, thank you very much for the info.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Alaskan1,

So basically, I have a meter that is useless...

M'well, according to previously quoted documentation your digital reader probably doesn't read everything but i'd still have to point out it hardly sounds coherent to plan uncontrolled electrolysis and yet somehow keep expecting meaningful digital results anyway. It's like throwing a dice in a pond to make a bet...

In the begining distilled water behaves more as an electric isolator than a conductor and once it started loading with colloïdal silver it will turn conductive gradually. That's what my asymptotic curve was meant to illustrate. In electrolysis particle size varies with current density, which implies the "simple" 3-batteries process is bound to induce wild size variance, including sludge interference on top of it, etc., because said current density will vary from next-to-nil to excessive during a single unipolar session. In other words lack of control over particle size should naturally reflect the lack of initial precaution.



IMO a meter might prove more useful once the matter of current density is managed (predictably) properly. So i dunno for sure if it's really useless so far but i'd attempt to avoid pouring in more variables than actually necessary, hence my preference to avoid inducing more cahos during an experimentation... The only chaos i'd require being physical agitation of the CS water as it builds up.

So far it seems like a good idea to target a current of 1.6 mA or 1 mA per square inch of donor surface using 1" (dia.) silver coins, just as those exactly:

According to my readings periodic polarity reversal helps with sludge accumulation, so period/frequency could be 1 other variable while i figure there's also inter-electrode distance and water volume. Which is plenty of factors as it is since i counted 4 probable parameter candidates:

1) Current density per donor surface
2) Polarity reversal period/frequency
3) Inter-electrode distance
4) Water volume​

Lets also keep in mind a CS generator needs its water to be agitated using some magnetic agitator, heat convection or more simply just air bubbles... Which is more unknown items to be poured into the grand equation i guess!

Then i'd reason the Tyndall effect may provide some last hint, or perhaps pure chronometer guessing would suffice (with accumulating experience)...

...I'm just guessing the ppm...

...and particle size. So you may as well need to manage this later variable and hence constant "low-current" (1.6 mA) from a "high-voltage" source (in the range 36 ~ 70 Volts) would seem appropriate. Which in turn is more demanding, etc.

...

Good day, have fun!

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Using a TDS meter, you definitely do not have to go past 20ppm to get male flowers forming. Just spray 2 times daily all over the plant, and it will "flip" eventually. If you start once flowering has begun, then it can take significantly longer than if the treatment is started at the first signs of female preflowers.

Personally, I don't see a point in going over 20ppm, because it is mild enough to not damage the plant too much (if at all), and still works.

Also, the solution, be it colloidal or ionic, can work both when clear, and amber. A lot of times, the solution will be clear, but turn amber over hours-days depending on how it was made, and if it was stored in improper conditions (mainly sunlight). The laser beam should have the smallest possible sparkles, to the point where it is more of a "creamy" beam vs one that looks like you sprinkled glitter into it. When you are done making your solution, strain it twice through unbleached coffee filters, and it should remove most of the much larger particles (usually found clinging to one of the electrodes). The end result shouldn't appear to have anything floating in it, until you shine a beam through it.

 

[Alaskan1]

Thanks Egzoset. All very interesting stuff, and somewhat complicated it sounds. Still, for me, it's some distilled water in a glass, a 9 volt battery, alligator clips and wire, and two silver wires. I did switch to just one battery, and there is less sludgy build up. At 20 ppm on my meter I'm unhooking the battery and spraying on the growth sites. And look! It looks like I have some pollen sacks started! Thanks for the education Egzoset.

 

[Alaskan1]

Using a TDS meter, you definitely do not have to go past 20ppm to get male flowers forming. Just spray 2 times daily all over the plant, and it will "flip" eventually. If you start once flowering has begun, then it can take significantly longer than if the treatment is started at the first signs of female preflowers.

Personally, I don't see a point in going over 20ppm, because it is mild enough to not damage the plant too much (if at all), and still works.

