Indoor HELP drooping lower leaves...

Glad your plants are doing better, leds work great but you need to be sure you have good intensity, and your temps sounded low. In the summer you'd love that led with a second led to give plenty of intensity for your space, and you get a better mix of color that way too.

I'm sure that Jamaican is a jungle mamma that loves the warmth and intensity of the new light. :jointman:
I agree with FullDuplex that lighting was probably the issue, as we have been discussing recently.

As far as it looking like pistils only, yeah that can happen too, my Muay Thai plant looked like that but I still got close to 9 oz off her so don't worry about it, she's just a different strain. Don't overdo the nutes here at the end and you'll end up with a fine smoke I'm sure. Looking forward to hearing your impressions of the smoke next month.
 
hey everyone. thnks again for all the help.
to full duplex
After reading through this, i still think that lighting was the main issue here. If i remember correctly leaf progression (1,3,5,7,9) was related to the amount of the light the plant was getting. It would explain the lower droopy foliage as well. I didnt read to great detail just looked at the plants and read here and there to see what was going on and to get the idea of the problem.

You may have mentioned this here but what was the light setup on the grow?
yes, it seems you were right and others, about not enough light.

some updates on my jamaican berry.
i recently swapped out my LED for a 400w hps. she seems to really be liking that, and has since then started realy adding on with the budding. yay.
however im experiencing a new issue now.
due to the issue of not having enough light, and seemingly causing the plant to be very leafy, and since recently adding more light,
im having issues with a bunch of small bud sights hidden underneath the canopy, covered in leaves that arent getting any light. those lower hidden buds are pretty airy and spaced out, and im not sure what to do with them since it seems to be making everything really messy and overgrown.
is it ok if i take off those branches with the small buds that are under the canopy to give the plant more breathing space?
or could it cause more trouble than good right now, that theres only around 2-4 weeks left of flower?
what dyou all think?


ALSO ON A SECOND NOTE:
im considering getting more light for the room, (for the future) since im just borrowing the 400wHPS.
i can buy another 200W LED, to add to my current 180W led.
or for a bit less, i can get a 250w HPS, and use it in hybrid with my LED.
any opinions?
 
Hey happyjoy --

Merry Christmas to you.

In an effort to answer your questions -- first, as far as trimming lower growth that is shaded out/unproductive...it would have been ideal to trim those lower bud sites some weeks back already. You're getting close to the finish now, I think you could still trim some of that off if it's really weak, a little at a time not all at once, or leave it at this point for joint rolling or butter, etc.. It's better though to do any trimming earlier in the cycle. Some people remove a few fan leaves if it will allow light to penetrate to the lower branches but there are differing opinions about this. Without seeing a picture of the plant, it's hard to recommend doing one thing or another.

As far as a new light, it's a complicated question....

We assume it is winter-time where you are, hence temps have been lower. Will you also grow during the spring and summer? If so, an led light may be a better choice. It depends what you expect temps to be like in the summer. Even a 250W hps will produce some heat, less than the 400 of course. Leds may cost a bit more up front, but you will slowly save the money back in terms of less electricity usage, and no need to replace bulbs every year like you would with the hps.

Also depends on the brand/model of led you're looking at buying. Some of the cheaper models are not so good. You can also read/post in the led section if you're looking at an unfamiliar led model. Mars Hydro is a site sponsor and makes good panels for the price. I used one of their old style panels with the 3w chips and liked it very much but they are hard to find anymore. The newer "old style" panels they make with the 5w chips seemed to produce more of a bluish light (instead of red), and the buds underneath it did not develop as well as the other areas of my tent, so I was disappointed with it but it was very low priced so I got what I paid for. I have no idea if they still sell these either. Their "Reflector" series lights get very good reviews here and run around $165 for a 300w style panel (that draws about 180w power?).

And as far as temperature, if two leds didn't get you up to at least 75 degrees in the grow space, you could also consider putting in a couple small bulbs of cfl to add heat as well as additional spectrum, wouldn't cost too much and again would last a long time.

I hope this is helpful to you. We do want to hear how your grow finishes out, good luck bro
 
Hey happyjoy --

Merry Christmas to you.

In an effort to answer your questions -- first, as far as trimming lower growth that is shaded out/unproductive...it would have been ideal to trim those lower bud sites some weeks back already. You're getting close to the finish now, I think you could still trim some of that off if it's really weak, a little at a time not all at once, or leave it at this point for joint rolling or butter, etc.. It's better though to do any trimming earlier in the cycle. Some people remove a few fan leaves if it will allow light to penetrate to the lower branches but there are differing opinions about this. Without seeing a picture of the plant, it's hard to recommend doing one thing or another.

As far as a new light, it's a complicated question....

