Flushing: The Myth that won't Die

[pop22]

Great response! And this is why, I'm sending emails to nutrient companies that I think will give me valid, or at least, honest answers. And eyes, I
have great respect for Robert Connell Clarke. I don't know if he has the time to answer the likes of me, but I have questions for him on that page/passage.

:smoking: pop', that's being a bit literalist with the terms synthetic and organic... I with you, they are all chemicals, but these terms simply distinguish their sourcing, or how they are made... Also agreed, ultimately to the plant, the nutrients end up getting absorbed in the same forms whether they came from organic or synthetic sources,... synthetic to me means man-made, manufactured,...organic generally means coming from actual organic/biologically derived sources... for those components that even truly qualify as being distinguishable as "organic"- -- a term badly abused out there!
Well, for my part, I'm not talking about total depletion, I'm referring to potentially excess amounts of accumulated nute elements,... I agree, the plant at the end of life is gathering up and using everything it can to maximize it's chances of reproducing successfully, hence the tapping out of the fan leaves, even though that process itself is energetically costly... I don't know what you mean by buds living on after the plant dies,.. (might be we see "live" and 'die" under different definitions- ).. you talking about post harvest "death throes" breakdown, etc.? Or do you mean that even if, say, the roots are wiped out, the buds can carry on for a while by using other internal resources? That's true enough, but I disagree with the "long time" part of it,.. such an event is of course a death sentence, but the effect isn't instantaneous (technically- LOL!)...
Flushing doesn't always FUBAR the pH, and when folks come to the Infirmary with roasted, badly overfert'ed, off pH plants, the only way to fix it fast enough to save them is to flush and purge the excesses... it has saved many plants brudda, honest! It's the lesser of evils often,... Usually I tell them to pH the water if needed, depending on the issue and their water source/chemistry, and sometimes to put a weak dose of nutes in the final pour to avoid triggering deficiencies,...
... Interesting deal with chelation,... I don't know either if the whole matrix surrounding the ionic element is taken in, or if it's disassembled at the point of contact,... again it goes to the "lock and key" specific mechanism by which select ions are recognized, bound and taken in,... for sure, the chelators are keeping the charge state of that ion the same, since they don't form actual chemical bonds with it,... some of those ions, especially the metals like Fe and Zn are rather reactive and could easily get tangled up in another formed compound before they get inside the cells,...
Mg sparks from smoking?? Oh, that's comedy there! ..like there's ground elemental Mg in there, and a bloody heat source hot enough to ignite it!

>> Kakarot- I can just picture that debate! Sniper is wiser than he looks.... never argue with your mentor! Cheers bro'...

>>

 

[pop22]

Really?? You haven't heard that bs before??? imagine trying to light 50 ppms of mag on fire......... even more hilarious!

:smoking: pop', that's being a bit literalist with the terms synthetic and organic... I with you, they are all chemicals, but these terms simply distinguish their sourcing, or how they are made... Also agreed, ultimately to the plant, the nutrients end up getting absorbed in the same forms whether they came from organic or synthetic sources,... synthetic to me means man-made, manufactured,...organic generally means coming from actual organic/biologically derived sources... for those components that even truly qualify as being distinguishable as "organic"- -- a term badly abused out there!
Well, for my part, I'm not talking about total depletion, I'm referring to potentially excess amounts of accumulated nute elements,... I agree, the plant at the end of life is gathering up and using everything it can to maximize it's chances of reproducing successfully, hence the tapping out of the fan leaves, even though that process itself is energetically costly... I don't know what you mean by buds living on after the plant dies,.. (might be we see "live" and 'die" under different definitions- ).. you talking about post harvest "death throes" breakdown, etc.? Or do you mean that even if, say, the roots are wiped out, the buds can carry on for a while by using other internal resources? That's true enough, but I disagree with the "long time" part of it,.. such an event is of course a death sentence, but the effect isn't instantaneous (technically- LOL!)...
Flushing doesn't always FUBAR the pH, and when folks come to the Infirmary with roasted, badly overfert'ed, off pH plants, the only way to fix it fast enough to save them is to flush and purge the excesses... it has saved many plants brudda, honest! It's the lesser of evils often,... Usually I tell them to pH the water if needed, depending on the issue and their water source/chemistry, and sometimes to put a weak dose of nutes in the final pour to avoid triggering deficiencies,...
... Interesting deal with chelation,... I don't know either if the whole matrix surrounding the ionic element is taken in, or if it's disassembled at the point of contact,... again it goes to the "lock and key" specific mechanism by which select ions are recognized, bound and taken in,... for sure, the chelators are keeping the charge state of that ion the same, since they don't form actual chemical bonds with it,... some of those ions, especially the metals like Fe and Zn are rather reactive and could easily get tangled up in another formed compound before they get inside the cells,...
Mg sparks from smoking?? Oh, that's comedy there! ..like there's ground elemental Mg in there, and a bloody heat source hot enough to ignite it!

