Indoor HELP drooping lower leaves...

[happyjoy]

hey there everyone! im new to this forum.
this is my second grow. ive got a few strains going. (2 autos (speed +, and JAMAICAN BERRY stitch), and 2 photos (maui waui by DUTCH PASSION, and durban wowie (durban poison/maui waui. my mix)

ill first give some specs to help me pinpoint the problem
the whole room is currently on 20/4.

LIGHTS: LED 96x3 marshydro
TEMPS: average 72F +/-
HUMIDITY: average 50-70%
MEDIUM: soil/perilite/vermiculite/cocoa. (added in some dolomite lime (2tblsp per gallon), and diamotecaus earth)
NUTES: biobizz pack

PLANTS ARE 4 weeks old. (except for durban wowi which is 2.5 weeks)
theyve been going pretty good in general. the jamacian berry is really outgrowing all of them. however, i seem to be having an issue with the lower leaves drooping recently.
so the problem is with the jamaican berry. notice in the photo that i topped her around a week ago. i know in general were not supposed to top autos, but since shes a super auto, and is supposed to go for 3 months and get pretty tall, i thought i might need to. (height of room is only around 5feet).
HERES THE PHOTO:

HERES PHOTO FROM TOP (notice leaves are standing good on top. also the messed up leaf due to bad topping skills on my part, but shell grow out )

i had a similiar problem with the other auto, but after i watered, it seemed to work itself out. however watering this one didnt do the trick. the drooping seemed to become a bit less maybe, but still drooping. im not sure if it needs more water, im also afraid of over watering. however im suspicious, that perhaps since im only watering it with around 1 litre each time, that perhaps the water isnt getting to the lowest roots... (the soil at bottom of pot is dry...)

im trying to be exteremly careful of over watering. its in a 5 gal container, and i was giving it about 1 ltre water every 3 or 4 days. waiting till the soil fills dry when i put my finger in up to 2nd knuckle. since its a small plant in a large container i dont wanna give it too much water.
the watering method ive been shooting for (due to the advice of biobizz since their nutes are organic and dont leave salts), is to never water the plant to run off. rather to constantly keep it a relative moisture level, without oversaturating the soil.

oh and heres some pics of the other plants:
(btw notice some yellow on lowering leaves, i was having mag def (because of LED) in the beggining before i added the dolomite lime into the soil, ive been treating with empsom salt foliar spray, and its taken care of problems on new growth, and fixed most of the old growth yellowing.


SPEED AUTO: week4

MAUI WAUI (nirvana photo)
week 4 of veg: (has been topped once)

DURBAN WAUWI (my corss between durban poison and maui w), week 2 of veg. very small but already on third node and topped

im also worrid about this durban wowie. she seems completely dwarfed. shes about 2.5 weeks old and only about 2.5 inches tall, but shes already got 3 full sets of leaves. but staying small. what could be the problem?

 

[surffreak]

Hey bud! Nice setup!
Your droopy plant looks ok to me, nice color and no obvious nute or ph problems, perhaps the lower leaves are not getting enough light and are bending down a bit to catch some, they will move as best they can to grab some radiation. It's certainly not too late to train that thing into a bush to get all the bud sites under the "sun". Also when budding starts during the first couple weeks the plant will stretch and droop it's leaves during each stretch period, sometimes happens up to 2 or 3 times a day.
As far as watering goes you do want to get the soil fully saturated each week and a half or so, but in between saturation it's ok to partly water with low volume if you're worried about the top layers being too dry. Having a big volume of soil definitely makes it harder to tell though.
Hope your mind is eased!

Ps looks like the Durban cross might be hungry!

 

[happyjoy]

thnks surffreak for the reply.
yeah i noticed also that the durban wowie is pretty light colored. but ive been feeding it the full nute requirment for biobizz nutes, so i doubt thats the issue.... im pretty stumped with this one

as far as the watering. i got a reply on a different forum, that my watering method is all wrong, by trying to water more often but at smaller intervals, that the water isnt properly saturating all the soil completly, so perhaps the lower roots are drying out....
as i mentioned, the soil at bottom of pot is copmletely dry. could that be perhaps whats cuasing the droopign with the jamaican berry?
am i wrong, following biobizz advice, by shooting for watering less each time, but more frequent, vs the dry/wet cycle....

i think my main issue, is that since autos are best growing in their final pot, so im stuck with a smalll plant in a 5gal cotainer, and i dont wanna flood it with water, so i water only 1 or 1.5 litre each time, but the water isnt filling the whole pot...

 

[bad dragon bzzz]

one of my biggest f ups early in my growing career was using vermiculite and watering a lil too much.ditched the vermiculite for next grow,and am still learning how to water.if you have a spare pot fill it with soil put it in the corner,it will be a good guide (weight) as to when to water your plants.
im a dipshit,but I hope someone comes along soon that can pinpoint your issue.
goodluck

 

[happyjoy]

thnks bro.
the soil is a ready made mixture special for cannabis from the grow shop. its supposedely some old school proven method from the dutch.
it seems that the issue might be that i havent been watering enough (the bottom of pot has been staying dry), and the roots are digging down there hoping for wtaer.
i just gave a full water and i guess ill know soon enough if she perks up.
im also thinking that this may be the reason for the stunted little durban maui. also she wasnt getting barely any water.
so much for being scared of overwatering ive been underwatering instead...

