Lighting Height restriction is a bummer.... how to remedy??

[Growtogrow]

Yup buddy you're right they're dirt cheap and they work excellently. Just as good as my 1000 watt hid
Right and we were comparing a 315 watt CMH to a 660 watt LED. So if by this guys comparison he should have used the 630 CMH light and compared to properly it still would have been 30 Watts less and penetration would have been out of this world. But when LEDs come down to a price that's not in the stratosphere I might look into getting another one. I've had the Sony's they work pretty good but they don't last. I've had my CMHs for 3 years replaced the bulbs twice that's one of my flower bulbs not my veggie bulbs. The veg bulbs seem to go on and on forever seems like.

Yes, the CMH is better price wise compared to a commercial LED fixture intended for c02 injection that is waterproofed. Plus the CMH had the worst penetration.

The ppfd is great for the cmh that is in a 2x2 at 30" but that doesn't help the OP lol. 30" for 800+ ppfd and you would still need two for a 4x4 however the edge ppfd is going to be bad still. The Fluence can be ran at 12 inches and have an average 900 ppfd all the way around.

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't grow with A CMH but compared to modern top bin diodes it is still inferior especially where low profile solutions are needed.

https://m.alibaba.com/product/62257411405/detail.html?spm=a2706.wapshop.0.0

Or even

Meijiu A8 650w Samsung Lm301h Horticulture Red Led Grow Light Waterproof Etl Dlc Lm301b Grow Lights 1000w 1200w - Buy Samsung Lm301h,Lm301b Grow Lights 1000w 1200w,650w Grow Light Product on Alibaba.com

Meijiu A8 650w Samsung Lm301h Horticulture Red Led Grow Light Waterproof Etl Dlc Lm301b Grow Lights 1000w 1200w - Buy Samsung Lm301h,Lm301b Grow Lights 1000w 1200w,650w Grow Light Product on Alibaba.com

m.alibaba.com

Watts can be had on the cheap with LEDs through DIY or Alibaba. Both of those lights have a 800+ average par all around a 4x4 around 12". You would need 2-4 315s in a 4x4 around 12" to match the aboce lights or get close but then the BTUs of the CMH are going to reduce the efficiency.

Technically commercial cultivators are using CMH predominantly because they are dirt cheap and work lol.

Like I said, I respect your preferences and I'm glad this has remained civil but modern top bin diodes trump CMH in performance and efficiency especially in strip configurations. At one point it was incredibly costly to get into blurples then it was expensive to get into cobs, and it's getting less expensive for pcb mounted diodes that offer full spectrum and high umols.

 

[Death The Cultivator]

Yup buddy you're right they're dirt cheap and they work excellently. Just as good as my 1000 watt hid
Right and we were comparing a 315 watt CMH to a 660 watt LED. So if by this guys comparison he should have used the 630 CMH light and compared to properly it still would have been 30 Watts less and penetration would have been out of this world. But when LEDs come down to a price that's not in the stratosphere I might look into getting another one. I've had the Sony's they work pretty good but they don't last. I've had my CMHs for 3 years replaced the bulbs twice that's one of my flower bulbs not my veggie bulbs. The veg bulbs seem to go on and on forever seems like.

Comparing a commercial c02 light lol. I linked cheaper lights that outperform a 630 CMH. It's about the ppfd and not the watts. LEDs generate less BTUs of heat than CMH so that translates to more photons hitting the plants rather than turning into hear.

Those light strips from Meiju are decently priced as somewhere to start though.

 

[Growtogrow]