>> Kakarot- I can just picture that debate! Sniper is wiser than he looks.... never argue with your mentor! Cheers bro'...

>>

 

[ClockworkOrange]

Sometime i did it some time i didnt, will think a little more about it, anyways, rep is given! Goord article

 

[FullDuplex]

So, what's cookin' in there FD? And how did them chili's turn out? I'm gleeting just thinking about them-

Ill point ya here mate so we dont mutter up the thread. come stop by.
https://www.autoflower.org/threads/my-platinum-adventure.56235/

 

[Waira]

oh yeah- Kakarot, noooo, not those chili's!! They are beyond stupid hot, Jolokia chili's are measured in the millions of Scoville units!! weapons grade, no exaggeration! Habaneros by comparison, 2-300,000... jalapenos a few to several thousand,... for me, it's the flavor, not so much the heat,.. Hab's are delish', but they're as hot as I can take, even just a little at a time... I had some Vindaloo a while back that about killed me, but I don't know what chili's Indian cuisine calls for..? The flavor of that Vindaloo was worth it,... after the shirt change!

Thanks pop22! I love that you're pursuing nute companies, just to see if they're gonna be straight with you, or barf product biased propaganda on you lap,... I hope you hear and share mate, it could be rich-- either way! ...A while back we had a great nute rep' here from Grow More, who was a straight shooter on things,...
....Mg fires in da bowl-- really, I haven't heard that! ...I grow outdoors, so next pop and snap on my bong hit, Ima take a closer look to see if I'm toking thrip meats or what?!! (oh damn, this Acapulco Gold is goofy potent stuff ..try her sometime pop', likely you smoked the real deal back in the '70's! I was still too young then, so it was just legend to me... A friend sent me a few beans, Barney's Farm breeder)...

 

[BII]

Regarding "buds living on after the plant dies," I presume that the plant (as a whole organism) dies when it is chopped down - no more fluids flowing between leaves and roots; much as chopping off an animal's head kills it. But cells and even tissues may still be alive within harvested plant material for who knows how long - a week or 2 or more?. If hydrated enough, a good portion of internal plant cells will likely still be alive (but not thriving).

Controlled, prolonged cell death may well be related to optimal curing. Curing is rarely ever talked about, mostly because it seems little is known about it. It obviously involves enzymatic metabolic breakdown of diverse plant materials. Needed enzymes and metabolic activity could come from dying cells and/or microorganisms (bacteria, fungi) colonizing the herbal material. Part of the reason there is a near universal preference for (another 'myth' needing to be busted?) slow drying could be the slow controlled death and release of plant cytoplasm (cell contents including enzymes) onto adjoining cells and tissues.

 

[Eyes on Fire]

I have had tall long thick stems stripped of flowers and everything still in the pot after trimming, and they continued to push water through the places the lopped off flower were at. LOL they were alive for a week or so,and cool it down and prolly push it two weeks or longer LOL.so i suppose it makes sense they're alive'ish( last gasp for the flowers LOL) until the water and all are fully depleted.maybe a day or two depending.but I could see that I suppose but I suppose its all relative too,sooo lol

 

[chxrxs]

ok, i've been growing for a year already, non-stop,will someone tell me how flushing with such amounts of water isn't instakilling ur plants? i mean flushing with water 3 times the amount of the pot means instachoke for ur plants, i once tried to flush as they do on those fancy videos and my plants just died within 2 hours, how do they do that? i've never flushed since then and just give it plain water at the end, works fine.

 

[pop22]

I'm currently doing some interesting research on manufactured plant nutrients. It will probably take me a couple of months to digest all the information. But initial reading has me believing that everyone is going to find this very interesting! So I've not more to say on this subject for now. When I do, it will hopefully be an eye opener.

But here's a little tidbit for you..........

The most used, non-organic chealating agent is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines!

I'm also seriously considering writing a book on ending garden myths. I've decided that my mission in my remaining life is dispelling as misinformation on this subject as I can. It is certainly needed!

 

[pop22]

its slow death, just like starving yourself. You ever hear of someone becoming healthy by starving........yeah, use up those stored nutrients......

ok, i've been growing for a year already, non-stop,will someone tell me how flushing with such amounts of water isn't instakilling ur plants? i mean flushing with water 3 times the amount of the pot means instachoke for ur plants, i once tried to flush as they do on those fancy videos and my plants just died within 2 hours, how do they do that? i've never flushed since then and just give it plain water at the end, works fine.