 

[bad dragon bzzz]

my 2nd f up was underwatering.
but i tend to asscociate droppy with overwatering and floppy with underwatering.yours look more droppy than floppy to me.
or make a thread in the live help for the experts to come have a looksie?

 

[happyjoy]

Hey bud! Nice setup!
Your pant looks ok to me, nice color and no obvious nute or ph problems, perhaps the lower leaves are not getting enough light and are bending down a bit to catch some, they will move as best they can to grab some radiation. It's certainly not too late to train that thing into a bush to get all the bud sites under the "sun". Also when budding starts during the first couple weeks the plant will stretch and droop it's leaves during each stretch period, sometimes happens up to 2 or 3 times a day.
As far as watering goes you do want to get the soil fully saturated each week and a half or so, but in between saturation it's ok to partly water with low volume if you're worried about the top layers being too dry. Having a big volume of soil definitely makes it harder to tell though.
Hope your mind is eased!

Ps looks like the Durban cross might be hungry!

hey there everyone. so i gave the jamaican berry a nice full watering. after a few hours she responded a bit and perked up a little. and even more the next day.
but still mostly her lowest leaves (the 3 fingered ones from the begining of grow), are still pretty droopy, also the set of leaves above them are a bit on the droopy side (the ones in the inside of the plant...). however her side shoots, and top seem to be ok. (no actual branches are drooping, just the ones with the big fan leaves. and even then, the upper fan leaves stand out straight most of the day, except certain hours where i noticed that they droop, must be after the stretch u told me about)

i donno, she just doesnt seem very happy. i moved her closer to the light. she was orgiionally 24" as reccomended for my LEDs, but since shes already gone into pre flower a while ago,(starting week 5 now), i guess i should have brought her closer to the light a while ago. i just didnt think about it, im not to used to autos yet....

i hope she turns out ok. she was doing so awesome, till i topped her...i figured it wouldnt hurt her since shes a super auto and has 3 months grow till harvest from seed, but guess i was wrong...

also her side shoots seem to short still to even try training. but shes bushing out alot in the inside, which also i have no control of.
i would consider tying her sideways so that the whole plant starts growing vertical, but i think that might stress her even more at this point, since shes already round like a bush.

 

[surffreak]

Hey man sorry I haven't been by in a bit.
Like i mentioned before the droopy leaves are likely due to not quite enough light getting to them. You said they are "inside the plant", there's a clue right off the bat.
The side shoots being short is exactly why you should train it, here's a pic of one of my current plants, she was trained at least than 2 weeks old, never topped, and grew into a big branchy lady. If you just pull the whole thing over sideways from the top, it will start to bush out on its own much faster and also give you more vertical space to work with.

So hearing you're on full strength nutes already, the Durban wowie sounds like it's actually being over fed a bit if you're already on full strength at that age. I know durban crosses are usually heavy feeders but they need to get going first. If it's still ok it may be fine now after adjusting, although I would flush it and only be giving 1/2 strength until it's a bit bigger. Do you have a ph meter? Might want to check the run off, extra nutes will lower the ph and cause yellowing like that too (along with plenty of other things)... just remember full strength as listed on the bottle is a lot of nutes

 

[happyjoy]

Thbks bro.
So u thinks its not too late to tie the Jamaican berry down to the side?
She's finally looking healthy and stretching just from this morning. I don't wanna throw her off.
I'll try to upload a new pic of her.

About the strength. Its not actually co sidered full strength, since I'm following biobozzs grow chart, which gradually builds up. For ex: week 1 is no grow nutes, just root juice,
Week 2,3 etc till flower is 2ml/PR litre water of grow nutes.
Starting flower: grow nutes gradually builds up each week.

So I'm assuming, that even though I'm following their guide exactly, they also don't start on full final strength....
Do u still think I should try starting with less in the future?
(The Durban wowie also just picked up today, so I donno of there's any reason in cutting back on the nutes now). Most important is that I'm watching closely for nutes burned tips.
.

I didn't know I need the yellowing lower leaves was also cause of over feeding...I figured it was due to the lack of mag due to the LEDs.... Which Epsom salt seems to have solved. But I won't be surprised if its frk. Something else

Good thing about BioBizz organics, is of u pretry such don't over add, and u use good neutral soil , the pH is always perfect. There's no salt buildup, and the soil buffers everything correctly.
Especially since I started adding dolomite lime..

 

[Joe383]

I just started using lime in my mix and it has made a huge difference. I use bottled water so it helped a lot and has cut the amount of cal/mag I have to use. Some of the problem with the yellowing on the lower leafs might be a little over fed. The plants look a little on the dark green side to me. I would go by weight of the pot to figure out how much to water. Water one tell you get a little run off so you have an idea of the weight when the pot is saturated and feel one that is as dry as you normally let them get before you water. Plants look pretty good though to me. I have just got in to modifying my soil as of my last grow and things are way better so far. I am on my second grow with modified soil and I could not be happier. Day 29 or 30 and have not fed yet. Will probably only be using my nutes for emergency's now.