ok well I herd back from Jeremy @ GN. So he can get me 12 for $3288.00 that's 210 euro's/pc 40 off the already low sale price. But if I don't use any of my hid's he recommends using 8 of them over 2- 4x8 tables said 4 of them will cover a 4x8 table well and I will use 6-8 over my ebb-flo system I just got. It would be about 4300+shipping for 16 of them which might be doable. I will start saving now, already have 2200.00 put away for upgrades and have a buddy who will buy my 1000watters for 1000.00 in august so im pretty much there.. I think it will be an exciting switch. never though I would go with LED's but they have come a long way now and I am seeing plenty of good results from them, but still going into it that deep with 16 of them will be a huge investment in just lighting. If I do it this way the tables I would probably use photo sens. strains and do a sog method and maybe do some big auto's like TD in the ebb-flo.