Chem berry D from Dark Horse genetics. Under a single 315 CMH light.
This plant was harvested last spring in April. She gave me just over a pound about 530 G of quality AAA Smoke. I don't use any of the lower stuff but I cut it all away and throw it away. I only grow top quality AAA Bud as that's all I want and my clients too.
So I'm trying to say is that I would not want to invest any money into any other technology until this technology has proved to be inferior by par. And so far it's par Plus. I'm the kind of guy if ain't broken why try nfix it ??
So no one can sell me on LEDs especially not when they cost that much and do dont do any more.
I see you keep mentioning CO2.
I've not run CO2 with these lights. But HID lights and with LED lights yes. But they all have pretty much the same outcome with CO2. Co2 puts it back to the Jurassic Park days when there was a lot of CO2 on the planet. The only time to use Co2 is in veg during the growth cycle. It really doesn't have a lot of affect in flower. It's kind of a waste to use it after 2 or 3 weeks into flower.
I have about six or seven of the small full spectrum LEDs that I use for side lights and underneath the canopy from the floor up or to fill a dark spot when the plant needs it but I'll run them here and there. Their about 40 Watts a piece I think.
The LED strips that you're talking of. I think I have seen those and have red about them and maybe I even seen them on YouTube before. ? I watch a lot of stuff on growing microgreens and growing full Gardens and vertical Gardens in the house and outside. And I see a lot of those fellows using the LED light strips and t5 to grow the microgreens. And I would invest in those led strips to do that type of gardening. Pretty inexpensive easy to run and most of the stuff they're running in

vegetable garden. A lot of leafy vegetable they can just about grow on any light.

Comparing a commercial c02 light lol. I linked cheaper lights that outperform a 630 CMH. It's about the ppfd and not the watts. LEDs generate less BTUs of heat than CMH so that translates to more photons hitting the plants rather than turning into hear.

Those light strips from Meiju are decently priced as somewhere to start though.

 

[IfOnlyLegal]

Are you DIY inclined? Bridgelux EB gen 3 light strips would be my choice. Connect a meanwell type a driver and you would be good to go. You have a 4x4 area with no height that needs a strong PPFD. With the gen 3 you'll need around 480 watts. I've ran my gen 2 strips 6 inches from the canopy.

A light strip build whether you make it or Alibaba does is going to be your best choice for low profile. Fluence and many of the other low pro makers are going to be $1200 plus to cover a 4x4. DIY can do better for less than half the price.

Quantum boards are a nice choice as well but the larger ones have hot spots with the concentration of diodes and lesser ppfd at the edges.

What's your budget?

View attachment 1158510

I would love to put together a light system myself. After looking into the stripes you mentioned and others ive realized my budget is way too tight to build anything worth while. I do like the strips idea, seems that would almost eliminate the worry for hot spots, allowing me to pinch the gap between the canopy and lights.

My budget atm is around $250. After a few grows and some time saving money for a better system I definitely want some quality lights. With that budget do you suggest just going for a cheaper quantum?

Btw your girls are beautiful.

Thanks




View attachment 1158510
[/QUOTE]

Are you DIY inclined? Bridgelux EB gen 3 light strips would be my choice. Connect a meanwell type a driver and you would be good to go. You have a 4x4 area with no height that needs a strong PPFD. With the gen 3 you'll need around 480 watts. I've ran my gen 2 strips 6 inches from the canopy.

A light strip build whether you make it or Alibaba does is going to be your best choice for low profile. Fluence and many of the other low pro makers are going to be $1200 plus to cover a 4x4. DIY can do better for less than half the price.

Quantum boards are a nice choice as well but the larger ones have hot spots with the concentration of diodes and lesser ppfd at the edges.

What's your budget?

View attachment 1158510

 

[IfOnlyLegal]

Hi and welcome back to AFN. You aren't likely to find a friendlier or more helpful place to get information on growing from.

First, I suggest that you choose a light that permits the least distance you can find from the plants - all the major players give you specs on this. I suggest staying away from any light that has lenses over the LEDs - you do not want the light focused in a more concentrated cone for your purposes, you want it spread as widely as possible. I would be looking at a dimmable quantum board setup if I were you, and of course it will need to fit between your joists.

After sorting the light, your choices basically boil down to what you want to do to limit plant height. My off the cuffs are:

1. Choose strains known to be short and LST them aggresively to spread them out.

2. Consider topping, but check to see whether others have made it work with the strain you have in mind.

3. Heresy here I suppose, but you could consider photoperiod plants which offer more control over plant size, and permit more aggressive high stress training.

4. Do an aggressive SCROG to keep a lid on things.

5. Finally, consider using small pots, particularly low ones. You can grow a lot of bud in multiple small plants.

In any case, you can make it work. Even if the odd bud gets toasted there will be others that don't. The only thing worse than having to grow in a small space is not having anywhere to grow at all.