Also, the solution, be it colloidal or ionic, can work both when clear, and amber. A lot of times, the solution will be clear, but turn amber over hours-days depending on how it was made, and if it was stored in improper conditions (mainly sunlight). The laser beam should have the smallest possible sparkles, to the point where it is more of a "creamy" beam vs one that looks like you sprinkled glitter into it. When you are done making your solution, strain it twice through unbleached coffee filters, and it should remove most of the much larger particles (usually found clinging to one of the electrodes). The end result shouldn't appear to have anything floating in it, until you shine a beam through it.

Thanks! Any reason I should filter the liquid though? It seems to be working. Looks like the plant is starting to flip. Hey, I've read some growers spray the whole plant, and others just the growth sites. Any thoughts/experience about this?

I'm bummed it's taking so long to get pollen. I'm definitely going to have to plant one I'm flipping much earlier than the pollen-receiving female plant. Otherwise there won't be enough time left for the seeds to mature.

I've got a friend that sprays just one branch (making sure not to get any spray on other branches), and pollinates the same plant with it's own pollen. Anyone else tried that???

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations Alaskan1,

...interesting stuff... ... Thanks for the education Egzoset.

For education it's the various referenced sources we must express gratitude to, yet so far it's only entertainment IMO: some evaluation has yet to be performed, independently.

M'well, the horse will drink when it wants to...

Good day, have fun!!

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Thanks! Any reason I should filter the liquid though? It seems to be working. Looks like the plant is starting to flip. Hey, I've read some growers spray the whole plant, and others just the growth sites. Any thoughts/experience about this?

I'm bummed it's taking so long to get pollen. I'm definitely going to have to plant one I'm flipping much earlier than the pollen-receiving female plant. Otherwise there won't be enough time left for the seeds to mature.

I've got a friend that sprays just one branch (making sure not to get any spray on other branches), and pollinates the same plant with it's own pollen. Anyone else tried that???

Filtering the final suspension (liquid) is a good idea because the larger particles that are just floating around can build up on the plant's surface and possibly cause it to burn/suffocate. The particles that work, are the ones that are small enough to permeate the plant's cell walls.

It does take a while to get pollen. That's why people suggest starting the plant that you want to reverse a few weeks sooner than the female(s) you want to pollinate, so you can have time to have viable pollen by the time the females are in full flower.
I recommend letting the pollen sacs start to open on the plant, before removing them with tweezers. If they are mature, they should almost fall off when touched. If you take off closed pollen sacs, you might not get any viable pollen, especially since they contain a lot of moisture which can ruin the pollen.

In regards to spraying the whole plant vs just a branch, both methods work. In terms of the seed quality, both methods will give you the same results. I don't know for a fact if the unsprayed, unaffected buds on a plant that had one branch sprayed are safe for consumption, but a lot of people on here say they aren't. As with most CS information, you'll find answers ranging from one extreme to the other and everywhere in between.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations EverythingsHazy,

I don't know for a fact if the unsprayed, unaffected buds on a plant that had one branch sprayed are safe for consumption, but a lot of people on here say they aren't.

Better safe than sorry is the usual answer, yes. What if CS sprays are washed away after 6 minutes? Or 10, or 12?... Because it's possible CD sprays can do more than only "reverse" females.

Which goes back to the rate of absorption in vegetal tissue and i figure someday somebody will be curious enough to find out, sometime, somewhere. Anyone seeking challenges, somehow??

Good day, have fun!

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Salutations EverythingsHazy,



Better safe than sorry is the usual answer, yes. What if CS sprays are washed away after 6 minutes? Or 10, or 12?... Because it's possible CD sprays can do more than only "reverse" females.

Which goes back to the rate of absorption in vegetal tissue and i figure someday somebody will be curious enough to find out, sometime, somewhere. Anyone seeking challenges, somehow??

Good day, have fun!

What I wonder about this issue, is how long it takes for the cs particles in the plant to be metabolized or otherwise removed. If you stop spraying a single branch a month or two before you harvest the plant, and that branch is the only one that made a pollen sacs, then the other branches probably didn't have that much silver in them to begin with, and this whole time whatever silver they did contain, was probably being used up and gotten rid of anyway. More scientific research needs to be done to be sure, though.

According to the company rep who posted on another forum, Tiresia's Mist doesn't make the other in sprayed buds unsafe, and they say testing was done. Not sure how true that is, but that's what I was told when I asked them.