Lighting Grow Northern Live Tech Talk

[MedGrower]

So awesome info about the diffuser! I have really fallen in love with HS1, I am getting another one as soon as I have saved enough.

Thank you all for such awesome work on this stuff!

 

[Xagor]

thx, great info!

 

[Xagor]

Hi,

Im currently reading through 10000 pages of led threads.


What I noticed is that on big forums e.g. RIU it seems that 90% ofthe people stopped using red/blue etc (atleast that’s what I think by the numberof threads) and just use a few warm white big single leds.



Can you tell more about your take on spectrum?


Could there be a GN all white version in the future,maybe for a smaller Budget, but still using your advanced cooling?

 

[GrowNorthern]

Hi,

Im currently reading through 10000 pages of led threads.


What I noticed is that on big forums e.g. RIU it seems that 90% ofthe people stopped using red/blue etc (atleast that’s what I think by the numberof threads) and just use a few warm white big single leds.



Can you tell more about your take on spectrum?


Could there be a GN all white version in the future,maybe for a smaller Budget, but still using your advanced cooling?

Before we look at the HS1 spectrum its important to understand the following:

How is white light produced with LED's?
White LED's are most commonly produced by putting a phosphor layer/plate over a semiconductor that produces blue or UV wavelengths. The photons emitted from the semiconductor enter the phosphor in a narrow range of short wavelengths, some pass direct though and others are absorbed and re-emitted in a broader range of a longer wavelength than the original input wavelength. This method offers much greater colour rendering and lower manufacturing costs than mixing red green and blue and therefore is the most common method of producing white LED's.

​

Why use white light instead of blue (460nm)?
Royal blue (460nm) LED’s produce a short and energetic wavelength of light and just like ultra violet light can cause skin damage through the interactions of high energy photons, large densities of 460nm photons cause negative effects in the form of photoinhibition in plants. Photoinhibition occurs when a density of these shorter more energetic wavelengths interact with chlorophyll and cause a series of reactions that inhibit photosynthesis system two. This is why using a white light with with longer, less energetic wavelengths spanning a wider band gap can provide similar transmission and efficiency through a plant's canopy whilst not decreasing the rate of photosynthesis; that is if the optical system is also well designed for homogeneous distribution.

Why are Blue/white LED's being used as the dominant spectrum in LED grow lights?
With most manufacturers (apart from Philips and Osram) Blue/white LED's have a much higher radiant efficiency in comparison to longer wavelength like Deep Red (660nm). They also carry more energy per photon which allows them to penetrate through foliage by the means of transmission, reflection and photon ejection from chlorophyll. Also and importantly for low cost fixtures, the LED efficiency droop occurs at a higher current for Blue LED's than to Red with most white and blue LED packages now able to run efficiently at 1A as opposed to 350-700mA for Deep Red making the cost per watt of white light compared to Deep Red much lower.

Why is the Holographic series 1 not using dominant white/blue spectrum?
First of all here is our current spectrum and part numbers

LXM3-PD01-0350	720mW		Deep Red	650-660nm	20pcs
LXML-PR02-1100	1120mW		Royal Blue	440-460nm	4pcs
LXW9-PW27		135	Warm white	2700k	4pcs
LXML-PWC2		235	Cool white	5650k	8pcs

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[TD="bgcolor: #6fa8dc"] Typical Radiometric output at 700ma (mW)
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LZ1-00R302	550mw		Far red	720-740nm	1

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[TD="bgcolor: #6fa8dc"] Typical Radiometric output at 700ma (mW)
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[TD="bgcolor: #6fa8dc"] Typical Luminous Flux at 700ma (lm)
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HS1 application
The HS1 was designed to be versatile; to be used horizontally and vertically to cover plants of different heights and sizes. the HS1 spectrum was developed initially for maximum light utilization through a 3D volume like an untrained flowering plant as well as producing desired plant morphology and promoting optimized plant health.

Explained use of 650-660nm and 720-740nm
The Philips rebel deep Red (650-660nm) is the most efficient wavelength for photosynthesis at top canopy level. With a full top canopy coverage (like in a SCROG) and a homogeneous optical distribution the Deep Red can be almost entirely utilized by green plants where a lot of white light isn't. We will continue to use Deep Red LED’s as unlike most LED's the Philips Rebel Deep Red LED has a high radiant efficiency of 43% compared to the 53% radiant efficiency of most Blue/white Rebel LED’s. The higher utilization of this wavelength by green plant makes the Deep Red the more efficient choice for the dominant wavelength at the similar radiant efficiency of blue and red Rebel LED’s. Most other Deep Red chips (e.g Epiled and Epistar) used is COB arrays and encapsulations have a radiant efficiency of 21% making a white LED with a significantly higher flux the smarter choice.