A lot of good points you bring up. I have pondered the idea of photoperiods, the amount of training I could do with them would almost entirely fix my problem. Im going to give the first few grows of autos a shot, I just love how fast they do their thing. I havnt given SCROG much thought, always thought that was more of a photo thing. I will need to look into that.

Thanks for your reply. As much as I wish I had more space to grow, like you said, its better than not having anywhere to grow at all.

 

[Death The Cultivator]

I would love to put together a light system myself. After looking into the stripes you mentioned and others ive realized my budget is way too tight to build anything worth while. I do like the strips idea, seems that would almost eliminate the worry for hot spots, allowing me to pinch the gap between the canopy and lights.

My budget atm is around $250. After a few grows and some time saving money for a better system I definitely want some quality lights. With that budget do you suggest just going for a cheaper quantum?

Btw your girls are beautiful.

Thanks




View attachment 1158510

[/QUOTE]

You're in a sticky situation brother. You could try building a 2x4 section with bridgelux eb3 2ft strips. The cost would be lower and still superior to a quantum board.

I suggest locally sourcing 1/8 aluminum flat bar for a frame and heatsink. Everything else besides the driver and strips can be sourced from Amazon or the hardware store.

DIY LED Strip Build Designs for Samsung H-Series, F-Series, Q-Series, and Bridgelux EB Gen.2 - LED Gardener

DIY LED strip builds have become very popular recently. The mid-power section of our forum is full of threads created by DIYers looking to build their own custom lights, and new builds and ideas are surfacing every day. If you don’t live somewhere where you have easy access to premade lights...

ledgardener.com

This is where I learned and if you need help just message me.

 

[Growtogrow]

Hey there FTF and y'all here on AFN

As I said in a above post the afn is a great motivator. It motivated me to research more about what I was talking about CMH lights and more what FTF was talkin about when it comes to LED lights and I found this professor Dr. Bruce Bugbee of the Utah State University.
and a company ( Apogee Instruments Inc. ) they've started that makes light sensors super duper sensors that cost a lot of money to measure light. but he's got a whole series of relevant up-to-date information about photons photosynthesis and the medical marijuana plant you can find him on YouTube and Google he's got a whole series of classes. it's very educational. All college stuff so it's super informative and it's very relevant with information as early as two weeks ago. So I suggest that anybody reads this that wants to know more about what they're lights are doing watch this guy watch what he's talking about super informative it's helps me understand LED lights a lot better and what they can and can't do right now it also makes me understand what my CMH light is doing right now and what it can't do and can do and what the sun does When I grow outside and what the medical marijuana plant cannabis or hemp needs. because they're one of the few colleges in America right now or universities that's got a license to study cannabis or hemp. So I suggest y'all give it a go and see what you can figure out really good stuff on there. I've already watched about 8 hours of them can't take too much fall asleep too much LOL
okay guys and gals I'm out
I hope this is helpful.:smoking:
happy growing from Growtogrow

Depending on what kind of light you have, you might be able to do away with the ratchet hangers which will give you a chunk more of vertical space. Also, if your light hangs from cables you might be able to use a zip tie and fasten the cables from the opposing sides together so that it hangs from one central point. Then you can just raise and lower it with a length of rope and secure it with a cleat. Kind of like this..

View attachment 1158669

Idk what CMH cost but I doubt it's cheaper than that cob I posted on previous page. To replace 2 50W COB cost around five dollar and last 50000h. 450W with heatsink, wall mount and lenses would cost max 200. It's a chinese streetlight for parks, greenhouse or somethin, real quality aluminium heatsink but the cob is real cheap. There are also cheaper ones than that. I don't care about a good light cause my heart is and will allways be for the outdoor. Indoor is a fun little lab experiment for me. So easy to upgrade lights later anyway, if it is nice to work with it's ok for me, passively cooled cobs plug n play for that price is nice, can't complain shit on my cheap chinese street light, but that is me!

Yes, the CMH is better price wise compared to a commercial LED fixture intended for c02 injection that is waterproofed. Plus the CMH had the worst penetration.

The ppfd is great for the cmh that is in a 2x2 at 30" but that doesn't help the OP lol. 30" for 800+ ppfd and you would still need two for a 4x4 however the edge ppfd is going to be bad still. The Fluence can be ran at 12 inches and have an average 900 ppfd all the way around.