We assume it is winter-time where you are, hence temps have been lower. Will you also grow during the spring and summer? If so, an led light may be a better choice. It depends what you expect temps to be like in the summer. Even a 250W hps will produce some heat, less than the 400 of course. Leds may cost a bit more up front, but you will slowly save the money back in terms of less electricity usage, and no need to replace bulbs every year like you would with the hps.

Also depends on the brand/model of led you're looking at buying. Some of the cheaper models are not so good. You can also read/post in the led section if you're looking at an unfamiliar led model. Mars Hydro is a site sponsor and makes good panels for the price. I used one of their old style panels with the 3w chips and liked it very much but they are hard to find anymore. The newer "old style" panels they make with the 5w chips seemed to produce more of a bluish light (instead of red), and the buds underneath it did not develop as well as the other areas of my tent, so I was disappointed with it but it was very low priced so I got what I paid for. I have no idea if they still sell these either. Their "Reflector" series lights get very good reviews here and run around $165 for a 300w style panel (that draws about 180w power?).

And as far as temperature, if two leds didn't get you up to at least 75 degrees in the grow space, you could also consider putting in a couple small bulbs of cfl to add heat as well as additional spectrum, wouldn't cost too much and again would last a long time.

I hope this is helpful to you. We do want to hear how your grow finishes out, good luck bro
Thnks so mich to everyone for all the advice.
I ended up avtually cuttig out all the bushy leagy overgrowth of the jamaican berry yesterday. Even though it might not help at all, but jm really happy i did. I should have done it weeks ago, but im still new and learning. I was too agraid to cut off anything that had a potential. However the plant ended ip becoming a crazy wild overgrown bush (im guessing due to the weak lighting i had during initial flowering


The led ive been using, is indeed a marshydro 96x3 reflecotr
Ive been consideing buying another one, but they onlh sell them with 5w diodes now(96x5)
So im torn betweenne of those, and a marsII 700, or maybe a 250w hps to combine with my LEd.
Ill probly need to upgrde my exhaust fan, if i wanna run a 250hps with my led in the summer, but thats fine

Ive seen so many mixed reviews about led vs hps. I just want the best quality buds and dont care too much about the quantity. But i dont wanna buy another marahydro led, and just to find myself lookig to upgrade next year for something better... However if runnin two led pannels is ideal, (180w draw, + 220w draw) over the hps for quality, i would buy it in a second.
For some reason i feel more comforted adding an hps since hps is so mich more proven....
After having under lighting issues with my 96x3 on the jamaican berry (since i had innsuficient light in this case), im afrai ofninvesting in another light and having contknued poor results. I dont wanna waste monwy on another led and find out later that incould have grown mich better bud with an hps combo instead
The 96x3 seemed to have really poor penetration. But since all theor new leds are 5w perhaps thats improved
Which light model gave u problems?
 
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i use a 96x3 cranked up to 11 in a 2x4 cupboard,it works a treat for me.
is your light up high or what size footprint you trying to cover ?
I think you might be too quick to blame the led.
 
i use a 96x3 cranked up to 11 in a 2x4 cupboard,it works a treat for me.
is your light up high or what size footprint you trying to cover ?
I think you might be too quick to blame the led.

i used my 96x3 on a previous grow, room size is 2x3, but actual canopy of scrog was only about 1.8x2.2. and the grow came out amazing. i think i remember raising it a bit more than 12", something around 16-18", since it looked to me, like at 12", it wasnt getting good coverage.

however this grow, the whole 2x3 room is needed to be lit. the jamaican berry was in a corner, and i assumed that was the reason it wasnt getting enough light. as a matter of fact, both the jamaican berry, and a different auto that i had in the room together, both had the same issue of too much leaf matter, and whispy not compact buds.
maybe it really wasnt a problem with the lgiht.

im guessing, perhaps perhpas, just maybe it might be an issue with the nutes im giving.
i give them biobizz grow,bloom, and top max. in biobizzs schedule, the dose of grow gradually goes up throughout flower all the way to the end of grow. even though your supposed to take out N during flower, they told me the reason they continute giving grow, and making it higher doses throughout flower, is since biogrow has alot of other very important things to give to the plant other than just N.
it worked amazing on my photo plants last grow. but perhaps, it doesnt go good with autos.
ive read in all the auto instructions, to gradaullly cut out grow nutes during flower, and then completely towards end of flower.
however i was sticking to adding grow, according to biobizzs schedule. maybe thats the reason for too much leaf matter in those two auto strains i did.... and whispy buds.....

is it possible that it only caused problems with auto plants, but photos go good with that nute schedule?


i had tried cutting out the biogrow on the other auto plant i was doing during flower, but it started developing defeciencies, only the tip of the top of the bud was turning purple (its not a purple strain), which i read is a defeincy of N during flower when not in purple strains. so i resumed back to the regular biobizz nute schedule. its a shame they dont offer a schedule for autos.
 