However using an additional combination of Deep red and Far Red as opposed to using just a pure white spectrum is still essential for higher quality plant growth and morphology.
-Higher chlorophyll concentrations in leaves
-optimal even nodal spacing which exposes more surface area and flowering sites
-More auxiliary off branching flowering sites
-High glucose/sugar production through optimal photosynthesis


Explained use of 450-460nm, 2700k and 5650k
The Cool White (5650K) , Warm White (2700K) and Royal Blue (450-460nm) transmit deeper through the foliage and provide light for photosynthesis at a lower canopy level at a high radiant efficiency, even though the utilization of this light is not as high as Deep Red the Deep Red does not reach the lower canopy in a useful wavelength for photosynthesis.
They are also essential for optimizing plant growth and health;
-plant organ movements in accordance to light
-optimizing bio-chemical and bio-physical reactions

Other application examples

-When we produce spectrum with the Philips rebel just for covering the top canopy of plants it would use a dominant Deep Red spectrum with supplementary Royal Blue and Far Red.

-When we produce a spectrum with the Philips rebel for SOG style grow it would be similar to the example above with a small amount of Deep Red swapped out for Cool White as there we be greater requirement of light transmission through the canopy.

-We currently produce pure white modules for bioreactors as with a biomass like Algae transmission through the culture is the optimal goal.

Will we ever produce a full white spectrum for horticulture/HS1?
In summary there are different spectrum's for working with different plants and cultures considering their requirements in a 2D and 3D volume respectively. Most of what we do with LED's in the Holographic series will be unique to other products because of the LEDs and optical system we use. Its unlikely we will be producing a pure white light for horticulture/HS1 unless there was very significant developments in the radiant efficiency and power density of Blue LED’s in comparison to high end Deep Red LED’s. Even then we would still use a small amount of Deep red and Far red to promote desired plant morphology.

 

[bad dragon bzzz]

i grow in a narrow space 50x125cms.have been putting off getting a hs1 till the narrow difusser is available.any estimates of time and price ? thansk

 

[User K]

i grow in a narrow space 50x125cms.have been putting off getting a hs1 till the narrow difusser is available.any estimates of time and price ? thansk

My old space was roughly the same size (50x100) and used 2 MS6 units and had great success, you should be golden with the HS1 but you could always wait for the diffuser. What is you height space?

 

[bad dragon bzzz]

I have a ton of height,but as the footprint of the standard hs1 is square i figure that's inefficient in my case.I realize my current and past leds have also had a square footprint to.so that's why i been holding off till the defussers are available for the hs1.

 

[Xagor]

I read through a lot of those "white led" threads.
What I think I realized is that is not especially about the white as colour itself, but about those COBs they use. Single large Leds that can run with e.g. 110W but they run them at e.g. 20W to reach seemingly insane efficiencies of 50% and more for a single chip that covers all wavelengths for a healthy plant with a lot of penetration. But its always DIY and I dont find any commercial panels with this. Maybe its a great opportunity, as only one type of led is used and only few are needed, it could maybe greatly reduce production costs. I dont know, but I read an interview with a plant biologist who said -greatest advancements regarding mj came from the growers. I dont have the abilities for this DIY, but if of those who can 90% now go for these large leds -then I want that too lol. Or do you think thats a bad idea for a commercial panel?

 

[bad dragon bzzz]

i grow in a narrow space 50x125cms.have been putting off getting a hs1 till the narrow difusser is available.any estimates of time and price ? thansk

Jeremy says the defussers should be available in a few weeks time,cost is likely to be £60-£70.free swap if buying the hs1.

 

[Corgy]

I have a question regarding the diffusers, over time they will get dusty/grimy...... What is recommended to clean the diffusers without damaging/scratching the surface?

I have looked at the GN and Crazy LED websites, and none the wiser. I assume that any scratching, opaqueness will have a detrimental effect and might focus light, like a magnifier...... And create hotspots....

Cleanliness surely has an impact on overall performance...

One reason for asking is that I have a couple of Biorb aquariums, and it is highlighted that they should never be placed in a position exposed to direct sunlight, as it might be a fire danger.

What material are the diffusers made of?

Just trying to cover all bases before being a how-heck-do-I-clean-the-"windows"-house-owner.....sounds pretty pathetic....... Nevertheless, I'm know to be a pathetic malingerer around cleaning devices and solvents..... According to She who rules man and the universe?