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't grow with A CMH but compared to modern top bin diodes it is still inferior especially where low profile solutions are needed.

https://m.alibaba.com/product/62257411405/detail.html?spm=a2706.wapshop.0.0

Or even

Meijiu A8 650w Samsung Lm301h Horticulture Red Led Grow Light Waterproof Etl Dlc Lm301b Grow Lights 1000w 1200w - Buy Samsung Lm301h,Lm301b Grow Lights 1000w 1200w,650w Grow Light Product on Alibaba.com

Meijiu A8 650w Samsung Lm301h Horticulture Red Led Grow Light Waterproof Etl Dlc Lm301b Grow Lights 1000w 1200w - Buy Samsung Lm301h,Lm301b Grow Lights 1000w 1200w,650w Grow Light Product on Alibaba.com

m.alibaba.com

Watts can be had on the cheap with LEDs through DIY or Alibaba. Both of those lights have a 800+ average par all around a 4x4 around 12". You would need 2-4 315s in a 4x4 around 12" to match the aboce lights or get close but then the BTUs of the CMH are going to reduce the efficiency.

Technically commercial cultivators are using CMH predominantly because they are dirt cheap and work lol.

Like I said, I respect your preferences and I'm glad this has remained civil but modern top bin diodes trump CMH in performance and efficiency especially in strip configurations. At one point it was incredibly costly to get into blurples then it was expensive to get into cobs, and it's getting less expensive for pcb mounted diodes that offer full spectrum and high umols.

 

[Death The Cultivator]

Hey there FTF and y'all here on AFN

As I said in a above post the afn is a great motivator. It motivated me to research more about what I was talking about CMH lights and more what FTF was talkin about when it comes to LED lights and I found this professor Dr. Bruce Bugbee of the Utah State University.
and a company ( Apogee Instruments Inc. ) they've started that makes light sensors super duper sensors that cost a lot of money to measure light. but he's got a whole series of relevant up-to-date information about photons photosynthesis and the medical marijuana plant you can find him on YouTube and Google he's got a whole series of classes. it's very educational. All college stuff so it's super informative and it's very relevant with information as early as two weeks ago. So I suggest that anybody reads this that wants to know more about what they're lights are doing watch this guy watch what he's talking about super informative it's helps me understand LED lights a lot better and what they can and can't do right now it also makes me understand what my CMH light is doing right now and what it can't do and can do and what the sun does When I grow outside and what the medical marijuana plant cannabis or hemp needs. because they're one of the few colleges in America right now or universities that's got a license to study cannabis or hemp. So I suggest y'all give it a go and see what you can figure out really good stuff on there. I've already watched about 8 hours of them can't take too much fall asleep too much LOL
okay guys and gals I'm out
I hope this is helpful.:smoking:
happy growing from Growtogrow

That's a great resource. Thank you.

Fluence frequently does informative articles and seminars that incredibly informative.

I've rented an apogee mq500 from an aquarium store online for around $70. Fun to mess with and I'll eventually buy one.

 

[Growtogrow]

That's a great resource. Thank you.

Fluence frequently does informative articles and seminars that incredibly informative.

I've rented an apogee mq500 from an aquarium store online for around $70. Fun to mess with and I'll eventually buy one.

Well I'm glad you liked it.
I thought it was super informative myself. I couldn't get enough of it when I first started watching it. I kept watching it and watching it as it kept going one session after another. LOL.
I was like holy cow I got to quit LOL.
I can't wait to see the technology that comes out of this they sure are putting the hammer down on trying to figure out what makes these plants really grow.
I can't wait to see the outcome.

Have you heard of the new cannabinoid that they found? THCP... it's supposed to. I guess what they think anyways is that it's the cannabinoid that makes you get the munchies and the drowsiness and get you really super buzzed. I guess what I'm trying to say the higher end of the THC Spectrum Maybe.??. You know how some weed makes you high and some weed makes you feel like doing stuff and some weed just makes you feel like sitting down watching TV and eating everything. LOL They think it's got something to do with that sitting and eating everything. LoL
But they don't really know yet. I heard about THCP three or four weeks ago.