If you haven't already, check out member Hazy and his auto Night Queen grow in the Dutch Passion forum, he uses the Bio Bizz nutes with great success, just the grow and bloom without the topmax. He adds the Grow part pretty much through the grow I think, but only a small amount. He also scrogs (canes) his plants rigorously and or practically snaps branches over to keep the canopy level and maximize the efficiency of his lights.

It's hard to make a nute schedule for autos because they all behave differently from strain to strain.

Your led panel is probably about the right size for your space, but you definitely want to lst/scrog to control vertical height. Light intensity fades quickly if the plants get tall. It sounds like the one panel worked well for you in that space on your previous grow. Was the temperature in the space higher that run? I do think it slowed your plants down some this time.

On a budget, you could save money by just adding a couple cfls or t5 fluoros to help sidelight (2700k or 3000k), help blend the spectrum with your led panel, and add a little heat to your space to keep temps above 70 during lights on.

Good luck, and post up some updated photos of your plants if you can. :peace:
 
Also, just sayin that the Jamaican superauto is supposed to get giant, so I'm not surprised it overgrew your space with additional plants in there as well. My Muay Thai took up like 5'x2' and even then was a hassle to keep it in check because I had a low ceiling. It yielded well but it's probably more practical to grow "normal" size plants in that space. Not being critical here, just sayin'. :baked:
 
If you haven't already, check out member Hazy and his auto Night Queen grow in the Dutch Passion forum, he uses the Bio Bizz nutes with great success, just the grow and bloom without the topmax. He adds the Grow part pretty much through the grow I think, but only a small amount. He also scrogs (canes) his plants rigorously and or practically snaps branches over to keep the canopy level and maximize the efficiency of his lights.

It's hard to make a nute schedule for autos because they all behave differently from strain to strain.

Your led panel is probably about the right size for your space, but you definitely want to lst/scrog to control vertical height. Light intensity fades quickly if the plants get tall. It sounds like the one panel worked well for you in that space on your previous grow. Was the temperature in the space higher that run? I do think it slowed your plants down some this time.

On a budget, you could save money by just adding a couple cfls or t5 fluoros to help sidelight (2700k or 3000k), help blend the spectrum with your led panel, and add a little heat to your space to keep temps above 70 during lights on.

Good luck, and post up some updated photos of your plants if you can. :peace:

thnks for the reply mediscrogs

i just took a look now at hazys grow. its really really long. i pm'd him with my quesiton about biobizz nutes. seemed the best way to learn about using them with autos is to just pm him directly.

ive been scroggin also, since my LED only has 3watt diodes. they seem to have very little pentration.

the led may be an ok size for my space. but from calculations, its more on the lower side.
the LED has a 180W draw power. room size is 6 square feet. that means 30w per sq feet.
i think i read that LEDs are best at 50W per sq foot, which is why i wanted to add more light, and why i was assuming that maybe the droopiness and extra leafiness was due to insufficient light.

however as you said, it might actually be due to other factors. i am starting to think that the jamaican berry just may have a droopy leaf nature. espceially since lighting is over optimal now that ive been using this 400w hps i borrowed. and even though all the other plants leaves will stretch out to the light. the jamaican berry will at best stand straiight, and maybe a littw out. while alot of the leaves slightly droop. they are super thin sativa leaves, which may also be casuing that...?

the 1 panel did give me a very potent grow. but the biggest fattest buds were the ones directly under the middle of the light. the ones that were on the sides had thinner buds. but also very potent (it may also be since i topped the outer ones twice since they were stretchier, so it could be that their buds were thinner since they had twice the amount of buds because they were topped twice.... i only did one grow with it so i cant say.
also my yeidls were pretty poor. i got average of 15g per plant. but hey were in 3 gal pots
but it was my first grow. and they got their fare share of stressing and mistakes (probably every mistake possible in the book ;) )
so i dont know if its fair to blame it on lack of light.

im happy to pay to buy another light, since i should for sure make the money back easily. adding double the amount of lights, should easily at least of the least cover for the cost of the extra light, and more ;)

ill try to put up some photos of the jb tommorow ;). shes been looking really great. also i defoliated all the extra leaf matter that was everywhere, so now u can actually see the buds.
theyve already doubled in width. and are super frosty and sticky. mosty made out of white hairs.

assuming that perhaps maybe the grow time was delayed and i didnt actually know to follow the breeders time, how would you know when his super autos are ready?
by percentage of hairs going brown like standard photo strains?
by looking at the triches like any other strain? or do autos start dying when theyre ready to be harvested?
 
Follow the breeder harvest window. Try a sample when you hit the middle of the window.
 
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